Abortion

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Leeda said:
absolutely... driving forward... choose carefully...
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Ever onwards and upwards

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Baby Duck said:
Against it. Cannot stand many of the false dilemma arguments from its advocates either like insisting that folks should adopt all these unwanted children. Its indicative of a sick mind that views the vulnerable as nothing but trash that should be disposed of. How any society treats its most vulnerable members is a pretty good indication of where that society is and where its going. Bumping off children, shoving old folks into homes where they are no longer seen or heard, and offering people euthanasia pills is a sign of a sick society with a dark future.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
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What about a society who forces vulnerable women into going through a 9 month pregnancy and the agony of childbirth?Or children been born into an environment where they are not wanted?

Ironically agreed with the rest of your post.
 
Leeda said:
champ you are entitled to call me what you will but baby killer won't be it...

you have a defective gene if you can just calll people killers just because you can't rescue them yourself...
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If I killed the baby inside the pregnant woman I would be a baby killer, but if the pregnant woman killed the baby she is not.

That is some interesting logic to grasp.

Im actually okay with it but I would hope that at least there is some sort of counselling offered. My issue is when the father wants the abortion but the mother doesnt. In that case I think the father should no longer be financially responsible for the child.
 
Run n Spread said:
What about a society who forces vulnerable women into going through a 9 month pregnancy and the agony of childbirth?Or children been born into an environment where they are not wanted?

Ironically agreed with the rest of your post.
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First post I have read where the person carrying the child, her mental and physical health is considered and is being asked to carry an unwanted pregnancy full term. Not taking into consideration how she became pregnant, for example a 16 year old rape victim dealing with the trauma of not only the act but carrying a child full term. As a parent, how would any of you deal with this? Whose decision should it be if doctor advises for abortion?
 
Maggie5 said:
First post I have read where the person carrying the child, her mental and physical health is considered and is being asked to carry an unwanted pregnancy full term. Not taking into consideration how she became pregnant, for example a 16 year old rape victim dealing with the trauma of not only the act but carrying a child full term. As a parent, how would any of you deal with this? Whose decision should it be if doctor advises for abortion?
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Exactly. And this is about the only only point where I disagree with the Catholic Church but understand there reasoning however much I vermently oppose.

In your case above they will say murder is a worse crime then rape so tough s**t.

Now most others say well of course in extenuating circumstances she gets an abortion. But why those circumstances? What makes an unwanted pregnancy (biology and unwanted parent wise) any different or less anxious then a 30 yo married women who was careless with contraception and is freaking out? This highlights the whole problem with the abortion debate. It is all about society trying to punish people for not fitting in with their moral standard and imposing their will on others. In essence punishing people for having sex outside what they deem personally appropriate. No different to an Iranian theocratic nutcase making laws about this.

IMO If a woman doesn't want a child (up to the point it is not viable as a life so no not 8.9999 months into a pregnancy) then she should have safe access to a legal abortion. And in a lot of cases get one.

If a man doesn't want a child he should be able to not sign a birth certificate and/or just be a sperm donor/have access to DNA testing at birth.

My last para will never get up but hey at least the world is making progress on the above.
 
HairyO said:
Im actually okay with it but I would hope that at least there is some sort of counselling offered. My issue is when the father wants the abortion but the mother doesnt. In that case I think the father should no longer be financially responsible for the child.
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I actually agree with this, and with some thought it could swing both ways. If the father wanted the baby and the mother did not, it might be possible for her to carry the baby to term in some kind of 'compensated surrogacy' deal before ending her part of parenthood at birth.

Having said THAT, I know childbirth isn't easy. Us blokes really do have the better end of the deal as far as that goes.
 
Maggie5 said:
First post I have read where the person carrying the child, her mental and physical health is considered and is being asked to carry an unwanted pregnancy full term. Not taking into consideration how she became pregnant, for example a 16 year old rape victim dealing with the trauma of not only the act but carrying a child full term. As a parent, how would any of you deal with this? Whose decision should it be if doctor advises for abortion?
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Why do people continually present the most absurd outliers to justify their position?
 

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Geelong_Sicko said:
I actually agree with this, and with some thought it could swing both ways. If the father wanted the baby and the mother did not, it might be possible for her to carry the baby to term in some kind of 'compensated surrogacy' deal before ending her part of parenthood at birth.

Having said THAT, I know childbirth isn't easy. Us blokes really do have the better end of the deal as far as that goes.
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Nah I dont think forcing women to carry the baby is right. Opens a Pandora's Box.

But certainly allowing the father to opt out is common sense.
 
Snake_Baker said:
Why do people continually present the most absurd outliers to justify their position?
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Legally speaking rape is sex without consent, right? So if you have non-consensual sexual contact that results in pregnancy, shouldn't the woman (the most common victim of rape) have the right to nullify the consequences of that crime?

Yes, I said it. The resultant life that is forming is a result of crime. Not that the child is 'evil' or whatever, but it was not formed by consent. It has no real right to be there in that uterus.
 
Geelong_Sicko said:
Legally speaking rape is sex without consent, right? So if you have non-consensual sexual contact that results in pregnancy, shouldn't the woman (the most common victim of rape) have the right to nullify the consequences of that crime?

Yes, I said it. The resultant life that is forming is a result of crime. Not that the child is 'evil' or whatever, but it was not formed by consent. It has no real right to be there in that uterus.
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If we made broad reaching laws based upon minute probabilities, society would cease to function (it's actually heading that way anyway).

Just syringe the thing immediately upon medical examination and be done with it.

What's next? What should be done if a 16 year old is raped, ovulating, get's pregnant and is locked in a cellar for six months afterwards? Should that be the basis of a definitive law? What proportion of ~ 3,500 annual rape victims in Australia are 16 and get pregnant?
 
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HairyO said:
Nah I dont think forcing women to carry the baby is right. Opens a Pandora's Box.

But certainly allowing the father to opt out is common sense.
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With the advances in medical science leading towards artificial wombs anything is possible I guess

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-womb-that-could-help-prematurely-born-babies

Scientists have created an "artificial womb" in the hopes of someday using the device to save babies born extremely prematurely.

So far the device has only been tested on fetal lambs. A study published Tuesday involving eight animals found the device appears effective at enabling very premature fetuses to develop normally for about a month.

"We've been extremely successful in replacing the conditions in the womb in our lamb model," says Alan Flake, a fetal surgeon at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia who led the study published in the journal Nature Communications.

"They've had normal growth. They've had normal lung maturation. They've had normal brain maturation. They've had normal development in every way that we can measure it," Flake says.

Flake says the group hopes to test the device on very premature human babies within three to five years...
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But you're right. There is always an ethical Pandora's Box involved with medical advances, especially ones that change how humans grow. We can artificially inject female eggs with sperm already (IVF). If we can grow them to term outside a human body then the last piece of the puzzle will be there. Kids born to donors, but essentially parentless. The military would LOVE it.

Expendable humans?
 
Snake_Baker said:
If we made broad reaching laws based upon minute probabilities, society would cease to function (it's actually heading that way anyway).

Just syringe the thing immediately upon medical examination and be done with it.

What's next? What should be done if a 16 year old is raped, ovulating, get's pregnant and is locked in a cellar for six months afterwards? Should that be the basis of a definitive law? What proportion of ~ 3,500 annual rape victims in Australia are 16 and get pregnant?
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Obviously in THAT case nothing can be done. Legally the girl ought to be able to absolve herself of the obligations of motherhood if she so chooses due to the circumstances.
 
Geelong_Sicko said:
Obviously in THAT case nothing can be done. Legally the girl ought to be able to absolve herself of the obligations of motherhood if she so chooses due to the circumstances.
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Of course. It's no one elses bloody business!!!

Looking forward to a time when everyone is sterilised until BOTH participants actually WANT to have a kid.
 
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