Abortion

[Karl Pilkington]

Then you get parent's who only want to adopt certain children. You know their little perfect one. Then you have the psychological effects on the child when they found out they are adopted.

"Why don't my real parent's love me" type of thing.

My best mate is adopted, and probably the best bloke you're ever likely to meet. Very level-headed, and yes, the conversation about where the child came from might be hard, but it isn't as hard as killing the child before its born.

All I'm saying is, the adoption process is definitely under-used in comparison to abortion.

I'm PRO-abortion, in that I think women have the right to go down that road. I just think adoption, as an option, seems to be seen as a relic of the 50's and 60's, when in fact there are literally thousands of couples out there who can provide a great life for the 'cells' a woman might be keen to get rid of.

 

[rizzo]

No it is the beginning of life. The merging of the sperm and ovum which forms the Zygote is the beginning of a life.

Countless doctors have agreed this is where it begins.

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html.

Yeah i know that, learnt all about it. It still isn't a fully functioning human thought.

Its better ending something at the start then getting half way through and deciding on not wanting it.

I'll mention again, would you be willing to support the influx on government reliance when these children/ parents grow up. Are you happy to pay extra taxes to support that?

Are you happy for the standards of society to drop when these little bastards run around because they have had no guidance from their parents.

Are you happy for 16 year old mothers to raise children, when they are just children? Robbing them of a life and an education?

 

[rizzo]

My best mate is adopted, and probably the best bloke you're ever likely to meet. Very level-headed, and yes, the conversation about where the child came from might be hard, but it isn't as hard as killing the child before its born.

All I'm saying is, the adoption process is definitely under-used in comparison to abortion.

I'm PRO-abortion, in that I think women have the right to go down that road. I just think adoption, as an option, seems to be seen as a relic of the 50's and 60's, when in fact there are literally thousands of couples out there who can provide a great life for the 'cells' a woman might be keen to get rid of.

Agreed Karl, totally. There will always be some good and bad cases, and there are a lot of instances where it is bad.

Adoption is great option for parents who are not keen to abort, but do not want to raise a child.

Could the hospital system, the government systems, and the adoption system coping with a MASSIVE influx of children because adoption is illegal.

Maybe they should make it illegal. I'll start an abortion agency. "Rizzo and Co cell extractors.

Only need a knitting needle and a bottle of vodka.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Yeah i know that, learnt all about it. It still isn't a fully functioning human thought.

Its better ending something at the start then getting half way through and deciding on not wanting it.

I'll mention again, would you be willing to support the influx on government reliance when these children/ parents grow up. Are you happy to pay extra taxes to support that?

You're being a nanny. Most people go through hardships in life, and learn to work through it. To not give these people (and that's what they are) the benefit of the doubt the chance is just elitism. I am FOR abortion, but not for the reason that life would be "hard" for the people being born.

Are you happy for the standards of society to drop when these little bastards run around because they have had no guidance from their parents.

This is just getting sick. You have serious issues if you believe this shit.

Are you happy for 16 year old mothers to raise children, when they are just children? Robbing them of a life and an education?

16 year old mothers were much more common in previous generations, and well, we're (the human race) still alive and kicking aren't we? Making judgments on people who haven't even been born is seriously ____ed up.

 

[rizzo]

You're being a nanny. Most people go through hardships in life, and learn to work through it. To not give these people (and that's what they are) the benefit of the doubt the chance is just elitism. I am FOR abortion, but not for the reason that life would be "hard" for the people being born.

This is just getting sick. You have serious issues if you believe this shit.


16 year old mothers were much more common in previous generations, and well, we're (the human race) still alive and kicking aren't we? Making judgments on people who haven't even been born is seriously ____ed up.

Life would be hard not just for the people being born, but also for the people who are having the child. If these people struggle to provide for themselves how can you adequately expect them to provide for another person?
Head in the sand much? It is happening now and these parents actually wanted the child. Can you imagine the treatment some children would get if the parent's didn't want the children.

Some children struggle as it is now because the parents only care about themselves. Think about it if the parent's don't want the child. I'm not saying they will not provide them with a roof over their head, however they would not be treated as well as other children.

The 16 yo parent has been born... How many young mothers go back to school once they have had a child? Granted it is made easier with schools now running parent programs, but still it is taking away their life.

 

[KevinCat07]

Yeah i know that, learnt all about it. It still isn't a fully functioning human thought.

Its better ending something at the start then getting half way through and deciding on not wanting it.

I'll mention again, would you be willing to support the influx on government reliance when these children/ parents grow up. Are you happy to pay extra taxes to support that?

Are you happy for the standards of society to drop when these little bastards run around because they have had no guidance from their parents.

Are you happy for 16 year old mothers to raise children, when they are just children? Robbing them of a life and an education?

Well we need seperatist agents to deal with that I say. If you are suggesting that all of these "cells" can't be reasonable members of society though you are wrong. Amongst the crap you are bound to find so worthwhile people.

If those people found God the standards would only go up. With adoptive parents they can onyl go up as well. Send them straight to thir nearest church.

Oh boo hoo for the mother? How about closing her legs then? Lie with dogs....you know the rest.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Head in the sand much? It is happening now and these parents actually wanted the child. Can you imagine the treatment some children would get if the parent's didn't want the children.

What is happening exactly? People are struggling? Newsflash, people have struggled for generations. People will always struggle. there are numerous reasons to be against abortion, but the life the 'cells' might lead isn't one of them.

Some children struggle as it is now because the parents only care about themselves. Think about it if the parent's don't want the child. I'm not saying they will not provide them with a roof over their head, however they would not be treated as well as other children.

That's life. Deprivation of that life is a different debate altogether.

The 16 yo parent has been born... How many young mothers go back to school once they have had a child? Granted it is made easier with schools now running parent programs, but still it is taking away their life.

Yep. And they can always put that child up for adoption, or attempt to raise them as best they can. My grandmother raised 8 kids, she had her first when she was 16. We did alright.

 

[KevinCat07]

Sorry rizzo but you ideas are a prime example of extreme leftism and I really can't understand how you can sleep at night with such distasteful thoughts on the issue.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Sorry rizzo but you ideas are a prime example of extreme leftism and I really can't understand how you can sleep at night with such distasteful thoughts on the issue.

Distasteful is the exact word I was looking for.

He's making judgments on people that he doesn't know, or even worse, that nobody will ever know.

 

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

"The fetus, though enclosed in the womb of its mother, is already a human being and it is a most monstrous crime to rob it of the life which it has not yet come to enjoy. If it seems more horrible to kill a man in his own house than in a field, because a man's house is his most secure place of refuge, it ought surely be deemed more atrocious to destroy a fetus in the womb before it has come to light." ~ John Calvin

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[rizzo]

Sorry rizzo but you ideas are a prime example of extreme leftism and I really can't understand how you can sleep at night with such distasteful thoughts on the issue.

Left yes, extreme left.... no.... I'm not a communist.

Very easily. I sleep well knowing that if it happened to me and my gf, we have options that we can take to make sure we can continue our life as best as possible.

For some people it is just not feasible to have a child. I'll take it using me as an example.

Myself - I have enough money for petrol, some food when i'm not home and a bit of loose change i put away to save for a house.

I can't afford to go out and use cheaper options to make the most from my $180 a week. Mind you, i'm not on any payments from the government. And refuse to even go down that option.

My GF - Works 20 -30 hours a week. She is out of home and has to pay rent, petrol all food and other expenses.

She also would be lucky to get a bit of loose change at the end of the week.

If a child was to come along, it would be physically impossible to be able to provide for it properly.

I'm not crying poor, there are heaps worse off then me. But who are you to say who should and should not have children? You cant force everyone to have a kid just because they are pregnant.


Kev, do you protests against the killing of rats for science? Do you eat meat? Animals have a right to life to. You can't argue that a cell has more right to life then a cow in a paddock. The cow has lived and breathed and experienced things. A cell has not.

Distasteful is the exact word I was looking for.

He's making judgments on people that he doesn't know, or even worse, that nobody will ever know.

So is KevinCat. Telling 16yo's to keep their legs closed, and saying they deserve it if they have sex without protection. How do you know the situation that they are living in? and the reasons they do it?

Just because someone has a different opinion, doesn't make my opinion distasteful. Why? because i believe people should have options in life? That they shouldn't be control by accidents.

What is happening exactly? People are struggling? Newsflash, people have struggled for generations. People will always struggle. there are numerous reasons to be against abortion, but the life the 'cells' might lead isn't one of them.

That's life. Deprivation of that life is a different debate altogether.


Yep. And they can always put that child up for adoption, or attempt to raise them as best they can. My grandmother raised 8 kids, she had her first when she was 16. We did alright.

Why? Obviously if they wanted the child and couldn't provide adoption is a very good option. But it is also mentally stressing on both parents to give a child away for adoption. If they think Abortion is a better option for them, then they can't be deprived of that right.


How can you simply pass it off as that is life? Its obvious that you have never suffered anything close to what some children have had to put up with.

Calling it "life" is a cop out of the highest order. Tell that to the kid in the playground who has not been given breakfast, is wearing torn clothes and whose parents wouldn't care about where he is.

Was never saying that you didn't do alright at all. And your grandma has done a fastastic job, especially in a lot harder times then it is now. It is different now though. There is more emphasis on schooling and getting an education. 16yo's cannot effectively manage both at the one time.


Neither of you have answered my question. Are you happy to pay EXTRA tax in order to continue to fund center link (Who will have to pay even more out to help parents who can't afford to look after their children.), To pay more taxes to improve hospitals so they can cope with a significant upgrades to maternity wards.

 

[fairdinkum]

To all of you 'pro-lifers': Why is an unborn human cell (or collection of cells) more important than a fully grown cow? Do you object to cows being slaughtered for food? Are you all vegetarians?

If you answered no to either of the last two questions, would you care to explain to us all why unborn cells are more important than animal life?

EDIT: Saw Rizzo's post above after posting this post. All similarities are coincidental.

 

[rizzo]

To all of you 'pro-lifers': Why is an unborn human cell (or collection of cells) more important than a fully grown cow? Do you object to cows being slaughtered for food? Are you all vegetarians?

If you answered no to either of the last two questions, would you care to explain to us all why unborn cells are more important than animal life?

Spot on FD. Hypocritical isn't it?

 

[linga_is_no1]

Spot on FD. Hypocritical isn't it?

Your not suggesting a cow's life is more important than a humans are you? I don't think that your not getting a grip on the full picture, they're not cells their babies, their alive. Just like you and me. You are the worse kind of pro-choice, you deny life as a matter of convenience. You are willing to kill someone just so you don't have to look after him/her. Wake up to yourself and the scientific research. Life begins at conception, stupidity begins when you deny fact.

 

[rizzo]

Your not suggesting a cow's life is more important than a humans are you? I don't think that your not getting a grip on the full picture, they're not cells their babies, their alive. Just like you and me. You are the worse kind of pro-choice, you deny life as a matter of convenience. You are willing to kill someone just so you don't have to look after him/her. Wake up to yourself and the scientific research. Life begins at conception, stupidity begins when you deny fact.

Your arguing that everyone is equal, my life and a cells life are equal. Why don't animals have the same right as us. They have just as much right to belong on this earth as we do.

It may be the beginning of life, but they are not babies. A baby is what comes out of the oven at the end.

 

[Daveo]

Your not suggesting a cow's life is more important than a humans are you? I don't think that your not getting a grip on the full picture, they're not cells their babies, their alive. Just like you and me. You are the worse kind of pro-choice, you deny life as a matter of convenience. You are willing to kill someone just so you don't have to look after him/her. Wake up to yourself and the scientific research. Life begins at conception, stupidity begins when you deny fact.

You assume that Humans are special in some way. We are just another species of animal in a massive universe ... this show isn't all about us.

 

[linga_is_no1]

Your arguing that everyone is equal, my life and a cells life are equal. Why don't animals have the same right as us. They have just as much right to belong on this earth as we do.

It may be the beginning of life, but they are not babies. A baby is what comes out of the oven at the end.

So by your logic a baby becomes a baby when its born, but prior to that its just a cell of no worth just like a cow cell. So according to you, I could perform a abortion a day before the baby is due to be born and that would be fine as it 'just a cell'. Your logic is not only simpleminded its stinks of ignorance of scientific fact to.

 

[rizzo]

So by your logic a baby becomes a baby when its born, but prior to that its just a cell of no worth just like a cow cell. So according to you, I could perform a abortion a day before the baby is due to be born and that would be fine as it 'just a cell'. Your logic is not only simpleminded its stinks of ignorance of scientific fact to.

I didn't make myself as clear in my last post as i should have, and you have pointed it out. Obviously it becomes a human while inside. But there is a cut off when abortions are not allowed anymore. After that time, stiff, they need to deal with the child. But up until that time they should have the choice on whether they want to keep it or have an abortion.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

How can you simply pass it off as that is life? Its obvious that you have never suffered anything close to what some children have had to put up with.

Calling it "life" is a cop out of the highest order. Tell that to the kid in the playground who has not been given breakfast, is wearing torn clothes and whose parents wouldn't care about where he is.

Like I said, my parents grew up that way - and yes, that's life.

And your whole point about higher taxes etc is offensive to start with (i.e. that we shouldn't use tax to help the poor) but secondly, poor people are the LEAST likely to have abortions. The Baby Bonus has made sure of that.

Like I said, I'm pro-choice to an extent (around 18 weeks) and after that, I consider it murder.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

I didn't make myself as clear in my last post as i should have, and you have pointed it out. Obviously it becomes a human while inside. But there is a cut off when abortions are not allowed anymore. After that time, stiff, they need to deal with the child. But up until that time they should have the choice on whether they want to keep it or have an abortion.

Interesting. Seems me and you have the same stance, but disagree vehemently on the basis for that stance.

That is usually a sign that a stance is the most logical - when people arrive at that stance from completely different points of view.

 

[rickyp]

personally, i think abortion should be legal.

However, I hate it that people think they have the right to tell those involved with the pregnancy what they can and can't do. Especially the church, sure it goes against THEIR BELIEFS, but we don't all agree with those beliefs in the first place.

So, should be up to those involved, always.

 

[SolidTiger]

Life would be hard not just for the people being born, but also for the people who are having the child. If these people struggle to provide for themselves how can you adequately expect them to provide for another person?
Head in the sand much? It is happening now and these parents actually wanted the child. Can you imagine the treatment some children would get if the parent's didn't want the children.

Some children struggle as it is now because the parents only care about themselves. Think about it if the parent's don't want the child. I'm not saying they will not provide them with a roof over their head, however they would not be treated as well as other children.

The 16 yo parent has been born... How many young mothers go back to school once they have had a child? Granted it is made easier with schools now running parent programs, but still it is taking away their life.

I agree Rizzo. I will go as far to say that when a woman is pregnant she should be assessed of wheather she is capable of adequately looking after the child financially, emotionally and physically. If she or the father or guardian who is going to help raise the child has a criminal record or a history of heavy drug abuse should heavily come into consideration. If she is not able to meet the criteria then she should be persuaded to have an abortion and if she doesn't, then the child will be taken off her when it is born and given to a family that would look after the child properly. No child should face hardship in life. It is wrong that in society you need a licence to own a dog but not one to raise a child.

 

[mr_cellotape]

they're not cells their babies, their alive. Just like you and me.

Err, no, the rest of us don't live in a womb.

If you take the little parasite out of its host at any stage in the first few months, it can't survive. So how exactly are they "just like you and me"?

 

[SolidTiger]

I agree Rizzo. I will go as far to say that when a woman is pregnant she should be assessed of wheather she is capable of adequately looking after the child financially, emotionally and physically. If she is not able to meet the criteria then she should be persuaded to have an abortion and if she doesn't, then the child will be taken off her when it is born and given to a family that would look after the child properly. No child should face hardship in life. It is wrong that in society you need a licence to own a dog but not one to raise a child.

An extreme example of where a person fials to meet the criteria is in the Herald Sun today.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23938524-661,00.html

She has a history of harming a child, has a criminal record, she appears to be struggling with money and the father left her so there is no adequate male role model. The authorities should heavily persuade the mother to have an abortion. If she refuses then the child should be taken from her when it is born.

All pregnancys should be assessed though, not just the ones where the mother has a history of child abuse. If all pregnacys were assessed then her first child would not have died in the first place because she would have likely to be found unfit to raise the child in the first place.

 

[FIGJAM]

I am against abortion from the time of conception, although I am in favour of it being permitted to be undertaken in clinics with professional counselling.

There will obviously be extenuating circumstances whereby the woman (hopefully supported by her partner and family) will feel that she has no choice but to undertake a termination. In this event, I would prefer that they are provided professional and hygenic conditions within which to enact their free will, rather than the old coathanger jobs, or sourcing illegal drugs like RU-486.

I have no political leaning.

I think this is a fair medium.