Current 4yo Boy Missing Yunta SA

[Wallace52]

the relationship between Josie and Shannon.

What do you mean? They’re married. I’m guessing their relationship is a marriage.



IMO

 

[Wallace52]

Yes there is a grave on Oak park from long ago, not sure if permission is still obtainable these days.

It’s from before Shannon’s father purchased the property.

IMO

 

[shorsky]

According to the DM reporter Jonica Bray, Gus’ mum, baby brother and dad left the area some time ago and their whereabouts are unknown

I hadn’t read this. How does Jonica know this when she’s also reported that Josh’s friends are worried about him because he’s disappeared!

 

[Kurve]

As coincidence would have it, I've been away in South Australia and checked out the terrain near Yunta, of course I didn't go to the Oak Park property but it's pretty much the same all through that area.

Since I was there, took a little walk.

The flies are small, sticky and thick, you can see for miles and looking at the foliage from the ground is very different to drone or video footage. The smaller stuff closer to the ground and clumpy is not dense enough to conceal a child but as they get bigger or bushy enough to hide a four year old, they start to grow more like little trees with skinny bare limbs from the base, so they're no good either.

Looked to be real easy to spot a child, from a long way away actually.

As we walked out it seemed Gus probably wasn't there or they'd have found him.

No dogs or signs of, there were enough roadkilled roos to attract them but no wedgetails and the only bird of prey I spotted was a hawk.

 

[Underarrest_]

What do you mean? They’re married. I’m guessing their relationship is a marriage.



IMO

I mean the dynamics of the relationship, healthy/unhealthy.

 

[Curious Clues]

I hadn’t read this. How does Jonica know this when she’s also reported that Josh’s friends are worried about him because he’s disappeared!

Yes I’m guessing that’s the same as whereabouts unknown by their friends. Apparently Jonica of Daily Mail has a new article out today that is geoblocked to Australia. Says something about her door knocking many locals properties to ask when was the last time they had seen Gus. (Fair question of a journo to ask imo) I think she’s perhaps attempting to find out if anyone independent had seen Gus since that photo of him was allegedly taken at the school in March.

 

[Cataholic]

Yes I’m guessing that’s the same as whereabouts unknown by their friends. Apparently Jonica of Daily Mail has a new article out today that is geoblocked to Australia. Says something about her door knocking many locals properties to ask when was the last time they had seen Gus. (Fair question of an journo to ask imo) I think she’s perhaps attempting to find out if anyone independent had seen Gus since that photo of him was taken at the school in March.

It makes sense, given they've found absolutely nothing to support the presence and disappearance of Gus from the homestead on the day in question.

Roll it back to the last time that proof of life can be verified then try and take it forward from there.

Imo.

 

[Lady O]

As coincidence would have it, I've been away in South Australia and checked out the terrain near Yunta, of course I didn't go to the Oak Park property but it's pretty much the same all through that area.

Since I was there, took a little walk.

The flies are small, sticky and thick, you can see for miles and looking at the foliage from the ground is very different to drone or video footage. The smaller stuff closer to the ground and clumpy is not dense enough to conceal a child but as they get bigger or bushy enough to hide a four year old, they start to grow more like little trees with skinny bare limbs from the base, so they're no good either.

Looked to be real easy to spot a child, from a long way away actually.

As we walked out it seemed Gus probably wasn't there or they'd have found him.

No dogs or signs of, there were enough roadkilled roos to attract them but no wedgetails and the only bird of prey I spotted was a hawk.

My money's still on a dam. If not on Oak Park, then somewhere close by. I wonder if Gus had a pet dog. Kids have been known to go exploring with their dog. I guess we would have heard if he had, unless the dog came home before Gus was found missing.

 

[31550]

My money's still on a dam. If not on Oak Park, then somewhere close by. I wonder if Gus had a pet dog. Kids have been known to go exploring with their dog. I guess we would have heard if he had, unless the dog came home before Gus was found missing.

How does this fit with no footprints, no tracks, no scent? Wouldn't entering a dam leave some sort of print or track? There's a finite number of deep enough dams nearby, searchable by drone first, and then by foot with or without dogs. Bodies float, unless weighed down. Not saying it's impossible but surely all possible dams have been examined by now?

 

[Cataholic]

How does this fit with no footprints, no tracks, no scent? Wouldn't entering a dam leave some sort of print or track? There's a finite number of deep enough dams nearby, searchable by drone first, and then by foot with or without dogs. Bodies float, unless weighed down. Not saying it's impossible but surely all possible dams have been examined by now?

And presumably thoroughly searched by police divers.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

We are told Gus was last seen at 5pm, discovered missing at 5.30pm and authorities called 3hrs later, so around 8.30pm.
How far can a 4yo walk in that time, especially once night falls?

Lets assume he averages 2.5km/hr for 3.5hrs, so 8-9km, thats a fair distance from the homestead, but it also assumes he's walking in a straight line.
Geography, obstacles, fencelines and simple disorientation would all prevent a 4yo walking 8km in a straight line in the dark.

If he wandered off, even if he followed a pet dog etc., I doubt he'd have got more than 3 or 4 k's and should therefore have been found early in the search.

 

[Cataholic]

We are told Gus was last seen at 5pm, discovered missing at 5.30pm and authorities called 3hrs later, so around 8.30pm.
How far can a 4yo walk in that time, especially once night falls?

Lets assume he averages 2.5km/hr for 3.5hrs, so 8-9km, thats a fair distance from the homestead, but it also assumes he's walking in a straight line.
Geography, obstacles, fencelines and simple disorientation would all prevent a 4yo walking 8km in a straight line in the dark.

If he wandered off, even if he followed a pet dog etc., I doubt he'd have got more than 3 or 4 k's and should therefore have been found early in the search.

Try as I might I can't even get my head around the concept of a grandparent leaving a 4yo alone, unsighted, for a full 30 minutes, whether they're playing outside or not.

I also keep coming back to the family's alleged description of Gus as 'a shy boy, not known to wander'.

A 'shy' boy doesn't strike me as one who summons the courage and will to wander away from his sense of security formed by the presence of the home and grandparent, and in doing so contradicts the family's assessment of him.

Imo.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Try as I might I can't even get my head around the concept of a grandparent leaving a 4yo alone, unsighted, for a full 30 minutes, whether they're playing outside or not.

I also keep coming back to the family's alleged description of Gus as 'a shy boy, not known to wander'.

A 'shy' boy doesn't strike me as one who summons the courage and will to wander away from his sense of security formed by the presence of the home and grandparent, and in doing so contradicts the family's assessment of him.

Imo.

Agreed, but to be honest, the story about him playing outside alone at that time of day leads me to believe that this part of the narrative has truth to it.

If you were going to make up a scenario where a 4yo wanders off so far that he is not found, it would be more believable to happen earlier in the day when he'd have hours of light on his side than just before dark when he's more likely to slow or stop much closer to home.

Its why I started thinking about how he could go from legitimately playing out the front to gone without a trace in 30 minutes.
When you consider that there is a vehicle/motorbikes out tending sheep that with light falling will be returning around that time, a collision of sorts is quite plausible.
Diminished visibility, noisy engine/s, unexpected child out on the roadway to greet Mum/Grandma, a recipe for disaster.

 

[Curious Clues]

Try as I might I can't even get my head around the concept of a grandparent leaving a 4yo alone, unsighted, for a full 30 minutes, whether they're playing outside or not.

I also keep coming back to the family's alleged description of Gus as 'a shy boy, not known to wander'.

A 'shy' boy doesn't strike me as one who summons the courage and will to wander away from his sense of security formed by the presence of the home and grandparent, and in doing so contradicts the family's assessment of him.

Imo.

Also leaving a 1 year old and 4 year with a grandmother possibly in her 70’s could be a bit much imo. Especially at witching hour.

 

[31550]

Agreed, but to be honest, the story about him playing outside alone at that time of day leads me to believe that this part of the narrative has truth to it.

If you were going to make up a scenario where a 4yo wanders off so far that he is not found, it would be more believable to happen earlier in the day when he'd have hours of light on his side than just before dark when he's more likely to slow or stop much closer to home.

Its why I started thinking about how he could go from legitimately playing out the front to gone without a trace in 30 minutes.
When you consider that there is a vehicle/motorbikes out tending sheep that with light falling will be returning around that time, a collision of sorts is quite plausible.
Diminished visibility, noisy engine/s, unexpected child out on the roadway to greet Mum/Grandma, a recipe for disaster.

If you are inventing a narrative to cover up something sinister, you want to make it as difficult as possible for police to find relevant evidence, but also have a good cover story which does not suggest any wrongdoing, e.g. neglectful actions. So you want to minimise the time between 'going missing' and reporting to police. But you don't want police turning up straight away and having hours of daylight to search.
So, 5pm to 5.30pm is the 'perfect time for the perfect crime'. You call police as soon as you can't find him. You only left him alone for a little while. But it's getting dark, and by the time police arrived it will be completely dark.
All hypothetically of course.

 

[zedx]

Try as I might I can't even get my head around the concept of a grandparent leaving a 4yo alone, unsighted, for a full 30 minutes, whether they're playing outside or not.

I also keep coming back to the family's alleged description of Gus as 'a shy boy, not known to wander'.

A 'shy' boy doesn't strike me as one who summons the courage and will to wander away from his sense of security formed by the presence of the home and grandparent, and in doing so contradicts the family's assessment of him.

Imo.

IMO, although 30 minutes may seem too long to leave a small child alone to most of us, things do work differently on farms. And in the grand scheme of things, its not like she left him alone for hours, she just left him alone for a tad longer than she probably should have. I think most of us are probably guilty of similar, getting caught up in some chore and then realizing 'Shoot I better check on so and so.' And who knows he could have 'wandered off in the first five minutes, so I think we need to stop bagging the Grandparent for a 15 minute indiscretion, which she will regret for the rest of her life.
As for being shy and not 'known' to wander, kids have an unpredictable nature, as do teenagers and adults. How many times have we said 'I never thought in a million years they would do that!' (when we find out someone is a abuser, pedo, thief, alcoholic, drug abuser etc ) or 'My teenager would never be involved in such behavior!' only to find out they were actually the ring leader.
You cannot 100% predict anyone or anything's behavior or reaction to anything.

 

[Underarrest_]

Some media reports say that Gus was a pre schooler.
Was the photo that was released taken at pre school.
This might narrow a timeframe down.
First day of school holidays might be relevant, out of normal routine.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

If you are inventing a narrative to cover up something sinister, you want to make it as difficult as possible for police to find relevant evidence, but also have a good cover story which does not suggest any wrongdoing, e.g. neglectful actions. So you want to minimise the time between 'going missing' and reporting to police. But you don't want police turning up straight away and having hours of daylight to search.
So, 5pm to 5.30pm is the 'perfect time for the perfect crime'. You call police as soon as you can't find him. You only left him alone for a little while. But it's getting dark, and by the time police arrived it will be completely dark.
All hypothetically of course.

Yes, but then you go back to asking how far will/can a 4yo travel in the dark, not far so should be easy to find would be my first thoughts, which is not the conclusion you want anyone to come to if you want them to believe he's wandered beyond the search scope.

That a 4yo couldnt be found within a few km's by mid morning would put up red flags I reckon, especially with no trace on the ground.

 

[Underarrest_]

It was taken at a school orientation day.

IMO

Fair enough. I’m from a different state. School orientation day is held later in the year so children can familiarise themselves with the environment.

 

[Cataholic]

IMO, although 30 minutes may seem too long to leave a small child alone to most of us, things do work differently on farms. And in the grand scheme of things, its not like she left him alone for hours, she just left him alone for a tad longer than she probably should have. I think most of us are probably guilty of similar, getting caught up in some chore and then realizing 'Shoot I better check on so and so.' And who knows he could have 'wandered off in the first five minutes, so I think we need to stop bagging the Grandparent for a 15 minute indiscretion, which she will regret for the rest of her life.
As for being shy and not 'known' to wander, kids have an unpredictable nature, as do teenagers and adults. How many times have we said 'I never thought in a million years they would do that!' (when we find out someone is a abuser, pedo, thief, alcoholic, drug abuser etc ) or 'My teenager would never be involved in such behavior!' only to find out they were actually the ring leader.
You cannot 100% predict anyone or anything's behavior or reaction to anything.

True, but this is a 4yo, not an older kid, and the natural tendency is to keep a closer eye on such a young child, even on a farm, I would've thought.

 

[31550]

Yes, but then you go back to asking how far will/can a 4yo travel in the dark, not far so should be easy to find would be my first thoughts, which is not the conclusion you want anyone to come to if you want them to believe he's wandered beyond the search scope.

That a 4yo couldnt be found within a few km's by mid morning would put up red flags I reckon, especially with no trace on the ground.

What would be a more 'perfect time, then?

Introducing a whole night, and limiting the opportunity to mount a full-scale search introduced a range of other alternative scenarios - further to wander without being seen, animal and human intervention, misadventure, ....

 

[Underarrest_]

Agreed, but to be honest, the story about him playing outside alone at that time of day leads me to believe that this part of the narrative has truth to it.

If you were going to make up a scenario where a 4yo wanders off so far that he is not found, it would be more believable to happen earlier in the day when he'd have hours of light on his side than just before dark when he's more likely to slow or stop much closer to home.

Its why I started thinking about how he could go from legitimately playing out the front to gone without a trace in 30 minutes.
When you consider that there is a vehicle/motorbikes out tending sheep that with light falling will be returning around that time, a collision of sorts is quite plausible.
Diminished visibility, noisy engine/s, unexpected child out on the roadway to greet Mum/Grandma, a recipe for disaster.

Could be part truth to the story.
The Grandmother could have said Gus was inside the house watching tv or playing in a room while she was busy in another room and Gus slipped out the door unnoticed instead of saying he was left outside for half hour.

 

[31550]

Could be part truth to the story.
The Grandmother could have said Gus was inside the house watching tv or playing in a room while she was busy in another room and Gus slipped out the door unnoticed instead of saying he was left outside for half hour.

I think the playing in the dirt like (at some time) is most likely true. There needs to be a narrative which shows why Gus may have been left unattended, but also that the carer in charge knew where he was. It's plausible, but also convenient.

I also think the 'looked for him at 5.30' is plausible - that's the time it would be starting to get dark, work is finished for the day, time to get the little kids washed, fed and ready for bed (given the younger sibling's age).
What prompted the grandparent to 'look’ at 5.30? Was that when the other adults returned home? Probably didn't 'look' before then IMO.

What I have doubt about is the 'last seen at 5pm' claim. How do they know it was 5pm? Why go to the dirt pile at 5pm, and not bring Gus back then? What was the normal routine?
I think it's quite possible that Gus was forgotten about for several hours at least, and this negligence has been mitigated by the '5pm sighting' narrative. I just think the 5pm thing is very 'convenient'.

 

[Wallace52]

As coincidence would have it, I've been away in South Australia and checked out the terrain near Yunta, of course I didn't go to the Oak Park property but it's pretty much the same all through that area.

Since I was there, took a little walk.

The flies are small, sticky and thick, you can see for miles and looking at the foliage from the ground is very different to drone or video footage. The smaller stuff closer to the ground and clumpy is not dense enough to conceal a child but as they get bigger or bushy enough to hide a four year old, they start to grow more like little trees with skinny bare limbs from the base, so they're no good either.

Looked to be real easy to spot a child, from a long way away actually.

As we walked out it seemed Gus probably wasn't there or they'd have found him.

No dogs or signs of, there were enough roadkilled roos to attract them but no wedgetails and the only bird of prey I spotted was a hawk.

Did you do a door knock, Kurve ?

 

[Curious Clues]

It hasn’t been said that it was unusual for Gus to be left outside alone for 30 minutes. For all we know, Gus might have been the type of child who played outside alone all day every day for hours on end and just came back in at dinner time. Like in the olden deliverance days. Can I hear a banjo playing?
I doubt anyone under the spotlight would honestly admit to an overly free range style of parenting / grand parenting though would they?