Ablett, Jr or Sr??

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Ok, I know this poll must have been done before but I couldn't find it so I thought I would start a new one.
Who is the better footballer in your opinion?
To me Ablett Jr is the best player I have ever seen play the game. I am 29 and only really got to see the end of his Sr's career but for sheer dominance and a complete inability to stop a player from having an impact on a game, Ablett Jr has no peer, ever.
I've seen Sr, Carey, Voss, Hird, Lockett, Dunstall, Buckley, McLeod, all of the absolute champions of the last twenty to thirty years, and they all have had days, weeks where they were beaten or played poorly, it just doesn't happen to Ablett Jr.
I am extremely confident that by the time he is 30, Ablett Jr will move to the forward line on a more permanent basis and kick mountains of goals, and then the old timers who think it is riduclous to compare the two will start to take notice.
Ablett Jr does not have a weakness in his game. The perfect small sized footballer.

 

[Old Skool]

Senior, very comfortably.

I fail to understand your reasoning. Junior is not even a match winner for starters.

Gary Jnr wouldn't be in the best 10 players I have ever seen, much less the best.

 

[The Bomb]

Ablett snr is the best player I have seen, when he was on he could beat 2 or 3 players time and time again. absolute freek.

Ablett Jnr and G Williams are the best midfielders I have seen.

OldSchool, Ablett Jnr is not a match winner are you kidding or what?
seriously he is the games best player, just because he is in a team which is full of 18 - 19yr olds does not mean he is not a match winner.
Not in your top 10 I could only name

best forwards
Ablett Snr
Carey
lil gap
Lockett
Dunstall

Best mids
Williams / Ablett Jnr
bit of a gap
Voss
Buckley

Utility
Hird

Even then I still think Ablett jnr has become a better player then even Hird was.

 

[Old Skool]

He's a very good player, no doubt, but his influence is overinflated with cheap statistical one-two possessions.

I'd have to assume that anyone who voted for junior is less than 30-35 years old. There is no other rational explanation.

 

[donbooger]

Still time for junior, especially if he plays as a forward late in his career.

Everyone is bias towards goals and forwards and he will be seen as a better player even though he will likely not be as good at the time.

I dont believe Snr was superior enough over Jnr that he cant be reeled in with the many years Jnr has left, I think both will be top 10 of all time.

 

[The Bomb]

Still time for junior, especially if he plays as a forward late in his career.

Everyone is bias towards goals and forwards and he will be seen as a better player even though he will likely not be as good at the time.

I dont believe Snr was superior enough over Jnr that he cant be reeled in with the many years Jnr has left, I think both will be top 10 of all time.

yep in my time

Ablett snr best player only Carey rivals snr, but just behind in my opinion
Ablett jnr best mid, no player can just get 40 possession game and a couple of goals like he does.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Senior, very comfortably.

I fail to understand your reasoning. Junior is not even a match winner for starters.

Gary Jnr wouldn't be in the best 10 players I have ever seen, much less the best.

Unbelievable.

How many goals do you think Snr or even Wayne Carey would kick playing up forward for the Suns?

 

[Old Skool]

yep in my time

Ablett snr best player only Carey rivals snr, but just behind in my opinion
Ablett jnr best mid, no player can just get 40 possession game and a couple of goals like he does.

Get back to me when junior kicks 14 goals off the wing.

Not 4.

14.

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

As good as jnr is, easily the best player in the league his old man was a freak and was a fair margin better.

 

[The Bomb]

Get back to me when junior kicks 14 goals off the wing.

Not 4.

14.

What are you on about?
Read my post again, Pretty simple to understand what I was saying.

 

[Ham109]

the one with hair.

 

[thecatattack]

LOL Ablett Sr easily.

 

[BlueJet]

LOL Ablett Sr easily.

This.
Jr is obviously a gun but his dad was streets ahead.

 

[footscore]

Jnr is not far behind if we are talking about the ability to influence a games final result as his averages for the midfield are now a new standard of excellence.
He's literally pushing those beside him (including Judd) to keep up, which is quite awesome in itself.

As you know I am currently putting together a Gary snr video and I think in part's two and three, you can get a sense of his dominance during matches against top quality defenders and just like Jnr, he usually had to contend with multiple players at once as they tried their best to stop him.
I especially like a game from early 94 where Snr was tearing the backline a new one so they had to throw Carey down back but it still didn't do much as he finished up with 7 and should have booted 12 or 13 apart from some poor misses infront of the big sticks.

The best way for me to compare them both is from a recent game on the weekend between Geelong and Hawthorn.
Many argue Sam Mitchell was best on ground but others agree that Jimmy Bartel had the greater impact in influencing the game and that's what Snr was like week in and week out.

If you could pick either player in their prime and transport them into your current day side, I'm taking Snr without a blink of an eye

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Jnr is not far behind if we are talking about the ability to influence a games final result as his averages for the midfield are now a new standard of excellence.
He's literally pushing those beside him (including Judd) to keep up, which is quite awesome in itself.

As you know I am currently putting together a Gary snr video and I think in part's two and three, you can get a sense of his dominance during matches against top quality defenders and just like Jnr, he usually had to contend with multiple players at once as they tried their best to stop him.
I especially like a game from early 94 where Snr was tearing the backline a new one so they had to throw Carey down back but it still didn't do much as he finished up with 7 and should have booted 12 or 13 apart from some poor misses infront of the big sticks.

The best way for me to compare them both is from a recent game on the weekend between Geelong and Hawthorn.
Many argue Sam Mitchell was best on ground but others agree that Jimmy Bartel had the greater impact in influencing the game and that's what Snr was like week in and week out.

If you could pick either player in their prime and transport them into your current day side, I'm taking Snr without a blink of an eye

And yet Gary Sr, the man who you say influenced so many games did not win a flag. I know his 89 game was amazing, but the other three were ordinary.
Gary Jr would not play an ordinary Grand Final. It just couldn't happen.

 

[footscore]

And yet Gary Sr, the man who you say influenced so many games did not win a flag. I know his 89 game was amazing, but the other three were ordinary.
Gary Jr would not play an ordinary Grand Final. It just couldn't happen.

cannot agree as he played a totally different position than jnr and you only have to look at that 2010 preliminary final where we were smashed and jnr still amassed around 38 touches.

If he was a forward like Ablett was in 94 and 95, he wouldn't have had many opportunities as he does playing midfield.

Gazza's 1992 GF wasn't ordinary either as he was one of best performers and didn't stop trying.

You also need to look at the age comparisons as Ablett was 33 going on 34 in that 1994 80 point smashing.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

This.
Jr is obviously a gun but his dad was streets ahead.

Please explain how any player in the history of the game could be streets ahead of Gary Ablett Jr.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

cannot agree as he played a totally different position than jnr and you only have to look at that 2010 preliminary final where we were smashed and jnr still amassed around 38 touches.

If he was a forward like Ablett was in 94 and 95, he wouldn't have had many opportunities as he does playing midfield.

Gazza's 1992 GF wasn't ordinary either as he was one of best performers and didn't stop trying.

You also need to look at the age comparisons as Ablett was 33 going on 34 in the 1994 80 point smashing.

You do make a good point, however, if I remember the GFs well (particularly 94 and 95), Ablett Sr did get his chances but wasn't able to contribute.

If Ablett Jr played in the same era as Sr, how many goals do you think he would kick if stationed at full forward?
Conversely, how well do you think Sr would play in the game today running around in the middle?
I truly believe if played forward in a good side, Ablett Jr would be challenging Buddy for the coleman every year. In the same way Buddy kicks his goals, just too good, it would be impossible to stop Jr from kicking 4 or 5 nearly every week.

 

[footscore]

You do make a good point, however, if I remember the GFs well (particularly 94 and 95), Ablett Sr did get his chances but wasn't able to contribute.

If Ablett Jr played in the same era as Sr, how many goals do you think he would kick if stationed at full forward?
Conversely, how well do you think Sr would play in the game today running around in the middle?
I truly believe if played forward in a good side, Ablett Jr would be challenging Buddy for the coleman every year. In the same way Buddy kicks his goals, just too good, it would be impossible to stop Jr from kicking 4 or 5 every week.

yeh that's interesting points you bring up.

It's very hard to judge jnr in the game 20 years ago because it was sooo different.
I think he wouldn't have any problems kicking 80-100 a year though because the style back then was situated around supplying the full forward all game long where as today's game (Collingwood/Geelong in particular) spread the goal kickers all over the park.
I'm still not convinced his marking would have been good enough against genuine ape's like McIntosh, Frawley, Silvagni, Langford, Martyn etc.
Those blokes were all 194cm and above (Frawley was around Scarlett's size though), so Jnr would definitely have been on the limits of his marking capabilities against bigger opposition on a weekly basis.

 

[footscore]

I don't think Ablett snr could play in the midfield in today's game...Geelong supporters may say I'm wrong but he played more similarly to a Lance Franklin where he burst a game open during spurts but he was still one of the finest wing/half forward flankers in his era for a good 7 years before the permanent switch to full-froward.

As I mentioned above..it's too tough to compare era's because I got so many older 80's matches of Snr kicking clutch goals in the 4th quarters of games but then if you reverse things around, Jnr is the bloke who gives the forwards all those opportunities to kick the vital goals, so how do you actually differentiate between the more important stats?
Are goals more important than the the bloke who gets the centre clearances and hits the forwards on the chest?
I'd say no, but yeh'..very interesting opinions I presume.

 

[footscore]

I think the more appropriate voting poll would have been Ablett jnr v Chris Judd, because I still see many rate Judd the better player

 

[Monkey King]

Ablett snr is the best player I have seen, when he was on he could beat 2 or 3 players time and time again. absolute freek.

Ablett Jnr and G Williams are the best midfielders I have seen.


Even then I still think Ablett jnr has become a better player then even Hird was.

I don't disagree with much of this post. Jnr still some way off Snr at this point. Snr was one very rare bird and one of the top 3 players I've seen. Jnr looking like he might nudge the top 10 before he retires, but I just can't see him catching his old man unless he's got a bag of tricks yet to be dipped into.

 

[Trav 20]

If you voted Junior you either didn't see Senior play at his best, you're a troll, or you're an idiot who shouldn't vote in polls.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I'd have Junior in my team first but his old man, on pure footballing ability, is easily the best I've seen.

Snr. much better and penetrating kick on both feet, better mark, bigger (although not much difference height wise) and loved to use it, had a real nasty streak in him.

Jnr more subtle, Snr used blunt force trauma.

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

Both players were the best of their generation. I dont think you can really compare between the Ablett's as there are way too many variables. You can only compare them against their peers, and in my opinion they are both equally supreme.