AFL Player 40: Zak Johnson

[VelvetSledge]

 

[ant555]

I take issue with the idea that Brad's only job is to win when his repeated message was for us to build sustained success rather than sugar hits of playing uncompetitive finals and dropping out the following year. Sustained success requires a lot of development and Brad plays a key role in that.

If we're not rebuilding, then we would have ripped Brad and the players to shreds for their performance on Friday. But we're not because we can read between the lines.

I tend to agree. I am not in the play all the kids boat but I will be disappointed if the likes of Johnson and Vigo do not get some games based on form and if Tsatas does not get some more games. I will say that the comments are not simply Brads job is to only win games. It is well known he has to develop the program as well. Just saying that Vozzo has also said it is Brads job to win games and be competitive. How they balance that out with bringing blokes through will be the key.

 

[Agronomus]

Were Hawthorn rebuilding at the time? No.

Good point

 

[Agronomus]

The only reason I'd wait is that we're a really young team at the moment and could end up getting smashed each week like Norf.

 

[Zach Package]

Moves like a Zak Butters

9

Zak Butters

Age

25

Ht

181cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.8

3star

D

14.7

4star

K

8.9

4star

HB

5.9

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

in a bigger frame, takes the game forward, nice long leg.

I think there is scope to go into the middle but could equally become a long kicking, overlapping defender.

Definitely something there

 

[BomberManU]

The only reason I'd wait is that we're a really young team at the moment and could end up getting smashed each week like Norf.

I'd usually agree with this, but I have a bad feeling about the rest of the season and I'd rather get players, who are close to selection or fill a need, in now.

 

[Milanista28]

The only reason I'd wait is that we're a really young team at the moment and could end up getting smashed each week like Norf.

I'm not sure getting belted every week is worse than this mid table wilderness we find ourselves in.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The only reason I'd wait is that we're a really young team at the moment and could end up getting smashed each week like Norf.

We aren't really that young, we were 25.7 average age this week. Goldstein doing a bit of heavy lifting there but 24 average age being young is purely a new thing. Melbourne were like 24 average when they won the flag. We have 4 players under 23 playing. This week Adelaide and Hawthorn had 7, Brisbane and Gold Coast had 6. If we can't develop players in the AFL, we are toast.

 

[Old Campaigner]

We aren't really that young, we were 25.7 average age this week. Goldstein doing a bit of heavy lifting there but 24 average age being young is purely a new thing. Melbourne were like 24 average when they won the flag. We have 4 players under 23 playing. This week Adelaide and Hawthorn had 7, Brisbane and Gold Coast had 6. If we can't develop players in the AFL, we are toast.

That’s why the average is a dumb metric and you should use the median instead

 

[Red Black and Blue]

That’s why the average is a dumb metric and you should use the median instead

Either way I don't think it matters, CBF working it out for all those teams but our median was 25 this weekend. We had 14 players over 24, 18 over 23.

While the list may be relatively young, the 22 is not.

 

[Zach Package]

Either way I don't think it matters, CBF working it out for all those teams but our median was 25 this weekend. We had 14 players over 24, 18 over 23.

While the list may be relatively young, the 22 is not.

By my count our 23 had 12 players under 25 on ANZAC day and Collingwood had 3

 

[Red Black and Blue]

By my count our 23 had 12 players under 25 on ANZAC day and Collingwood had 3

Sure, but since when is 25 the age of a senior player, it's older than the average Brownlow medal winner.

They are also the oldest team in the competition by a year over the second oldest list. They aren't rebuilding. We are supposed to be blooding kids.

 

[Zach Package]

Sure, but since when is 25 the age of a senior player, it's older than the average Brownlow medal winner.

They are also the oldest team in the competition by a year over the second oldest list. They aren't rebuilding. We are supposed to be blooding kids.

Collingwood's 2 youngest players on Anzac day were Ned Long and Nick Daicos, they're 22.

Saad El-Hawli and Jaxon Prior are mature aged reinforcements we have brought in to help strengthen the backbone of the list in the last 12 months, they're 23. What we regard as mature, is their youth.

We are blooding the kids, we played as many teenagers as North and Richmond on the weekend and went ok. I would argue we could have fielded 2 more and not really missed a beat.

 

[eth-dog]

Of the 6 sides we've put out we are 16th for average age:



And 15th for average games played:



And I'm pretty sure before the weekend we were bottom 2/3 for both.

 

[Mercurial89]

Collingwood's 2 youngest players on Anzac day were Ned Long and Nick Daicos, they're 22.

Saad El-Hawli and Jaxon Prior are mature aged reinforcements we have brought in to help strengthen the backbone of the list in the last 12 months, they're 23. What we regard as mature, is their youth.

We are blooding the kids, we played as many teenagers as North and Richmond on the weekend and went ok. I would argue we could have fielded 2 more and not really missed a beat.

I think what some may be after is a Bevo style of play the kids.
Move players that I think everyone agrees aren't the future out of the side and put the kids in the deep end.
If they are 2-3 weeks away or close, play them now.

 

[faible]

Sure, but since when is 25 the age of a senior player, it's older than the average Brownlow medal winner.

They are also the oldest team in the competition by a year over the second oldest list. They aren't rebuilding. We are supposed to be blooding kids.

Ages of teams that played last round:

HAW 25yr 5mth
WCE 24yr 11mth
CAR 26yr 2mth
GEE 26yr 6mth
GCS 25yr 0mth
SYD 25yr 11mth
GWS 26yr 1mth
WBD 25yr 8mth
PTA 25yr 2mth
NM 24yr 9mth
STK 25yr 10mth
BRI 26yr 8mth
FRE 24yr 11mth
ADE 25yr 6mth
COL 28yr 11mth
ESS 25yr 7mth

Under 25 is basically below the 'average' aged side, so it's a reasonable enough line to draw.

I'd say 25 is about the age where players should be reaching their primes

 

[ant555]

I think what some may be after is a Bevo style of play the kids.
Move players that I think everyone agrees aren't the future out of the side and put the kids in the deep end.
If they are 2-3 weeks away or close, play them now.

Bulldogs have done this by moving out a few players at the end of last season plus a lot of the players they have that have played under 30 games are actually in the 20-23 year old age group and have been on their list for 2/3/4 years. They are not pushing through big numbers of 18/19 year old players at any one time. Most have had to earn their stripes through the VFL.
There will be two telling things to watch IMO.
First up if Johnson and to a slightly lesser extent Visentini get games in the near future and also if Day-Wicks and Gerryn can maybe get a game in the back end of the year if they hold their form.
Secondly what they do at the end of the year. Realistically Laverde and Shiel should be in line to be moved on. They should be advertising Parish as gettable. Same with Nick Cox.
If we are looking at moving on 3 or so of these blokes at the end of the year then they are serious as far as list turnover goes.
Johnson really should be playing this week but 100% should be picked in the next 3 weeks based on form.

 

[Milanista28]

We are really hanging our hat on this young stuff aye?

Like as soon as we aren't young we'll be good for sure, just need to wait for that.

 

[bombreys]

The only reason I'd wait is that we're a really young team at the moment and could end up getting smashed each week like Norf.

We aren't that young right now. Every single player aged 24+ that's available is in the 22. We need to get to a stage at some point where the 22 is just selected based on form.

 

[ant555]

We aren't that young right now. Every single player aged 24+ that's available is in the 22. We need to get to a stage at some point where the 22 is just selected based on form.

We are young but we are not young. We have consistently been in the bottom 3 youngest sides. You can only compare what we put out compared to other sides. Yes Brad likes to leave them in the VFL a bit longer so Johnson will likely be a bit like Roberts and have to wait. Right now I my view is Johnson is ready for a few games. A few others are close but maybe not yet and they are a discussion for another thread. Tsatas seems to be the unlucky one but that is a discussion for his thread.

 

[jannissary]

 

[faible]

We are really hanging our hat on this young stuff aye?

Like as soon as we aren't young we'll be good for sure, just need to wait for that.

I think we have a few issues, of which being a younger side is just one of them.

I'm not a fan of rolling out a midfield with both Shiel and Setterfield it in while Tsatas plays VFL (or seemingly, doesn't) and the ruck situation is what it is, I'd like to see Visentini get a few runs at AFL level since I doubt Goldy can run out the season anyway, and guys like Johnson and ADW both look like they should feature at AFL level during the season.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Collingwood's 2 youngest players on Anzac day were Ned Long and Nick Daicos, they're 22.

Saad El-Hawli and Jaxon Prior are mature aged reinforcements we have brought in to help strengthen the backbone of the list in the last 12 months, they're 23. What we regard as mature, is their youth.

We are blooding the kids, we played as many teenagers as North and Richmond on the weekend and went ok. I would argue we could have fielded 2 more and not really missed a beat.

I don't consider Caddy, Roberts and Hobbs to be the kids in the context of needing to play senior players to protect kids. Because while they may be young, they are carrying the playing load of senior players, they are physically competing at senior standards or better than. The need to protect them, isn't there nor is the role actually being served by some senior players. Whose performances on average might not be terrible, are not serving any role that takes us closer to a flag other than to bide time for someone to bang the door down.

When building their systems back in the mid naughties; A lot of these perennially great teams would have 1-2 spots a week on rotation for kids to get blooded through on top of the kids already established.

Collingwood and Geelong were getting games in 15-17 players under 21 per year when down the bottom of the ladder. While list sizes are smaller now; last year we did 6. IMO This is just wildly insufficient for a team that is as bad as we are and has so few established players for the future.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

We aren't really that young, we were 25.7 average age this week. Goldstein doing a bit of heavy lifting there but 24 average age being young is purely a new thing. Melbourne were like 24 average when they won the flag. We have 4 players under 23 playing. This week Adelaide and Hawthorn had 7, Brisbane and Gold Coast had 6. If we can't develop players in the AFL, we are toast.

So what you're saying is that the mean is misleading and that we should be using the median or modal age instead?

 

[Zach Package]

I don't consider Caddy, Roberts and Hobbs to be the kids in the context of needing to play senior players to protect kids. Because while they may be young, they are carrying the playing load of senior players, they are physically competing at senior standards or better than. The need to protect them, isn't there nor is the role actually being served by some senior players. Whose performances on average might not be terrible, are not serving any role that takes us closer to a flag other than to bide time for someone to bang the door down.

When building their systems back in the mid naughties; A lot of these perennially great teams would have 1-2 spots a week on rotation for kids to get blooded through on top of the kids already established.

Collingwood and Geelong were getting games in 15-17 players under 21 per year when down the bottom of the ladder. While list sizes are smaller now; last year we did 6. IMO This is just wildly insufficient for a team that is as bad as we are and has so few established players for the future.

That part, I absolutely agree with. I can probably give you 20 examples in the last 4-5 years where there have been untried players that COULD have been tried at junctions where they were going well, so whether they end up making it or don't make it in the end is actually irrelevant to the actual discussion. We miss a trick by not blooding them when we had the chance and seeing whether they may surprise us.

Kako was the 3rd teenager I was referencing by the way, Hobbs is already 21.

 

[eth-dog]

We aren't that young right now. Every single player aged 24+ that's available is in the 22. We need to get to a stage at some point where the 22 is just selected based on form.

You've been itching to trot this out all season, haven't you?

Just ignore the exceptional circumstances that forced Goldy in the side and waiting for he or Lav not to be playing VFL to trot it out.