Opinion Academies and Father - Son draft changes

[Apex36]

Unsure about the FS bidding and best ways to make it work. It needs to stay and is important. Think the SA and WA clubs have had the rough end of the stick mostly in this regard but.

As for developing players, the AFL create and fund academies in the northern states and therefore the poorer clubs wouldn't wear the cost. All players from northern states academies just go into the normal draft. If swans are on top they don't access to the player, if they are struggling they do. I can't see a problem with this system.

Will add since the turn of the century 1\3 of the premierships have been won by two teams in the Northern states, so don't see how they have been disadvantaged.

The irony is that the AFL already funds the academies (except maybe the Swans one) indirectly. These clubs don't turn a profit at all anyway, and are propped up by the AFL financially, so while the clubs run the academies, the AFL fund them. With the equalisation tax, this means that clubs like Collingwood and Hawthorn are actually contributing to this. Yay.

 

[Laurie Holden]

The irony is that the AFL already funds the academies (except maybe the Swans one) indirectly. These clubs don't turn a profit at all anyway, and are propped up by the AFL financially, so while the clubs run the academies, the AFL fund them. With the equalisation tax, this means that clubs like Collingwood and Hawthorn are actually contributing to this. Yay.

Yeah I know and it blows. I was suggesting that no clubs should have their own academies up there and the AFL needs to grow it. Unfortunately that still means Pies and other successful clubs will be paying for it, but think that is the only way to grow the market up there whilst making it fair to all clubs.

Totally agree with your previous quote BTW.

 

[Apex36]

Yeah I know and it blows. I was suggesting that no clubs should have their own academies up there and the AFL needs to grow it. Unfortunately that still means Pies and other successful clubs will be paying for it, but think that is the only way to grow the market up there whilst making it fair to all clubs.

Totally agree with your previous quote BTW.

Yep, if the AFL wants to grow the game up there that's great, but by letting the clubs run it they are compromising the integrity of the drafting system. Either let all clubs create academies there, or alternatively run the AFL academies themselves and put the kids in to the national draft. My preference would be for the AFL to run them, so it doesn't put poorer clubs at a disadvantage.

 

[jackcass]

Wingard was an isolated incident and had nothing to do with any academies. If you think that alarm bells wouldn't be going off at AFL house if all of a sudden a bunch of the Port academy playeers started pulling the same stunt you're delusional.

As for the argument of starting from scratch, blah blah blah, spare me. The Swans and Lions are both well established teams who have won premierships and have had significant concessions from the AFL over the years to help with that. The academy concessions are the icing on the already enormous cake they have been fed over the last 20 years. As for GC and GWS, their draft concessions over the past 4-5 years have put them in a position that is the envy of the competition. CG are on the verge of becoming a powerhouse, and GWS aren't far behind them. They will be the teams to beat for the next decade, yet apparently they need more help? You can tell yourself all you like that your arguments are strong, but the fact is that these teams are all going to be competitive over the next decade (longer if they draft well, regardless of academies). They don't need the extra help on top of the already vast concessions the AFL has given them.

The whole point of the Academy system is meant to be to grow the game in the northern states. If that's the case, then let all clubs make academies, not just 4 clubs which are able to cultivate and then take their states best talent ahead of everyone else in what's supposed to be an uncompromised draft system. Just because there are no strong leagues there yet doesn't mean squat. They have the same access to all the highly rated youngsters from around the country as everyone else, and have shown they will not hesitate to recruit from interstate if that's the best option available. There is no good reason for them to have first pick from their own states when no teams from Vic/SA/WA who may be struggling (see Melbourne, StK, WB currently) do not have the same advantage.

Why do they need to be individual academies, why not just 1 for Queensland and 1 for NSW and even 1 for NT, run by the AFL for the benefit of all clubs.

 

[Rusty Beam]

I'm actually a big fan of the changes proposed to both systems. Whilst the points system is complicated it sees clubs pay fair market value for elite talent.

In my view both the fs and academy should only provide priority access to these juniors. Not allow them to be obtained at a discount.

 

[Mkcaptain]

I think father-son should at least get the same discount as academy players. Especially since there is much more chance of academy players coming through than father-sons

 

[soreplums]

Why can't we just bring back something similar to the NSW Scholarship Program in which every team had the opportunity to develop players from NSW, if they just changed it to both NSW and QLD I think that would be even better because firstly all teams get the chance at developing players and secondly you would probably see more players come through from those states. The idea of having the academies isn't what people find unfair, it's that those four teams are the only ones that can have them which pisses people off.

I agree. Why not have Victorian clubs set up there own academies interstate that perhaps for clubs in the lower financial stakes being partly funded by the AFL? It will grow the game and give clubs direct access to a larger talent pool.

NSW, QLD, NT and Tassie,

 

[soreplums]

I think you're missing the point. Vic/SA/WA clubs dont have the right to start their own academies, and if they did, they certainly wouldn't get draft concessions to draw from them.

Father/son picks are few and far between. A club might be lucky to get 2-3 good prospects in a decade. Sydney finished second, got the best mid in last years draft for pick 18, and they're likely to pick up two more this year who are also very highly rated, one via father/son.

I have little issue with the academy changes, as it forces the clubs to pay a fair price. I do think that the father/son discount should be more than the academy though, as it is a wonderful niche our game has that encourages the romance of having multiple generations play for the one club, and every single club has access to father/son picks sooner or later, whereas academy players come through every year.

Perhaps worth targeting a Hanneberry/ Mitchell?

 

[TradeDraft]

I think father-son should at least get the same discount as academy players. Especially since there is much more chance of academy players coming through than father-sons

The Academies get players every year and Father and Sons might be few between them. Teams could go 10 Years before a Descent Father/Son Shows Up

 

[Vicky Park]

This is a good account here. I was far more enlightened after reading this.

http://www.bigfooty.com/news/2015/01/the-afl-making-it-up-as-it-goes-along-again/

 

[TradeDraft]

This is a good account here. I was far more enlightened after reading this.

http://www.bigfooty.com/news/2015/01/the-afl-making-it-up-as-it-goes-along-again/

I do believe that they just make stuff up.

Like the Stupid Sub Rule

 

[cptkirk]

will the read this entire thread later so apologies if its in here somewhere but who funds the academy's at the moment?

 

[Apex36]

will the read this entire thread later so apologies if its in here somewhere but who funds the academy's at the moment?

The clubs that run them do, but pretty much all of them survive on AFL handouts, so the AFL pretty much funds them anyway, which means by proxy, wealthier clubs like us and Hawthorn contribute to them via the footy dept tax.

 

[cptkirk]

i thought so i'm a swans supported and understood we pay a mill or so a yr to fund it so why doesn't ed get on board and do one at collingwood?

 

[jackcass]

i thought so i'm a swans supported and understood we pay a mill or so a yr to fund it so why doesn't ed get on board and do one at collingwood?

The acadamies are for the development/promotion of the game in non-traditional footy states. Not sure Victoria meets the criteria. And all our spare cash goes via the AFL to Sydney, GWS, GCS, and Brisbane to prop them up....

 

[JA27]

would love to see Sydney's financial reports to see exactly what the receive and spend, unfortunately the franchise teams refuse even to their own "members"...

 

[TradeDraft]

Eddie says it will Destroy the AFL. How they Northern States have Academies:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...ed - Academies ‘will destroy the game’: Eddie

 

[Apex36]

i thought so i'm a swans supported and understood we pay a mill or so a yr to fund it so why doesn't ed get on board and do one at collingwood?

We used to have a NSW academy programme, but the AFL in all their wisdom scrapped it.

Seriously, if all the clubs could do it, why would there be an uproar? The whole issue is that by having the academies, NSW and Qld clubs essentially have access to high quality kids ahead of the rest of the comp, every year, whilst other clubs may get a good father/son pick once or twice a decade of lucky.

Now it seems they can usurp other clubs father/son prospects too, as seen by Longmires sons etc. but apparently there's nothing unfair about that...

 

[TradeDraft]

i thought so i'm a swans supported and understood we pay a mill or so a yr to fund it so why doesn't ed get on board and do one at collingwood?

Because the Southern State Teams are not Allowed to do it.

There use to be a NSW Scholarship deal that the AFL had where any team can sign a 14-15 year old to the Club and work with them.

That is how we got Witts

Would you be happy with that cptkirk

 

[RUNVS]

Because the Southern State Teams are not Allowed to do it.

There use to be a NSW Scholarship deal that the AFL had where any team can sign a 14-15 year old to the Club and work with them.

That is how we got Witts

Port got 2 academy players in 2014.

Also the scholarship scheme failed because it only targeted players that were already really good. It did nothing to help the kids who were never going to make it at an AFL level but still could use the proper coaching.

 

[Apex36]

Port got 2 academy players in 2014.

Also the scholarship scheme failed because it only targeted players that were already really good. It did nothing to help the kids who were never going to make it at an AFL level but still could use the proper coaching.

The sticking point though, is that they weren't given priority access to them. They were taken in the open draft just like any other player.

Keep trying to justify the current system though, it's amusing.

 

[TradeDraft]

Port got 2 academy players in 2014.

Also the scholarship scheme failed because it only targeted players that were already really good. It did nothing to help the kids who were never going to make it at an AFL level but still could use the proper coaching.

Port got 2 Rejects that was not Taken by GWS and 4th round and on picks are a Punt anyway.

Keep trying to justify the current system though, it's amusing.

Just shows that the AFL are wanting the Northern States to Dominate and don’t care about the Traditional Teams and States of AFL

 

[cptkirk]

The acadamies are for the development/promotion of the game in non-traditional footy states. Not sure Victoria meets the criteria. And all our spare cash goes via the AFL to Sydney, GWS, GCS, and Brisbane to prop them up....

We used to have a NSW academy programme, but the AFL in all their wisdom scrapped it.

Seriously, if all the clubs could do it, why would there be an uproar? The whole issue is that by having the academies, NSW and Qld clubs essentially have access to high quality kids ahead of the rest of the comp, every year, whilst other clubs may get a good father/son pick once or twice a decade of lucky.

Now it seems they can usurp other clubs father/son prospects too, as seen by Longmires sons etc. but apparently there's nothing unfair about that...[/QUOTE

does our academy only take nsw juniors or juniors from anywhere?

 

[jackcass]

^^ No, we used to have a NSW scholarship program that was open to all teams, until Sydney sooked all the promising kids out of NSW were being snavelled by interstate sides (Bird excepted), so the AFL scrapped it and set up the Academy. Collingwood got a little innovative and got a group of their signed NSW scholarship players to the 1 club, Sydney Uni from memory, being tutored by Tilt.

 

[TradeDraft]

^^ No, we used to have a NSW scholarship program that was open to all teams, until Sydney sooked all the promising kids out of NSW were being snavelled by interstate sides (Bird excepted), so the AFL scrapped it and set up the Academy. Collingwood got a little innovative and got a group of their signed NSW scholarship players to the 1 club, Sydney Uni from memory, being tutored by Tilt.

and That was working well but as you said the Swans and Giants had a Cry that they did not have Access to all the NSW Kids and scared that other clubs would take the Good Prospects