20th AFL Team

[The_Reaper]

Hence part of the deal would be a stadium. This scenario should sound familiar.

Why are people so into a NT team that they want to piss away a billion dollars on it?

There would be 10 cities more viable than Darwin without afl teams

 

[Teen Wolf]

Why are people so into a NT team that they want to piss away a billion dollars on it?

There would be 10 cities more viable than Darwin without afl teams

There are 0 viable cities. This will only change if a potential team secures an enormous amount of government funding. NT has a chance of doing that, albeit a slim one.

 

[The_Reaper]

There are 0 viable cities. This will only change if a potential team secures an enormous amount of government funding. NT has a chance of doing that, albeit a slim one.

Canberra - which will have a population of half a million people within decades - will be able to have a self sufficient team.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Canberra - which will have a population of half a million people within decades - will be able to have a self sufficient team.

Nonsense. Canberra would need government support, and this has even been acknowledged by the most vocal advocates of a Canberra team.

 

[The_Reaper]

Nonsense. Canberra would need government support, and this has even been acknowledged by the most vocal advocates of a Canberra team.

There is government support and there are the levels that NT and PNG require

 

[Teen Wolf]

There is government support and there are the levels that NT and PNG require

Two posts ago you were saying a Canberra team would be self-sufficient. Make up your mind.

 

[The_Reaper]

Two posts ago you were saying a Canberra team would be self-sufficient. Make up your mind.

Within time it will be.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Within time it will be.

Yeah we heard the same argument with Tasmania for decades, too. Eventually the realisation sunk in that sitting around and doing nothing wasn't going to result in a new team.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Nonsense. Canberra would need government support, and this has even been acknowledged by the most vocal advocates of a Canberra team.

But much, much, much less government support than the NT.

The ACT Government gives money to all of its national league teams. And it already gives $2.85m to the Giants. Just transferring that to a Canberra AFL team would be most of the government funding needed.

Whereas the NT team's only scoping report indicates a $15m annual funding gap.

The NT would need $15m per year, in perpetuity, plus a nearly-billion-dollar stadium.

Very different levels of government money required between those two options.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Within time it will be.

Exactly. A Canberra team could be pretty self-sufficient pretty early on. Which the NT never will be.

But, if the ACT Government is going to provide funding, as it does for all Canberra teams, then you're not going to say no to that.

 

[Teen Wolf]

But much, much, much less government support than the NT.

The ACT Government gives money to all of its national league teams. And it already gives $2.85m to the Giants. Just transferring that to a Canberra AFL team would be most of the government funding needed.

Whereas the NT team's only scoping report indicates a $15m annual funding gap.

The NT would need $15m per year, in perpetuity, plus a nearly-billion-dollar stadium.

Very different levels of government money required between those two options.

For the 100th time: the AFL doesn't want just a "we'll tip in a few million a year" kind of commitment from the incumbent government, because it's something a future government could easily withdraw from.

Once money is poured into a new stadium, ongoing support of the team is assured. That is the commitment the AFL wants. If this wasn't the case, Canberra would've already been announced as the 20th team.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Canberra - which will have a population of half a million people within decades - will be able to have a self sufficient team.

Seems this is a non starter due to the AFL believing Canberra is GWS territory. A bit of a shame.

 

[Canberra Pear]

For the 100th time: the AFL doesn't want just a "we'll tip in a few million a year" kind of commitment from the incumbent government, because it's something a future government could easily withdraw from.

So they don't want a team that will be nearly self-sufficient, in the largest market without a team, to get a ~$3m boost from its local government.

But they'd rather a team in an unviable city needing $15m in government funding forever?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Seems this is a non starter due to the AFL believing Canberra is GWS territory. A bit of a shame.

I think this has been overstated.

Back before a 19th team looked like a reality, Gil McLachlan called us Giants territory. And I think that perception has lingered.

But since Tasmania has become a reality, it's a different ballgame. And I've never once heard Andrew Dillon refer to us as Giants territory. In fact, he's even mentioned Canberra when talking about 20th team options.

 

[Teen Wolf]

So they don't want a team that will be nearly self-sufficient, in the largest market without a team, to get a ~$3m boost from its local government.

But they'd rather a team in an unviable city needing $15m in government funding forever?

They want the 20th team playing out of a brand new world class CBD stadium. The only reason you don't want to believe it is because you doubt Canberra's chances of getting the funding for that.

 

[Canberra Pear]

They want the 20th team playing out of a brand new world class CBD stadium. The only reason you don't want to believe it is because you doubt Canberra's chances of getting the funding for that.

The $15m has nothing to do with a brand new stadium.

The NT needs that funding every year PLUS a brand new stadium.

And you think the AFL would prefer that?

 

[Badger17]

Seems this is a non starter due to the AFL believing Canberra is GWS territory. A bit of a shame.

Ironically, the most sure-fire way to make sure that Canberra's commitment to GWS doesn't continue is to keep calling the ACT 'GWS territory'.

There're already quite a few people in Canberra who are disgruntled with the situation. At the moment it's vocal minority for sure, but it's growing, and the AFL officially overlooking Canberra for the 20th team because of GWS would see that sentiment explode.

 

[Coolangatta]

Call me skeptical but nobody in the media has the courage to call out the n.t as a terrible idea due to the cultural sensitivities around it. As it's a proposal that is seen to be helping the indigenous population up there.

Either that or they're completely un researched on the matter, but i think it's more likely the former. Even people like Eddie won't say it's a bad idea and all the same media people that said Tasmania was too small, all of a sudden think n.t is a great idea? I don't buy it.

Also the name the territory lightning? Sounds crap, also the colours proposed are the same as the giants. Another funny one is Demetriou is on the n.t taskforce pushing for it, the same guy that wouldn't let tassie in as CEO despite it having over double the population, because it wasn't financially sustainable enough? Clearly trying to rebuild his reputation as the good bloke that's now looking out for the little guy.

Get me on there, I’d trash NT as a viable option any day, and also trash South West WA as an option for team 20.

I’d make the case for Canberra (with notes from Canberra Pear) and say the only way it shouldn’t be them is if for some reason they don’t want it and don’t bid for it and then it only goes to Perth 3, the only other viable option, by default.

Hopefully someone will say it in the media one day and come prepared when they get met with the tired old “GWS needs Canberra” argument.

Edit: Trigger warning for North supporters as I’d also float the idea of them moving to Canberra if they’re willing.

 

[Badger17]

Call me skeptical but nobody in the media has the courage to call out the n.t as a terrible idea due to the cultural sensitivities around it. As it's a proposal that is seen to be helping the indigenous population up there.

There is definitely some truth to this. Similar happened with the PNG team in the NRL.

Anybody brave enough to stick their head above the parapet got hit with waves of baseless accusations of being racist, xenophobic, culturally insensitive, having a callous disregard for social issues in the pacific, not caring about the geopolitical impact, etc, etc, you name it, and pretty quickly most of the mainstream pundits just stopped criticising the idea for fear of the backlash.

5-10 years later and a kleptocratic government is being handed $600mil of Australian taxpayers dollars to run a footy team that's going to keep the Chinese away somehow, because doing otherwise would be racist or something...

I haven't seen anything quite as bad as some of what was happening on social media around the PNG team yet, but give it time. There's a good chance you'll start to see more of it if/when talks about the 20th team get more serious.

 

[Teen Wolf]

The $15m has nothing to do with a brand new stadium.

The NT needs that funding every year PLUS a brand new stadium.

And you think the AFL would prefer that?

Wrong. The funding gap has everything to do with the need for a new stadium.

And of course the AFL aren't going to turn down that offer from the government, should it eventuate.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Wrong. The funding gap has everything to do with the need for a new stadium.

What are you talking about? Their scoping report cited an annual $15m funding gap in operational costs. That's not to pay for the stadium, that's just to run the team.

And of course the AFL aren't going to turn down that offer from the government, should it eventuate.

So it's fine when it's government money for the NT, but not Canberra?

 

[Teen Wolf]

What are you talking about? Their scoping report cited an annual $15m funding gap in operational costs. That's not to pay for the stadium, that's just to run the team.

So it's fine when it's government money for the NT, but not Canberra?

Once a new stadium is built with taxpayer money, the government has a much stronger vested interest in making sure the team stays alive. This is what the AFL wants.

Not sure how I can make it any clearer for you.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Once a new stadium is built with taxpayer money, the government has a much stronger vested interest in making sure the team stays alive. This is what the AFL wants.

Not sure how I can make it any clearer for you.

At least a little clearer, please.

You said that Canberra wasn’t favourable as it would be getting almost $3 million a year, but the NT would be desirable because it’s needing $15m a year.

Are you implying that the $15m makes them too big to fail? And the government will just keep pumping more and more money into them to keep them afloat?

As opposed to the Canberra team that would just require a little government boost, and become less reliant as its population and economy continues to boom?

I’m clearly missing something, so apologies, I would like it a bit clearer.

 

[Badger17]

At least a little clearer, please.

You said that Canberra wasn’t favourable as it would be getting almost $3 million a year, but the NT would be desirable because it’s needing $15m a year.

Are you implying that the $15m makes them too big to fail? And the government will just keep pumping more and more money into them to keep them afloat?

As opposed to the Canberra team that would just require a little government boost, and become less reliant as its population and economy continues to boom?

I’m clearly missing something, so apologies, I would like it a bit clearer.

You're not missing anything...

 

[Walshawk]

Seems this is a non starter due to the AFL believing Canberra is GWS territory. A bit of a shame.

Canberra’s problem is that the AFL thinks that the Giants will never be viable in Western Sydney.