4 axed for 3rd test

[Mancey]

Someone should have gone all terry Wallace and done a facetious pp presentation, complete with bad clip art and empty promises.

Would have got the big tick

 

[Father Jack]

With all due respect, bullshit
Why would they be not expected to do as instructed?
In the AFL, there are all sorts of feedback and team meetings and theory work that is done, particularly doing per season
If its not done , you don't get far as simple as that
There is no difference

With all due respect, you don't drop players for minor infractions. It's as if the simpletons in charge think that there's only one way to assert their authority, and that's by abusing the power of team selection. Discipline them all you want, just make it proportional and not laughably ridiculous.

 

[Father Jack]

Someone should have gone all terry Wallace and done a facetious pp presentation, complete with bad clip art and empty promises.

Would have got the big tick

Mickey Arthur and Clarke would have knocked their chairs over as they leapt teary-eyed to their feet to applaud

 

[Glacier]

With all due respect, you don't drop players for minor infractions. It's as if the simpletons in charge think that there's only one way to assert their authority, and that's by abusing the power of team selection. Discipline them all you want, just make it proportional and not laughably ridiculous.

Fair point, however I think one needs to think about what was asked. The WHOLE squad bar 4 did what was asked and 4 didn't
Again, what makes them special?
If an AFL player does not attend a team meeting or a recovery session or briefing, more often than not they are nowadays suspended, and so they should be
If these players didn't see the need it relevance in doing what they were required to do then so be it, but do it anyway regardless
We all have things we have to do , every day of our lives and we don't like them
Regardless if you think what they were told to do was useful or not, that is irrelevant, the point is they thought they were better than the others
And that is why our cricket side are struggling

 

[Belnakor]

What did the management actually want to achieve from this exercise? Was it to get some valuable player feedback that would improve individual and team performance? Or set a pointless task hoping that some players wouldn't do it and the management could find some scapegoats for their "line in the sand" moment? Given that Clarke didn't ensure every player completed the task (including his VC) I suspect it was the latter.

I think its pretty clear it was just the straw that broke the camels back

 

[King Elvis]

What did the management actually want to achieve from this exercise? Was it to get some valuable player feedback that would improve individual and team performance? Or set a pointless task hoping that some players wouldn't do it and the management could find some scapegoats for their "line in the sand" moment? Given that Clarke didn't ensure every player completed the task (including his VC) I suspect it was the latter.

That's another part of this I genuinely don't understand.

Do the Captain and the Coach not talk to their players?

How is it possible that neither of them grabbed one of the guys and said, "Patto, come grab a coffee with me and go through those points I asked you about."

 

[Father Jack]

'Hey Watto, make sure you drop off that team review thing I asked for or you're dropped'.

I expect that would have done the trick.

 

[damochandler]

during the 99 world cup steve waugh and geoff marsh just got the team together for a chat about this same thing. why not have this team do that. i wonder if this is what arthur tried to get the south africans to do before he was shown the door

 

[Wicked Lester]

I've always been of the view that making the captain and coach selectors would end in tears and I've seen nothing to date to change my mind.

Having the captain as a selector in particular removes the captain from his role as player protector (watching his teammates backs) and elevates him to a school principal style role. It breeds either a team of sycophants and/or serious division.

For me, this is one of the most ridiculous decisions I've seen in my 40+ years of following cricket. If there was a need for a line in the sand moment then team management have chosen the wrong issue. It looks like a petty overreaction. If, however, as Clarke has argued today, its the result of an accumulation of events then I seriously hope he and Arthur haven't been selective in choosing their line in the sand moment just to make sure they targeted particular players.

It seems to me there's been a simmering tension between Clarke and Watson all summer. Whatever the background, Clarke's decision to publicly air (through his newspaper column) his doubts about Watson's position in the team back in late 2012 reflected poor judgement and was bound to breed ill feeling between the two. That he did so on several ocassions and writes not only as captain but also as selector simply compounds the fact.

Similarly, Watson's public musings about his desire to reclaim an openers spot (effectively at Cowan's expense) was poorly thought through.

We've ended up with a mess and have become a laughing stock. Leading a mediocre team through difficult times requires a deft touch and an ability to bring people together. At present, I have my doubts whether the team's leaders are cut from the right cloth for that task.

 

[damochandler]

i wonder what they have really been stood down for.

 

[MrKK]

So it's Clarke's responsibility to ensure that players (grown, well paid professional men) perform every small basic task given to them by coaches? Get real.

Pretty standard in every organisation I've worked in - senior management (Arthur) ask staff to do something outside their normal work and the middle managers (Clarke) ensure that all of their staff do it.

And you can't describe something as a small basic task if not completing it will result in a suspension.

 

[King Elvis]

G Smith > M Arthur.

 

[The King!]

if i were on this tour i would be wrapt to be stood down, better than being flogged by India.

Cricket has gone to ruin in this country, its just a joke now.

 

[courtjester]

Pretty standard in every organisation I've worked in - senior management (Arthur) ask staff to do something outside their normal work and the middle managers (Clarke) ensure that all of their staff do it.

And you can't describe something as a small basic task if not completing it will result in a suspension.

Clarke's not a middle manager. He's the Australian cricket captain. And the players aren't his "staff". They play in the team he captains. Clarke's job isn't to run around making sure adult men do a task that the coach has asked of them.

 

[Blueboiiz]

Flintoff is having a laugh about it on twitter. I did get embarrased

 

[Andrew Mc]

That's another part of this I genuinely don't understand.

Do the Captain and the Coach not talk to their players?

How is it possible that neither of them grabbed one of the guys and said, "Patto, come grab a coffee with me and go through those points I asked you about."

Perhaps they tried. We simply don't know. The alternative view is that: How is it possible that none of the four grabbed the coach/captain and said: "Micky, come grab a coffee with me - I have some ideas about the team and our performance".

 

[Underdog]

Clarke's not a middle manager. He's the Australian cricket captain. And the players aren't his "staff". They play in the team he captains. Clarke's job isn't to run around making sure adult men do a task that the coach has asked of them.

Team Leaders are still largely middle management...

 

[The_Reaper]

Perhaps they tried. We simply don't know. The alternative view is that: How is it possible that none of the four grabbed the coach/captain and said: "Micky, come grab a coffee with me - I have some ideas about the team and our performance".

Which apparently a few other players did.

The text was the minimal required response.

But nope Watto and Pattinson decide to take the weekend off.

 

[Whowants2know]

Maybe Mickey Arthur thought he could play spin better and is batting at 4 instead of Watson!!

 

[MrKK]

Clarke's not a middle manager. He's the Australian cricket captain. And the players aren't his "staff". They play in the team he captains. Clarke's job isn't to run around making sure adult men do a task that the coach has asked of them.

But if the task was so important and/or Clarke had an inkling (and he surely must have) that non-completion would result in player suspensions then wouldn't it be in his best interests to ensure that everyone did it? It makes sense to you that not once during those 6 days did he approach his VC like "Watto, have you done your feedback yet, because it's really important and as VC you need to set the example"? The only thing that makes sense to me is that this task was set up so some players would fail and that is exactly what Arthur and Clarke wanted.

 

[carnthemlions]

But if the task was so important and/or Clarke had an inkling (and he surely must have) that non-completion would result in player suspensions then wouldn't it be in his best interests to ensure that everyone did it? It makes sense to you that not once during those 6 days did he approach his VC like "Watto, have you done your feedback yet, because it's really important and as VC you need to set the example"? The only thing that makes sense to me is that this task was set up so some players would fail and that is exactly what Arthur and Clarke wanted.

wat???

 

[Caesar]

Can't believe people are actually defending the players here, or thinking that the punishment is OTT.

FTR I think all this self-reflection and wellness bullshit is pretty idiotic, but it also happens to be a fundamental part of elite professional sport these days, in every team. If you're a professional sportsman you have an obligation to fulfil reasonable requests by the coaching staff. To not do so indicates either unwarranted self-importance or laziness, neither of which is welcome in a professional sporting team. There is no way that the players could have perceived their non-compliance as acceptable - they were merely banking on their own profiles to protect them from harsh punishment.

Discipline is paramount in any team, and in a losing team doubly so. If these guys have repeatedly failed to obey reasonable instructions from the coaching staff then there is no real alternative - they need to be suspended.

You can maybe fault the captain or the coach for not getting this under control earlier, sure. Having to suspend a quarter of your squad for poor discipline is just embarrassing. But ultimately personal responsibility has to be taken by the individual players, who have clearly behaved in a way that is utterly disgraceful for so-called professional sportspeople.

 

[courtjester]

But if the task was so important and/or Clarke had an inkling (and he surely must have) that non-completion would result in player suspensions then wouldn't it be in his best interests to ensure that everyone did it? It makes sense to you that not once during those 6 days did he approach his VC like "Watto, have you done your feedback yet, because it's really important and as VC you need to set the example"? The only thing that makes sense to me is that this task was set up so some players would fail and that is exactly what Arthur and Clarke wanted.

What a load of shit. Watson is a grown man, the same age as Clarke. If Watson can't take responsibility for his own shit, really....

If the captain has to go to the VC and say "make sure you do this and set an example to the lads", then maybe the VC shouldn't be the VC...

 

[carnthemlions]

Look, it's obviously Michael Clarke's fault cuz i don't like him.

But seriously, how many people would get in trouble for not completing some sort of 'how can i perform better' feedback in their workplace these days? Quite a few, i suspect.
I wouldn't mind betting that this is indicative of deeper issues in the squad.
I keep coming back to the issue of watto openly gunning for cowan's place in the media. You just can't do that, particularly when you're supposed to be the vc.

 

[Xtreme]

Hilarious on all fronts, Australian cricket is in tatters and the more people realize it the better.