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Abortion

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Baby Duck said:
So your argument is if its not wanted and because there is a dearth of folks unwilling to adopt, just kill it and move on...and also, the birth canal is some magical passage that bestows personhood on a baby, and prior to that its a blob of cells. Right. Gotcha.

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it is called a debate... ;)
 
Katherine of Tarragon‏ @katticus28
Katherine of Tarragon Retweeted Lyle Shelton

If we set up “footpath counsellors” outside churches to warn anyone heading in that they’re entering an institution with a proven history of raping small children and to stay away at all costs, would Lyle respect our “freedom of speech”?

Katherine of Tarragon added,


Lyle Shelton @LyleShelton
Law already stops harassment. Peaceful prayer, respectful free speech & life-saving sidewalk counselling is what has been criminalised. The silence of most @The_Nationals & @AusLiberalParty members is further evidence of drift to radical @Greens Left. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw...-zones-become-law-in-nsw-20180607-p4zk18.html …
6:24 PM - 9 Jun 2018
 

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Baltimore Jack said:
Katherine of Tarragon‏ @katticus28
Katherine of Tarragon Retweeted Lyle Shelton

If we set up “footpath counsellors” outside churches to warn anyone heading in that they’re entering an institution with a proven history of raping small children and to stay away at all costs, would Lyle respect our “freedom of speech”?

Katherine of Tarragon added,


Lyle Shelton @LyleShelton
Law already stops harassment. Peaceful prayer, respectful free speech & life-saving sidewalk counselling is what has been criminalised. The silence of most @The_Nationals & @AusLiberalParty members is further evidence of drift to radical @Greens Left. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw...-zones-become-law-in-nsw-20180607-p4zk18.html …
6:24 PM - 9 Jun 2018
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Yet the looney left are promoting vegan lifestyles and jumping head over heal to ban live cattle export as well as the consumption of their meat!

Oh wait let’s promote the killing of a baby fetus and shame all churches and religions except the worst of all Islam of course

looney logic 101
 
Not everyone on the left is a vegan you flog, nor do you have to be a lefty to care about the welfare of animals.

Who is promoting abortion? Women shouldn’t have to put up with religious arseholes calling them baby killers if they decide to go down that path.
 
DarwinRoo said:
Not everyone on the left is a vegan you flog, nor do you have to be a lefty to care about the welfare of animals.

Who is promoting abortion? Women shouldn’t have to put up with religious arseholes calling them baby killers if they decide to go down that path.
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It has nothing to do with religion. The foetus is alive well before 22 weeks. Call it what you like but it’s still killing a live unborn child!
 
Lebbo73 said:
It has nothing to do with religion. The foetus is alive well before 22 weeks. Call it what you like but it’s still killing a live unborn child!
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You can call it killing a live unborn child, but that doesn't change the fact that we as a society can still decide that killing that live unborn child is still a reasonable course of action.
 
Lebbo73 said:
It has nothing to do with religion. The foetus is alive well before 22 weeks. Call it what you like but it’s still killing a live unborn child!
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It's not an unborn child if it can't actually function as a child if born at that stage.
 
Lebbo73 said:
You can justify it all you want but it is still killing a foetus that is alive. You’re lucky that your mother decided not to kill you before you were born!
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Well, I just masturbated so I killed a potential foetus, that's murder as well.

How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go with your silliness? A foetus is not alive without the help of the mother, end of story. Therefore it is not it's own person. End of story. God boys can go over there and pray. You know like how one prays for North to win and the other for Sydney to win... yet only one can win, how does god decide?!?!?!? Seriously, idiots.
 
Lebbo73 said:
You can justify it all you want but it is still killing a foetus that is alive. You’re lucky that your mother decided not to kill you before you were born!
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But no harm would be caused to him if she decided to abort (before a certain period of gestation). He just simply wouldn't have existed.

If you were going to be logically consistent you would be looking to ban all contraception and masturbation as well. That's killing a potential child as well according to your stupid logic.

But no, you'd prefer screaming baby killer at the top of your lungs rather than discussing the topic rationally.
 

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Showbags said:
But no harm would be caused to him if she decided to abort (before a certain period of gestation). He just simply wouldn't have existed.

If you were going to be logically consistent you would be looking to ban all contraception and masturbation as well. That's killing a potential child as well according to your stupid logic.

But no, you'd prefer screaming baby killer at the top of your lungs rather than discussing the topic rationally.
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You’re talking religious. I’m not arguing on religious grounds so you’re the one espousing stupid logic. Watch any abortion video and in most cases there is a foetus fighting against annihilation. What ever happened to the morning after pill?
 
MacMum said:
It's an individual womans decision, no-one elses.....nor is it their business to judge that woman.
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sadly it appears that one woman's decision is everyone else's when it comes to personal ideas about giving birth.

when they are born it is probably better that it involves other people but before that and with good advice then to terminate it shouldn't
make every woman feel bad and insignificant.

the point obviously is better education and much better after care service so that women don't feel utterly isolated and
less than worthy of normal help.

not all my views in this post will matter but I hope you get a smattering of the intent.
 
Part of the problem here is that the perspective on it has changed from life being intrinsically valuable to pregnancy being an illness that a woman accidently catches, and subsequently must be cured with an abortion. This attitude is reflected everywhere in the terminology, both in a subtle way and in some cases extreme overt ways like asserting that growing children are parasites. Interestingly this change in attitude is not some organic evolution of civil rights brought about by common people. Quite sad but not at all surprising humans can be convinced to treat their offspring like worthless garbage.

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DarwinRoo said:
Not everyone on the left is a vegan you flog, nor do you have to be a lefty to care about the welfare of animals.

Who is promoting abortion? Women shouldn’t have to put up with religious arseholes calling them baby killers if they decide to go down that path.
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I'm not religious, I just call things what they are. When a woman is pregnant, people ask her how the baby is going almost from the first month. If a woman has a miscarriage she is treated with great empathy and compassion over her loss. Yet somehow, if she decides to end it's life (kill it) it suddenly transforms into a non human entity. Why can't people who kill their unborn baby own it? If they find saying the words too distasteful and want to dress it up like the military who refer to "collateral damage" when they really mean slaughtered men , women and children, then perhaps they shouldn't kill the unborn baby.
 

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Leeda said:
sadly it appears that one woman's decision is everyone else's when it comes to personal ideas about giving birth
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Why is it one woman's decision? How did she get pregnant? Why doesn't the father have a say? If she decides to have the baby, even if he doesn't want to he is forced by law to financially support the child for 18 years. So which is it? Is the women the only person who has a say and if so why can she force the man to be a father against his will? By the way-it isn't the woman's body-there is another human inside her body. What word games we play in order to camouflage and obfuscate the truth.
 
Lebbo73 said:
You’re talking religious. I’m not arguing on religious grounds so you’re the one espousing stupid logic. Watch any abortion video and in most cases there is a foetus fighting against annihilation. What ever happened to the morning after pill?
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Again, before a certain period of gestation, it is simply a mass of cells (a zygote or gamete). So unless your arguing from a god bothering all life is sacred type viewpoint then I dont understand your outrage.

When the zygote or gamete develops into a foetus and begins developing the ability to feel pain etc then the conversation changes completely. But before then, from a moral standpoint, an abortion is exactly the same as wearing a condom or taking the pill.
 
domus said:
Why is it one woman's decision? How did she get pregnant? Why doesn't the father have a say? If she decides to have the baby, even if he doesn't want to he is forced by law to financially support the child for 18 years. So which is it? Is the women the only person who has a say and if so why can she force the man to be a father against his will? By the way-it isn't the woman's body-there is another human inside her body. What word games we play in order to camouflage and obfuscate the truth.
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and there we have it... questions about someone else apart from 'yourself'.

this is the point overall and I welcome the debate, because it is about having a robust conversation without trying to demean anyone else..

thanks dude you have contributed by being very thoughtful.. these things help over and above just being belligerent...
 
Niximus said:
Some people are only alive because their father made the decision to rape their mother. Would that mean that they should be pro-rape?
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Showbags said:
Again, before a certain period of gestation, it is simply a mass of cells (a zygote or gamete). So unless your arguing from a god bothering all life is sacred type viewpoint then I dont understand your outrage.

When the zygote or gamete develops into a foetus and begins developing the ability to feel pain etc then the conversation changes completely. But before then, from a moral standpoint, an abortion is exactly the same as wearing a condom or taking the pill.
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So if I can promise to kill you painlessly, that is not murder. Really? What about killing a person with severe brain damage and in a vegetative state painlessly? Should that be permissible if the parent feels burdened or overwhelmed? if not-why not?
 
domus said:
So if I can promise to kill you painlessly, that is not murder. Really? What about killing a person with severe brain damage and in a vegetative state painlessly? Should that be permissible if the parent feels burdened or overwhelmed? if not-why not?
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Is a brain dead person alive? Their body may still be performing the functions of life, but there's no longer a mind there.

Abortion is at the other end and terminating before there is a mind in there. Preventing it from being is not the same as ending it once it exists.

Regarding being in a vegetative state, the thought of being trapped in my own body, conscious but unable to move, or communicate with anyone is literally the worst torture I can imagine. I'd certainly hope that if I found myself in that situation that someone would do me the courtesy of ending my suffering.
 
Niximus said:
Is a brain dead person alive? Their body may still be performing the functions of life, but there's no longer a mind there.

Abortion is at the other end and terminating before there is a mind in there. Preventing it from being is not the same as ending it once it exists.

Regarding being in a vegetative state, the thought of being trapped in my own body, conscious but unable to move, or communicate with anyone is literally the worst torture I can imagine. I'd certainly hope that if I found myself in that situation that someone would do me the courtesy of ending my suffering.
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Well, there are many people trapped in their bodies who still wish to live with every fibre of their being. When you kill an unborn baby you are ending its life and all prospects of enjoying the countless wonders we encounter every day. My daughter in law is pregnant. Her baby is only six weeks old. It has a heartbeat and its brain is already developing. It is a baby in its vey earliest stage of life. If someone harmed my daughter in law in an effort to kill her unborn baby I would consider it a murder-right now.
 

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