Ablett Snr or Carey?

[Johnson#26]

I missed out on watching Ablett's career (we kinda did this swap over, Ablett played his last game in round one, 1997 vs Richmond in the ressies, the first match (basically) I ever paid attention to for the Pies was round one, 1997 vs Port ), but recall Carey at his absolute best in 1998 (he was amazing).

So, was wondering where you rate the pair - who was better? What made one better than the other? Which one would be more likely to fire, if your side was three goals down at 3/4 time of a GF? Which one was more likely to beat up on a weaker side?

Thanks in advance, should be interesting reading.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

I missed out on watching Ablett's career (we kinda did this swap over, Ablett played his last game in round one, 1997 vs Richmond in the ressies, the first match (basically) I ever paid attention to for the Pies was round one, 1997 vs Port ), but recall Carey at his absolute best in 1998 (he was amazing).

So, was wondering where you rate the pair - who was better? What made one better than the other? Which one would be more likely to fire, if your side was three goals down at 3/4 time of a GF? Which one was more likely to beat up on a weaker side?

Thanks in advance, should be interesting reading.

I could write a 900,000 page leather bound book on reasons why Ablett Snr is the most complete player the game has ever seen. Simply peerless. However, Carey was a more valuable player to a team - aside from when he is screwing your vice captains wife - he was an inspirational team man, as was Ted Whitten and Leigh Matthews.....

But in pure playing ability terms - well, just go onto YouTube, type in Gary Ablett and view the 12 highlight reels of his games from 84-91 (before he even moved to full-forward). If in further doubt, rent out Ablett one special season (1993, when he did move to full forward - avergain 7.4 goals a game)....If still in doubt, and in answer to who you would want on your team at 3/4 time in a GF when your team is down, go rent out the 89 grand final (and whilst your at it, the entire 89 finals series) and just try to pick your jaw up off the ground after either Ablett outmuscling Langford and snapping on the left, or applying a lung busting bump to Dipper..

Carey was great, there can be no doubt, but Ablett is just so far superior in terms of playing ability!

 

[BigBadCam]

I could write a 900,000 page leather bound book on reasons why Ablett Snr is the most complete player the game has ever seen. Simply peerless. However, Carey was a more valuable player to a team - aside from when he is screwing your vice captains wife - he was an inspirational team man, as was Ted Whitten and Leigh Matthews.....

But in pure playing ability terms - well, just go onto YouTube, type in Gary Ablett and view the 12 highlight reels of his games from 84-91 (before he even moved to full-forward). If in further doubt, rent out Ablett one special season (1993, when he did move to full forward - avergain 7.4 goals a game)....If still in doubt, and in answer to who you would want on your team at 3/4 time in a GF when your team is down, go rent out the 89 grand final (and whilst your at it, the entire 89 finals series) and just try to pick your jaw up off the ground after either Ablett outmuscling Langford and snapping on the left, or applying a lung busting bump to Dipper..

Carey was great, there can be no doubt, but Ablett is just so far superior in terms of playing ability!

Here, here. Ablett is by far the best football player I have ever seen play the game. At times he let himself and his team down through his lack of commitment, but as soon as he crossed that white line on game day (if he made it) there was no stopping him. I reckon half our crowds in those days were there to see him. People try and compare some of these modern footballers to players like Ablett, but they wouldn't even be fit to polish his boots. Magician. Genious. Freak. Ablett by a mile, but he'd need to fit in with our modern team first agenda.

 

[Cohzee]

I could write a 900,000 page leather bound book on reasons why Ablett Snr is the most complete player the game has ever seen. Simply peerless. However, Carey was a more valuable player to a team - aside from when he is screwing your vice captains wife - he was an inspirational team man, as was Ted Whitten and Leigh Matthews.....

But in pure playing ability terms - well, just go onto YouTube, type in Gary Ablett and view the 12 highlight reels of his games from 84-91 (before he even moved to full-forward). If in further doubt, rent out Ablett one special season (1993, when he did move to full forward - avergain 7.4 goals a game)....If still in doubt, and in answer to who you would want on your team at 3/4 time in a GF when your team is down, go rent out the 89 grand final (and whilst your at it, the entire 89 finals series) and just try to pick your jaw up off the ground after either Ablett outmuscling Langford and snapping on the left, or applying a lung busting bump to Dipper..

Carey was great, there can be no doubt, but Ablett is just so far superior in terms of playing ability!

Top post.

 

[Inside_Source]

Top post.

i agree

 

[SmothOperRaider]

I could write a 900,000 page leather bound book on reasons why Ablett Snr is the most complete player the game has ever seen. Simply peerless. However, Carey was a more valuable player to a team - aside from when he is screwing your vice captains wife - he was an inspirational team man, as was Ted Whitten and Leigh Matthews.....

But in pure playing ability terms - well, just go onto YouTube, type in Gary Ablett and view the 12 highlight reels of his games from 84-91 (before he even moved to full-forward). If in further doubt, rent out Ablett one special season (1993, when he did move to full forward - avergain 7.4 goals a game)....If still in doubt, and in answer to who you would want on your team at 3/4 time in a GF when your team is down, go rent out the 89 grand final (and whilst your at it, the entire 89 finals series) and just try to pick your jaw up off the ground after either Ablett outmuscling Langford and snapping on the left, or applying a lung busting bump to Dipper..

Carey was great, there can be no doubt, but Ablett is just so far superior in terms of playing ability!

To the OP: THIS ^^^^^

I loved catching the train down from Melbourne after school on a Friday, staying with family in Geelong Friday night and walking to KP on the Sat morning just for a chance to see Gazza play. There was never nor will ever be better than God.

 

[Claude Balls]

I wasn't old enough to really appreciate Ablett's best, as I would now for example, though I did see a lot of his football because my Dad also barracks for Geelong.

I figure the reason why Carey is often 'ranked' higher than Ablett Snr, by journos and commentators etc, is because (aside from his undeniable talent) he was a more central and influential figure with respect to the other 21 guys on the ground, and won 2 flags as a result.

Ablett on the other hand, played football almost as if it was an individual sport. However, while the fore mentioned commentators often criticise this aspect of his game, it is this very aspect that epitomises his natural ability. He was simply so good that if he got the ball just forward of centre wing for example, he could muster a shot at goal 90% of the time by either outrunning, outbuscling, or outmanoeuvring his direct opponent/s, or by just dropping it on the boot from 10m outside 50. For this reason it is almost gratuitous to criticise the great man for being selfish.

Nonetheless, the ultimate aim of AFL is to win premierships, so I don't mind Ablett trailing more often than not the likes of Carey and Mathews, both of whom boast far more rounded resumes to go with their renowned abillity.

When pure ability is all that's in question however, there is no doubt that Gary Ablett Snr stands above all others, including Carey.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Who would you rather have? Ablett or Carey? Carey
Who would you rather have? Ablett Snr of Ablett Jnr? Ablett Jnr.

Who would you rather watch? Ablett Snr every day of the week, twice on Sundays.

It seems largely irrelevant that Ablett played for Geelong. Any spectator from, any background or allegiance, loved watching him play. It was like Bradman, his talent transcends everything. If you loved the sport, you loved watching Ablett. He had it all.

Ablett is the best I have seen.

 

[witsend]

If I wanted week in week out footy entertainment...Ablett SR.
If I wanted Premierships...Carey.
If I wanted both...Ablett Jr.

 

[jaykay72]

These are all marvellous dissertions (er, posts) - glad to see we all share a common view.

Only hope this thread generates a groundswell of viewers, if not contributors.

Fact is, even most opposition supporters can't argue with the spectacle that was GA Snr!

How many people have said they weren't support Geelong, yet went to see Geelong matches just to see him - how many other players can be mentioned in the same light?

 

[Tex_21]

There is a quote from Rex Hunt

"Gary Ablett (snr) is one of the few players I'd pay to see on my day off"

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

Carey was a great footballer, and among the very best I have seen. Yet I find it laughable that he is considered as good or better than Ablett .

Carey dominated as a CHF, but that was more or less the one role he played. His career also started to fade by the time he was 29. Ablett’s career had two phases and more longevity – the first as a HF/rotating midfielder and the second as a FF. And he dominated both more completely than Carey.

In both 85 and 88, for instance, Ablett kicked 82 goals playing as a HF/midfielder. In today’s football that would be like Paul Chapman kicking 82 goals in a season. No non-specialist forward has ever (before or since) achieved this feat. He would also average approx. 25 possessions a match in this period, when those kinds of numbers really meant something.

I have the pleasure of being able to say I saw Ablett kick 14 goals in a match against Richmond at the MCG in this period and pick up a big number of possessions. It was the most total football performance I have ever seen. I mean, it wasn’t like watching Lockett or Dunstall kick 14. You were watching a guy having control over the game more or less all over the field. I have never seen a match where it is as though one player is in fifth gear and everyone else is still parked. The first 8 goals actually came in the first half while he was on the wing….

It wasn’t until Ablett Snr was in his early thirties that he moved to FF. In his first season in that position he kicked 124 goals from just 17 matches. He had 50 goals by round 6, and 100 goals by round 13. He backed that up with 129 in the next season and 122 goals the season after that (neither of which were from full H&A seasons). Carey was great, but has no record that compares to that.

Yet, in a way, these stats are bull-shit, and tell you nothing of the experience of watching him. His skills, core strength, aerial ability and creativity were really beyond words. As great as Carey was, you didn’t tend to see players (opposition and team mates alike) stop in their tracks and watch him in awe .With Ablett you regularly did. In fact, many past teammates and opponents describe Ablett that way – as though he was just playing another game all together. Tim Watson (as decorated a footballer as you will get) describes it well when he says “Watching Ablett made me feel vulnerable, as though he was complete and the rest of us had something missing.”

Ablett and Carey were both sublimely skilled footballers. They were both the complete package in the true sense of the term, who regularly won matches off their own boot and through their actions on the field. Yet Ablett did it more often, for longer, and in more varied roles than Carey, and he did it with more panache and skill (which is really saying something).

The only way Carey really has it over Ablett is that he was a more enthusiastic team man (too much so, it would appear), and that he won premiership medallions, where Ablett didn’t. IMO those premiership medallions are the only reason Carey is describe by some football commentators as the “greatest” player and Ablett the most “talented, skilled and exciting”.

Ablett was the most electrifying footballer I have seen in three decades of watching football closely – much more so than many incredible players, such as Carey, Matthews, Williams, Lockett, Dunstall, et al. As Gaz Brownlow suggests, try to find some time to watch the 12 ‘highlight reels’ on You Tube. There is also a 14 goal performance against Essendon on You Tube that is brilliant (though strangely, in no way his best game).

Obviously the guy had his off field problems. But on the field he was as close to the ‘perfect’ Rules footballer that you will ever see.

 

[Vegas.]

Wicked post NB, top stuff. As Claude Balls said earlier, I was a bit too young to appreciate the master at the time, but I was there for heaps of his games with the old man. I've watched plenty of games on tape, but it doesn't give you the full experience. I am lapping up the posts in this thread. Keep em coming.

 

[witsend]

Carey was a great footballer, and among the very best I have seen. Yet I find it laughable that he is considered as good or better than Ablett .

Carey dominated as a CHF, but that was more or less the one role he played. His career also started to fade by the time he was 29. Ablett’s career had two phases and more longevity – the first as a HF/rotating midfielder and the second as a FF. And he dominated both more completely than Carey.

In both 85 and 88, for instance, Ablett kicked 82 goals playing as a HF/midfielder. In today’s football that would be like Paul Chapman kicking 82 goals in a season. No non-specialist forward has ever (before or since) achieved this feat. He would also average approx. 25 possessions a match in this period, when those kinds of numbers really meant something.

I have the pleasure of being able to say I saw Ablett kick 14 goals in a match against Richmond at the MCG in this period and pick up a big number of possessions. It was the most total football performance I have ever seen. I mean, it wasn’t like watching Lockett or Dunstall kick 14. You were watching a guy having control over the game more or less all over the field. I have never seen a match where it is as though one player is in fifth gear and everyone else is still parked. The first 8 goals actually came in the first half while he was on the wing….

It wasn’t until Ablett Snr was in his early thirties that he moved to FF. In his first season in that position he kicked 124 goals from just 17 matches. He had 50 goals by round 6, and 100 goals by round 13. He backed that up with 129 in the next season and 122 goals the season after that (neither of which were from full H&A seasons). Carey was great, but has no record that compares to that.

Yet, in a way, these stats are bull-shit, and tell you nothing of the experience of watching him. His skills, core strength, aerial ability and creativity were really beyond words. As great as Carey was, you didn’t tend to see players (opposition and team mates alike) stop in their tracks and watch him in awe .With Ablett you regularly did. In fact, many past teammates and opponents describe Ablett that way – as though he was just playing another game all together. Tim Watson (as decorated a footballer as you will get) describes it well when he says “Watching Ablett made me feel vulnerable, as though he was complete and the rest of us had something missing.”

Ablett and Carey were both sublimely skilled footballers. They were both the complete package in the true sense of the term, who regularly won matches off their own boot and through their actions on the field. Yet Ablett did it more often, for longer, and in more varied roles than Carey, and he did it with more panache and skill (which is really saying something).

The only way Carey really has it over Ablett is that he was a more enthusiastic team man (too much so, it would appear), and that he won premiership medallions, where Ablett didn’t. IMO those premiership medallions are the only reason Carey is describe by some football commentators as the “greatest” player and Ablett the most “talented, skilled and exciting”.

Ablett was the most electrifying footballer I have seen in three decades of watching football closely – much more so than many incredible players, such as Carey, Matthews, Williams, Lockett, Dunstall, et al. As Gaz Brownlow suggests, try to find some time to watch the 12 ‘highlight reels’ on You Tube. There is also a 14 goal performance against Essendon on You Tube that is brilliant (though strangely, in no way his best game).

Obviously the guy had his off field problems. But on the field he was as close to the ‘perfect’ Rules footballer that you will ever see.

I too saw that game at the 'G where Ablett kicked 14...it was sublime!!
Terrific post and a very, very accurate assessment of both players.


There is a mark he took against Essendon in the game where he kicked 14 in a losing side (I was there too...possibly the greatest game I have ever seen). He is flanked and crushed in mid-air by 2 Essendon players, 1 was Kickett IIRC, and he always rated it very, very highly, as it was under extreme pressure on both sides and yet he grabbed the ball as though it was super-glued to his hands. Players literally used to bounce off him!
I spoke to a former Demon FB once about playing on him (the Irish guy, black hair and moustache...I wanna say Sean Smith but I know that's not right), and he told me running into Ablett was literally like running into a brick wall. He had amazing strength and a rather odd shape in the upper body..his shoulders kinda morphed into his head.
Also the player told me that Ablett was so strong and could kick ridiculous distances off 1 step, which gave him a massive time advantage over opponents and team-mates, as he could get boot to ball and score when mere mortals would need to wind up for the shot.

 

[Hinkley29]

I generally concur with everything posted above.

But, the one thing that Carey had over Ablett is an intangible: He was able to impose his will on a game/contest/team by sheer force of personality. There were times when Carey simply would refuse to let his team lose, and by sheer willpower would put his team on his back and get them over the line. Because of this, he inspired confidence in his teammates, and the players under him would follow him into any battle. It made him an awesome leader.

Gaz Snr on the other hand was simply without peer as a player. But he didn't have the leadership qualities that Carey did.

I certainly wouldn't swap our history with Gaz Snr for any other player from any other club. He was the most exhilirating player to watch of all time.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I could write a 900,000 page leather bound book on reasons why Ablett Snr is the most complete player the game has ever seen. Simply peerless. However, Carey was a more valuable player to a team - aside from when he is screwing your vice captains wife - he was an inspirational team man, as was Ted Whitten and Leigh Matthews.....

But in pure playing ability terms - well, just go onto YouTube, type in Gary Ablett and view the 12 highlight reels of his games from 84-91 (before he even moved to full-forward). If in further doubt, rent out Ablett one special season (1993, when he did move to full forward - avergain 7.4 goals a game)....If still in doubt, and in answer to who you would want on your team at 3/4 time in a GF when your team is down, go rent out the 89 grand final (and whilst your at it, the entire 89 finals series) and just try to pick your jaw up off the ground after either Ablett outmuscling Langford and snapping on the left, or applying a lung busting bump to Dipper..

Carey was great, there can be no doubt, but Ablett is just so far superior in terms of playing ability!

Fantastic post, I agree with every word!

Carey was a great player, and no doubt dragged his team along with him, but Ablett Snr was, is and I suspect always will be, the best player to ever play the game. An absolute freak, and some of the things he did with the football will never be done again, by anyone. I still remember as a boy watching Ablett and Salmon trade goals that day, and even now it's all still vivid. Ablett's like that, when you watch him take marks on people's heads or snap goals you didn't think were possible, it sticks with you.

 

[NoLoyalty]

Ablett Snr with out a doubt !!!

 

[Mario the Lothario]

One kicked 1100 goals, the other kicked 750 goals and had about 1100 goal assists.

Carey will always be better because he was, by a long margin, the better team player.

 

[Pivo]

There are a number of great posts which sums up why Gary Ablett Jnr's () dad is the greatest player of all time.

As good as Carey was in, arguably, the toughest position on the ground, you cannot go past Ablett (as others have said) as the most complete player to have played the game.

He dominated games off half back, the wing, half forward and, towards the end of his career, full forward and had the ability to make grown men weep with things he did on the field. Brilliant in the wet as well as the dry, accomplished on both sides of his body to the point where you wouldn't know which side was dominate unless you watched him week in-week out (which 1000s did) and produced the greatest month of AFL anyone could wish to see in the '89 final series.

Simply put - I follow Geelong because of Gary Ablett Snr.

Simply put - you don't get labelled God for nothing.

Each generation will have its own king but there will (in a manner of speaking) only ever be one God.

And God will always be better than any King.

 

[SmothOperRaider]

One kicked 1100 goals, the other kicked 750 goals and had about 1100 goal assists.

Carey will always be better because he was, by a long margin, the better team player.

Yeah Carey was the ultimate team man.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I think people perhaps criticise Ablett for not performing when it mattered which is very unfair. Obviously his 89 series was electric. '91 was suspended (ultimately cost us the flag). '92 GF was reasonable kicking 3 goals from the flank. '94 and '95 were stinkers unfortunately and we got smashed, so was never allowed to have an influence. Also, he was 35 by this stage!!

 

[monna]

If Ablett was such a great 'individual' then why did he never win the games highest individual honour? I'm not saying that Brownlows are the be-all and end-all of football greatness. But there is no better measure of individual performance.

In fact if look at all indivdual honors, excluding the coleman, Carey Leads Ablett in all. E.g Carey 7 time AA, Ablett 4 time. Carey 2 x MVP, Ablett 1. Carey 4 x Club B+F, Ablett 1.

In conclusion i think that G.Ablett is the most exciting to watch player of all time (Currently), but Carey was the greater + More complete player.

 

[Pivo]

If Ablett was such a great 'individual' then why did he never win the games highest individual honour? I'm not saying that Brownlows are the be-all and end-all of football greatness. But there is no better measure of individual performance.

In fact if look at all indivdual honors, excluding the coleman, Carey Leads Ablett in all. E.g Carey 7 time AA, Ablett 4 time. Carey 2 x MVP, Ablett 1. Carey 4 x Club B+F, Ablett 1.

In conclusion i think that G.Ablett is the most exciting to watch player of all time (Currently), but Carey was the greater + More complete player.

Interesting stats, but lots of very good players never won a Brownlow - Ablett, Carey & Matthews spring straight to mind.

Does winning individual awards mean Matthew Pavlich (who has 6 AA gongs and 5 B&F awards IIRC) is a better player than Ablett as well?

Is Pavlich ALMOST as good as Carey since Pavlich has 1 less AA award but 1 more B&F award and was his clubs leading goal kicker 5 times?

Did Carey play off a half back flank or wing?? Does the fact that Ablett could do that but Carey couldn't make Carey pretty one dimensional?

It is a debate that is hard to quantify as both sets of supporters carry a certain bias to their own man.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Did Carey play off a half back flank or wing?? Does the fact that Ablett could do that but Carey couldn't make Carey pretty one dimensional?

Get a copy of the 1999 grand final and watch what Carey did to the full back of the century when moved up in to the middle of the ground.

 

[witsend]

If Ablett was such a great 'individual' then why did he never win the games highest individual honour? I'm not saying that Brownlows are the be-all and end-all of football greatness. But there is no better measure of individual performance.

In fact if look at all indivdual honors, excluding the coleman, Carey Leads Ablett in all. E.g Carey 7 time AA, Ablett 4 time. Carey 2 x MVP, Ablett 1. Carey 4 x Club B+F, Ablett 1.

In conclusion i think that G.Ablett is the most exciting to watch player of all time (Currently), but Carey was the greater + More complete player.

Don't know...ask the umpires. Like many superstars, he set standards that meant that a 7 goal 20 possession game at FF would not give him a vote because he was just expected to do that.
Carey and Leigh Matthews didn't win Brownlows either and would have had the same problem IMO, and there wasn't the rabid media attention then that might steer the umps to them.
Carey made players around him better and was of more value in attaining Premierships, but Ablett was simply the greatest talent the game has ever seen.