Abortion

KevinCat07

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Hey guys, KC here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/romania/2207046/Romanian-rape-victim-to-have-abortion-in-Britain.html

Just interested to know your opinions on Abortion? In light of the case in Romania I thought it would be interesting to see the general consensus on BF.

I have seen and talked to many left wingers who don't have strong feelings on it, or are fence sitters.

I have always thought it dosen't really fit in the pro-choice column, when the baby dosen't have a choice to live or die, even if the mother does.

In rape cases it obviosuly has to be taken in consideration, esp with 11yos like the one above, that abortion be taken place. Not only is the 11yo pyhsically able to bear a baby, she has been forced into sex and the rapist should be executed. If older say 20+ though it still isn't the babies choice.

However as far as consensual sex I don't think the fetus should have to pay for the poor choice of unprotected sex.

Obviously each case is different, but what are your thoughts? I have listed many different options in the poll.
 

rizzo

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However as far as consensual sex I don't think the fetus should have to pay for the poor choice of unprotected sex.

Obviously each case is different, but what are your thoughts? I have listed many different options in the poll.
Not really. Things like condom breakage happen all the time. What if someone got preggers after that? They took the right measures and shouldn't have to pay for it.

I'm all for abortion and it should be legalised. Can't stand the goodie goodies that say that it has feelings/ cant choose what they want. It is just a bloody cell in some unlucky chick.

What would you rather people who are against abortion?

A baby who comes into the world, the mother has to live off the system because she can't afford to look after the child. THe mother goes to work to try support for the child, so the child has no figure to teach and guide them and turns into a ____hole of a child. Or the mother doesn't give a sh*t from the start and you still get a prick of a child.

Or we can get the bastard sucked out and we all move on..
 

freo heave ho

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I think it should be the woman's choice not the government's. The foetus has no more say in it than someone who is on permanent life support can decide whether it stays on or switches off.
 

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Chief

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Youth crime flourishes in places where abortion is illegal or hard to get.

If the state wants to decide that people cannot terminate a pregnancy the state should look after the children.

Allowing abortion is better for society than dictating what people can and cannot do with their own body. Around 50% of all pregnancies are terminated spontaneously anyway. If you were really concerned about the issue you'd campaign for research into stopping this happening rather than picking on a few unfortunate people.
 

JW Frogen

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Here is my view, guaranteed to please no one. Not even me.

Abortion is killing.

All definitions of life post conception are arbitrary human or legal decisions, they are not when a life began.

Life begins at conception.

That is when this seperate biological material, sperm and egg, started to exist as a life, in however primative form in the early stages.

But, some times killing is necessary. The terms killer and murder are not the same thing, murder is a legal term, and it means legal sanction against has been agreed upon.

Killing a criminal in self-defense, in war (under certain circumstances) is not murder, but it sure as hell is killing.

Abortion is killing.

But history shows women can not be forced to endure nine months of pregnancy, to carry a life in their body if they are determined not to, and to force them is to my mind a greater injustice than the killing of the life in very early stages in most circumstances.

Abortion, as currently practiced, is justifiable killing.

But do not kid yourself ladies, give the gravity of your decision the honor of truth, you are killing.

You may have to kill, but killing is what you are doing.
 

KevinCat07

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Not really. Things like condom breakage happen all the time. What if someone got preggers after that? They took the right measures and shouldn't have to pay for it.

I'm all for abortion and it should be legalised. Can't stand the goodie goodies that say that it has feelings/ cant choose what they want. It is just a bloody cell in some unlucky chick.

What would you rather people who are against abortion?

A baby who comes into the world, the mother has to live off the system because she can't afford to look after the child. THe mother goes to work to try support for the child, so the child has no figure to teach and guide them and turns into a ____hole of a child. Or the mother doesn't give a sh*t from the start and you still get a prick of a child.

Or we can get the bastard sucked out and we all move on..

Did they though? 99% of condsoms are safe but there are that 1% that don't work. Surely it's up to them to know this. Abstinence would be still be 100% safer.

And given all the grisly images we see of the results of an abortion I don't know how it's so simple for you to say "suck the bastards out".
 

KevinCat07

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Youth crime flourishes in places where abortion is illegal or hard to get.

If the state wants to decide that people cannot terminate a pregnancy the state should look after the children.

Allowing abortion is better for society than dictating what people can and cannot do with their own body. Around 50% of all pregnancies are terminated spontaneously anyway. If you were really concerned about the issue you'd campaign for research into stopping this happening rather than picking on a few unfortunate people.

Chief, it's very easy to state these kind of things when you are already alive.

Would you oppose abortion still if you in the firing line? Just think you wouldn't even be here if your mum had decided for one. Neither would I. Or anyone else we love.

It's very easy to say the things you have said when you have no feelings or attachment.
 

fairdinkum

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'Abortion' is a very broad issue. When even the 'pro-lifers' will accept that abortion is okay in certain circumstances (see original post), you know it is not a cut-and-dried debate. The problem with pro-choicers for me is that many seem to define life based on when the foetus is born. The problems with their reasoning are many and obvious.

Looking forward to seeing what the rest of you have to say about this.
 

Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear

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I'd post some of the types of images you are talking about KC, but it would almost certainly earn me a card for showing the truth.

How anyone is ok with a procedure where a unborn's brain is sucked (one of many different procedures) out is sickening to me.:(
 

rizzo

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Here is my view, guaranteed to please no one. Not even me.

Abortion is killing.

All definitions of life post conception are arbitrary human or legal decisions, they are not when a life began.

Life begins at conception.

That is when this seperate biological material, sperm and egg, started to exist as a life, in however primative form in the early stages.

But, some times killing is necessary. The terms killer and murder are not the same thing, murder is a legal term, and it means legal sanction against has been agreed upon.

Killing a criminal in self-defense, in war (under certain circumstances) is not murder, but it sure as hell is killing.

Abortion is killing.

But history shows women can not be forced to endure nine months of pregnancy, to carry a life in their body if they are determined not to, and to force them is to my mind a greater injustice than the killing of the life in very early stages in most circumstances.

Abortion, as currently practiced, is justifiable killing.

But do not kid yourself ladies, give the gravity of your decision the honor of truth, you are killing.

You may have to kill, but killing is what you are doing.

Prefer home abortions then? You know a few knitting needles up there? That is what will happen if abortion not allowed.


Did they though? 99% of condsoms are safe but there are that 1% that don't work. Surely it's up to them to know this. Abstinence would be still be 100% safer.

And given all the grisly images we see of the results of an abortion I don't know how it's so simple for you to say "suck the bastards out".
How many people would not have sex because of that. People are doing the responsible thing by wearing protection so it is not their fault.

Granted people who don't use protection make up the majority of people that would have an abortion, it is still their right to choose whether or not they have the child. Would you rather them have it and let the child be neglected?

How people can say a cell that isn't even a human yet has the right to chose whether it lives or not is absurd.
 

Contra Mundum

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Here is my view, guaranteed to please no one. Not even me.

Abortion is killing.

All definitions of life post conception are arbitrary human or legal decisions, they are not when a life began.

Life begins at conception.

That is when this seperate biological material, sperm and egg, started to exist as a life, in however primative form in the early stages.

But, some times killing is necessary. The terms killer and murder are not the same thing, murder is a legal term, and it means legal sanction against has been agreed upon.

Killing a criminal in self-defense, in war (under certain circumstances) is not murder, but it sure as hell is killing.

Abortion is killing.

But history shows women can not be forced to endure nine months of pregnancy, to carry a life in their body if they are determined not to, and to force them is to my mind a greater injustice than the killing of the life in very early stages in most circumstances.

Abortion, as currently practiced, is justifiable killing.

But do not kid yourself ladies, give the gravity of your decision the honor of truth, you are killing.

You may have to kill, but killing is what you are doing.
I reckon it is killing too and I hate people using it as a casual birth control method - I agree with Fidel Castro the primary way of reducing abortion is not making it illegal but to educate and provide plenty of alternatives - Hilary Clinton stole one of his sayings actually "Abortion should be safe, legal and rare"

Criminalising abortion has never been effective as a deterrent. The State cannot enforce morality - education and making the pill and condoms cheap and available are the answer

I have got a problem with late termers - seems to be the "extinguishment of human life" argument gets more tenous the less cells you destroy
 

KevinCat07

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Prefer home abortions then? You know a few knitting needles up there? That is what will happen if abortion not allowed.




How many people would not have sex because of that. People are doing the responsible thing by wearing protection so it is not their fault.

Granted people who don't use protection make up the majority of people that would have an abortion, it is still their right to choose whether or not they have the child. Would you rather them have it and let the child be neglected?

How people can say a cell that isn't even a human yet has the right to chose whether it lives or not is absurd.

Well it's the more responsible thing to unprotected, yes, but it is well know that 1% of condoms are defective. Do you agree that they should at least be aware of that. That they are taking a risk (albeit, a very small one) and thus bear the results.

Both the Makers and the customers should have a duty of care to this small number of defective ones.
 

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rizzo

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Well it's the more responsible thing to unprotected, yes, but it is well know that 1% of condoms are defective. Do you agree that they should at least be aware of that. That they are taking a risk (albeit, a very small one) and thus bear the results.

Both the Makers and the customers should have a duty of care to this small number of defective ones.
I think everyone knows that condoms aren't 100%, and neither is the pill. However if someone takes all the possible steps to make sure it doesn't happen and it happens, should have the right to terminate it.

While i have less sympathy for unprotected people, I would rather them terminate the pregnancy then bring a child into the world that will be unloved, neglected and a burden on society.
 

KevinCat07

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Ok. I think the child should be given a chance though with fosters. At least they have a chance - they aren't even given that if their brains are sucked out, or they are burnt/baked.

Re unprotected people - you lie with dogs, you get fleas.
 

linga_is_no1

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I'm a left winger and believe that Abortion regardless of the circumstance is murder. Life begins at conception, this is scientifically proven. You are a murderer if you think otherwise.
 

KevinCat07

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I'm a left winger and believe that Abortion regardless of the circumstance is murder. Life begins at conception, this is scientifically proven. You are a murderer if you think otherwise.

I tend to lean towards this. In many ways, Abortion is a modern day holocaust. It is, in my opinion, the darkest and uglisest face of extreme leftist thought, although many of them, including democrats, homosexuals and feminists actually do oppose it which I can commend them for.
 

rizzo

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I tend to lean towards this. In many ways, Abortion is a modern day holocaust. It is, in my opinion, the darkest and uglisest face of extreme leftist thought, although many of them, including democrats, homosexuals and feminists actually do oppose it which I can commend them for.
Jeez not wanting to take extremes or anything. Comparing it to the holocaust is to far. You are forgetting that it is just a cell. It can't think and has never lived.

People are happy to let rats die for research but o no lets not kill a cell in someones body.

I find it hard to see why femanists are jumping up and down about it. Wouldn't having a knitting needle shoved up there be worse then a having an abortion. Let alone more demeaning.

Can't see why Homosexuals are jumping up and down either. It doesn't even effect them.

Ok. I think the child should be given a chance though with fosters. At least they have a chance - they aren't even given that if their brains are sucked out, or they are burnt/baked.

Re unprotected people - you lie with dogs, you get fleas.
The foster system struggles as it is, let alone with an influx of bastard children coming from parents who don't want them.

So your happy for a mother to not give a sh*t about her children, not look after them, leave them unloved and mooch off the system? All because she didn't have the choice to have an abortion.

It would be worse for the child to live in that environment then it would be for the cell to be aborted.
 

KevinCat07

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Jeez not wanting to take extremes or anything. Comparing it to the holocaust is to far. You are forgetting that it is just a cell. It can't think and has never lived.

People are happy to let rats die for research but o no lets not kill a cell in someones body.

I find it hard to see why femanists are jumping up and down about it. Wouldn't having a knitting needle shoved up there be worse then a having an abortion. Let alone more demeaning.

Can't see why Homosexuals are jumping up and down either. It doesn't even effect them.



The foster system struggles as it is, let alone with an influx of bastard children coming from parents who don't want them.

So your happy for a mother to not give a sh*t about her children, not look after them, leave them unloved and mooch off the system? All because she didn't have the choice to have an abortion.

It would be worse for the child to live in that environment then it would be for the cell to be aborted.

No it is the beginning of life. The merging of the sperm and ovum which forms the Zygote is the beginning of a life.

Countless doctors have agreed this is where it begins.

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html.
 

rizzo

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But the adoption system isn't. The waiting list to adopt is MASSIVE.
Then you get parent's who only want to adopt certain children. You know their little perfect one. Then you have the psychological effects on the child when they found out they are adopted.

"Why don't my real parent's love me" type of thing.
 

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