Academy Watch

[Covertackle]

Maybe they just don't rate Buzza. Will be interesting if other clubs show interest.

In terms of the "go away and work on this..." thing. Well at his age that is kinda the only option left.

Most of the Academy development stuff is done at a younger age. By the time players are draft age the academy lists have been significantly cut back to the cream and if you aren't in the final academy squad and/or being squeezed into Lions reserves games, they don't really have much else to offer you in terms of development opportunities.

2 seasons of AFL and makes the QLD u18 side, 2nd in B&F at 17yo. He is an athletic 6 foot 5 , 100kg aggressive rookie.....

Maybe, considering at how the lions are going, and the lack of depth......we should be rating the 'they' you are talking about...how do 'they ' stand up?

Who are 'they' , and are 'they' doing a good job? Who rates them...? Is this what Mathews and many of the posters on this thread is talking about? Perhaps the raters need rating?

 

[Quigley]

Harris Andrews


I had not seen Andrews before and to tell the truth I was a bit sceptical coming in that we were trying to turn a ruck into KPD when in all likelihood he was not suited to playing back there. The game started exactly to that script. First passage the clearance from the centre coming in quickly, Andrews is caught behind doesn’t react quickly enough and his man marks easily on the lead about 30 out directly in front and goals.


From then on though it was hard not to be enormously impressed. Andrews controlled the back 50 and I don’t think he was beaten again all day. He looks a legitimate 198cm and he plays to his height. He is a bit on the skinny side but has pretty good strength and he was never moved enough that he couldn’t get a fist in. His spoiling really was a feature and he always seemed to be able to get a fist in.


He played off his man a lot and backed his ability to read the ball in the air which seemed virtually always superior to the man he was on. A better forward might have used that to create separation but the few times that the Tassie forwards got the jump on him, Andrews had the pace to close down the leads and get the fist in. He showed good judgement about when to close the space and when to seek the body and get behind. In body on body situations he was moved around a bit but seemed able to hold his ground well enough to spoil the contest. He spoiled most often but he did mark it when it was appropriate and set up forward movements.


Going forward I don’t recall him being a big possession winner but there was not a reluctance to play through him if he was available. His kicking needs to be flattened out a bit but at this level his decision making seemed really good and he had enough feel on his kicks to execute. He set up a few nice movement forward with well weighted kicks.


One of the potential holes in our young defensive talls is for someone to take the 200cm generation of the likes of Daniher and Boyd. At 198cm Andrews looks like he could well be that guy. He is quick, agile and generally moves really nicely for someone that tall. He also looks like a legitimate defender which again many that tall do not. If I was the Lions I would be lining up a list spot for him.

 

[Billy Puller]

Looks looks like we should be able to fill some holes based on the academy. With Maguire most likely retiring and the delisting of lisle (let's be realistic cannot see him getting another year) hammelman and Andrews could come straight in for those two which would be a big win for the academy

 

[BlackGun1]

Harris Andrews


I had not seen Andrews before and to tell the truth I was a bit sceptical coming in that we were trying to turn a ruck into KPD when in all likelihood he was not suited to playing back there. The game started exactly to that script. First passage the clearance from the centre coming in quickly, Andrews is caught behind doesn’t react quickly enough and his man marks easily on the lead about 30 out directly in front and goals.


From then on though it was hard not to be enormously impressed. Andrews controlled the back 50 and I don’t think he was beaten again all day. He looks a legitimate 198cm and he plays to his height. He is a bit on the skinny side but has pretty good strength and he was never moved enough that he couldn’t get a fist in. His spoiling really was a feature and he always seemed to be able to get a fist in.


He played off his man a lot and backed his ability to read the ball in the air which seemed virtually always superior to the man he was on. A better forward might have used that to create separation but the few times that the Tassie forwards got the jump on him, Andrews had the pace to close down the leads and get the fist in. He showed good judgement about when to close the space and when to seek the body and get behind. In body on body situations he was moved around a bit but seemed able to hold his ground well enough to spoil the contest. He spoiled most often but he did mark it when it was appropriate and set up forward movements.


Going forward I don’t recall him being a big possession winner but there was not a reluctance to play through him if he was available. His kicking needs to be flattened out a bit but at this level his decision making seemed really good and he had enough feel on his kicks to execute. He set up a few nice movement forward with well weighted kicks.


One of the potential holes in our young defensive talls is for someone to take the 200cm generation of the likes of Daniher and Boyd. At 198cm Andrews looks like he could well be that guy. He is quick, agile and generally moves really nicely for someone that tall. He also looks like a legitimate defender which again many that tall do not. If I was the Lions I would be lining up a list spot for him.

Kicked 75 goals and finished top 5 in the Under 18 club comp last year as an underager, always rated him

 

[Hollow Knight]

Maybe, considering at how the lions are going, and the lack of depth......we should be rating the 'they' you are talking about...how do 'they ' stand up?

So wait, the Lions Academy staff are to blame for the current state of the club?

You obviously have an emotional investment in Buzza, that's fine, you aren't the first disappointed parent/friend of a prospect to express their disappointment on Bigfooty, but check the attitude about the club at the door. Frankly, since you brought it up, I think our current level of performance is less about a kid from the Darling Downs and more about being locked out of taking the best kids in our state for four years while the AFL gave you the keys to the kingdom.

Wylie Buzza wouldn't have made us a better team this year. Charlie Dixon would have.

 

[Billy Puller]

I'm gonna be honest and say I never thought wylie was anything more than an average player. To be picked up from another code you have to be an athletic freak like Archie. Wylie doesn't come close.

 

[BlackGun1]

I'm gonna be honest and say I never thought wylie was anything more than an average player. To be picked up from another code you have to be an athletic freak like Archie. Wylie doesn't come close.

Agree, had very little impact in the Gippsland game, very deficient contested marker aswell. Awesome effort for him to come this far from a different code but just doesn't cut it when compared to Andrews, Dennis, Preuss etc

 

[Kevvo]

Looks looks like we should be able to fill some holes based on the academy. With Maguire most likely retiring and the delisting of lisle (let's be realistic cannot see him getting another year) hammelman and Andrews could come straight in for those two which would be a big win for the academy

I'm hopeful Maguire might stick around, but regardless I agree it's an exciting prospect that we could fill a few needs with local kids. Also, nothing will boost the credibility of the academy with local talented kids like a few more success stories.

 

[Covertackle]

I just think with such a short time in the game and with some credible success, he and kids with his background would deserve at least to get tutorial from the Academy. If you don't agree that's fine. Perhaps you have the perfect system in place. Time is... or will tell..

I wish the Lions the best of luck. It is with the lions as it is with the Broncos. They carry QLD on their shoulders. So the good of AFL in the state largely rests with the lions. So I wish the Lions all the best, as I do AFL. The Suns may begin to share some of that burden.

My interest isn't really emotional with the kid. I do know his parents. But it is more that im interested that talent gets the guidance and training it deserves. I still think the system has failed, or is failing the kid. I don't have any other examples to compare, to see if this is one instance of many, or a single oversight. You blokes know better than me, and should be more concerned I guess.

Good luck with it. The Lions keep AFL strong in the state. Every AFL person in QLD should be concerned how the Lions look after its juniors.

 

[Billy Puller]

I just think with such a short time in the game and with some credible success, he and kids with his background would deserve at least to get tutorial from the Academy. If you don't agree that's fine. Perhaps you have the perfect system in place. Time is... or will tell..

I wish the Lions the best of luck. It is with the lions as it is with the Broncos. They carry QLD on their shoulders. So the good of AFL in the state largely rests with the lions. So I wish the Lions all the best, as I do AFL. The Suns may begin to share some of that burden.

My interest isn't really emotional with the kid. I do know his parents. But it is more that im interested that talent gets the guidance and training it deserves. I still think the system has failed, or is failing the kid. I don't have any other examples to compare, to see if this is one instance of many, or a single oversight. You blokes know better than me, and should be more concerned I guess.

Good luck with it. The Lions keep AFL strong in the state. Every AFL person in QLD should be concerned how the Lions look after its juniors.

Wit a fair few mates been in the academy they all love it. Converters it's fair share of union players as well. So I think it's doing a wonderful job

 

[Hollow Knight]

I just think with such a short time in the game and with some credible success, he and kids with his background would deserve at least to get tutorial from the Academy. If you don't agree that's fine. Perhaps you have the perfect system in place. Time is... or will tell..

I wish the Lions the best of luck. It is with the lions as it is with the Broncos. They carry QLD on their shoulders. So the good of AFL in the state largely rests with the lions. So I wish the Lions all the best, as I do AFL. The Suns may begin to share some of that burden.

Good luck with it. The Lions keep AFL strong in the state. Every AFL person in QLD should be concerned how the Lions look after its juniors.

I'm sure we could find just as many sob stories with the Gold Coast academy. Just wanting to play AFL and switching from another code isn't enough. A line has to be drawn somewhere for practicality reasons. I empathise with Wiley that he found himself on the wrong side of said line.

Hope he keeps working hard. Queensland kids don't have to look far beyond Dayne Zorko (speaking of players being let down by the club in their backyard) to see that there are other pathways if you are good enough and keep at it.

My interest isn't really emotional with the kid. I do know his parents. But it is more that im interested that talent gets the guidance and training it deserves. I still think the system has failed, or is failing the kid. I don't have any other examples to compare, to see if this is one instance of many, or a single oversight.

Or maybe not even an oversight at all... willing to entertain that possibility? After all, from what you've told us, its not as though they don't know he exists. He just didn't make the cut.

 

[Fatcat08]

I just think with such a short time in the game and with some credible success, he and kids with his background would deserve at least to get tutorial from the Academy. If you don't agree that's fine. Perhaps you have the perfect system in place. Time is... or will tell..

I wish the Lions the best of luck. It is with the lions as it is with the Broncos. They carry QLD on their shoulders. So the good of AFL in the state largely rests with the lions. So I wish the Lions all the best, as I do AFL. The Suns may begin to share some of that burden.

My interest isn't really emotional with the kid. I do know his parents. But it is more that im interested that talent gets the guidance and training it deserves. I still think the system has failed, or is failing the kid. I don't have any other examples to compare, to see if this is one instance of many, or a single oversight. You blokes know better than me, and should be more concerned I guess.

Good luck with it. The Lions keep AFL strong in the state. Every AFL person in QLD should be concerned how the Lions look after its juniors.

In situations like this where there are personnel involved and calls to be made there will always be a difference of opinion that maybe can be framed as neglect. For every player that seems to have been ignored there are multiple stories of others who have been cared for very well. Inevitable really. Perhaps it was decided that there were some deficiencies that were never going to be ironed out or better prospects perhaps. I don't know the specifics but talent identification and recruiting aren't cut and dry and there will always be massive differences in opinion, otherwise the best players would always get drafted first.

 

[Kevvo]

I don't have any other examples to compare, to see if this is one instance of many, or a single oversight.

I think this is probably the key thing, and I don't really know the answer either. Even with an established, perfectly administered academy system, you would still get the occasional talented kid missing out due to unlucky timing etc. I have no first hand information about the academy's resources, but I expect it's really hard to spot all potential prospects (edit) early enough to make a difference. Regardless, it feels like the academy is starting to build some positive momentum, which as you say is encouraging for AFL in Queensland.

 

[jjami15]

A very big thank you to yourself Quigley. Big fan of the draft personally. Your insights into our academy boys are fantastic. With our current position and likelihood of where we will be I wonder if the likes of Hammelman and Uebergang to a lesser extent will impact on our decision making with our first pick. Obviously if we finish second last that could be decided for us but seeing that the two prior mentioned are KPF possibly that will make us lean towards Wright as that forward/ruck that he plays instead of McCartin who is a pure KPF. Just a query more than anything else. Looking forward to your other write ups and also getting to see them on FoxFooty later. It'll be out of us and NSW I would say for th div 2 title so hope we get one over them.

 

[Caiphus]

There is only so much money to go around for the development of junior prospects and I assume a range of different factors come into the equation. Talented kids are overlooked every day due to a variety of reasons, some are fair and some are unfair/subjective assessments. These are the calls that have to be made - and I'm glad it's not me having to make them.

Not being in either of the Academies isn't the end of the world. Is everyone in the QLD team affiliated with either of the two academies? Not making it on draft day in the year you are first eligible isn't the end of the world now either like it used to be. There are many more pathways for mature agers to make it onto AFL lists then there used to be, and with a late convert sometimes they have to accept that they might need a few more years improving before they can take the step into a professional environment.

 

[Quigley]

Liam Dawson

It was a bit of an odd game from Dawson with him being thrown all over the field. He started down back for the first half but in the second half he was everywhere but at the back. He played significant time in the midfield and deep forward and even had a bit of a run as a ruck at 4 or 5 bounces.

Down back he did a good job directing traffic and turning up when there was a situation that needed to be dealt with. His kicking though was pretty scrappy and he missed quite a few targets. That is something which I would like to see him do better in the next two games. The rest of his game down back though was pretty good. He read the play well and marked it nicely. On the ground he was not as clean as he could be but nothing untoward tended to come from that.

He started the second half in the middle of the ground and the Tassie players were very conscious of him and put a bit of work into keeping him from the ball. Still he managed to read the taps pretty well and was in the vicinity a lot and often managed to get a hand on the ball. With that said he did not managed to actually secure possession very often. He often started a bit off the pack or circle in the middle and tried to get some momentum to the contest. He does not have the really clean hands and ability to make the last second adjustments that the top line inside mids do. That might come with more practice but it is not there yet.

On the outside he was much better and he seemed to be one of the players running to the right spots even if he wasn’t always used. His spread was good and he found space well. He got a few link up balls through the middle and when he got the ball I expected good things to happen. His decision making seems really good but his execution was a bit off this game.

Up forward he was not overly influential but Hammelmann and Uebergang were both on song so he didn’t really need to be. When he did get a chance though he showed great finishing ability. He had two shots for goal both of which never looked like missing. One of those kicks came from a kick which was marked on the line by the opposition. Dawson collected the ball in the wing and evaded two or three opponents looking all the while for a target inside 50. Nothing opened up and when he got to the 50 he decided to kick for the open goals. He kicked about a ¾ strength kick that was dead straight but unfortunately the Tassie guy got back just in time. Really classy bit of play though and he got his goal a minute or two later with some more nice play and great finishing.

Dawson is one of those players who looks like class when he is on the park. The game seems to revolve around him and both teammates and opponents are very conscious of what he is doing. I would like to see him dominate play a bit more and be a bit more efficient by foot but he does look like a player.

 

[Quigley]

Oh in the ruck he was surprisingly competitive. He has a really good jump on him. Don't think he won any taps but he made the opposition ruck earn it.

 

[Covertackle]

I'm sure we could find just as many sob stories t.

That is a good representative of your attitude in this thread .

I'll not return.

 

[Hollow Knight]

That is a good representative of your attitude in this thread .

I'll not return.

You're coming off like an absolute tosser now trying to misinterpret me so you can leave feeling like a martyr. I am simply saying at every academy there are probably players who feel like they were overlooked unfairly. You are the one making the claim that Buzza being overlooked is an "oversight" and an indictment on the Lions Academy in particular.

Your melodramatic overreaction and misinterpretation of what I am saying shows that you are clearly too emotionally invested in this kid to be objective about this.

 

[Quigley]

Matthew Uebergang


This was my first chance to look at him live and get a good look at his work when the ball is not in his area (ie what he does when the camera is not on him). He was quiet in the first half and struggled a bit to get open and impact the game but really came into his own in the second half. I thought he got more than the one goal but he did have four or so shots on goal in the second half and certainly looked dangerous.


Uebergang set up as the FF for Qld and seemed most often to lead toward the sideline leaving the corridor for Hammelmann. In the warm ups he was used a lot by the mids kicking it in but in the game they tended to use Hammelmann more mainly because he was probably more often open. Uebergang showed some really good pace but he did not get separation as easily or often as Hammelmann. Still he got clear his fair share of times in the second half and took some nice marks on the lead.


One thing which he did very well at least two times that I noticed was to put himself in a position to mark in body on body contests. He held his ground from the back and protected the drop zone over his head really nicely to take the ball coming over his shoulder. He took one and dropped one but in each case he showed good strength and really nice judgement of the ball in flight.


He missed a few shots on goal (the wind picked up a bit during the match but it was not particularly strong at any stage) but I thought his technique looked pretty good and in the warm ups he seemed to be finishing well. He was not missing by a lot and I think it likely that on another day he would have ended up with 3 or 4 pretty easily. I did not see anything which worried me overly with his finishing.


Another thing in the second half which was really good was his defensive work. He had at least two chase down tackles on the flankers where he used his pace to hunt down the ball carrier. FM he got a free for one and the other one affected the kick but it was the kind of work you see from Kennedy and Darling of West Coast and it is certainly something we could use.


Overall I thought he and Hammelmann worked well in tandem and complemented each other nicely. There is a fair bit to work with with him and I am looking forward to seeing some more of him in the next two games.

 

[Quigley]

Overall I was really happy with the talls. Less so with the mids so expect them to be not quite so rosey.

 

[Ironmonger]

You're coming off like an absolute tosser now trying to misinterpret me so you can leave feeling like a martyr. I am simply saying at every academy there are probably players who feel like they were overlooked unfairly. You are the one making the claim that Buzza being overlooked is an "oversight" and an indictment on the Lions Academy in particular.

Your melodramatic overreaction and misinterpretation of what I am saying shows that you are clearly too emotionally invested in this kid to be objective about this.

Damn straight.

Poor show tigernova.

 

[Eons]

Awesome work Quigs. Great to hear Hammelmann and Uebergang look like decent prospects. How would they compare to McCartin and Wright? Where would you expect them both to go in the draft if they weren't with our academy?

 

[Kevvo]

Oh in the ruck he was surprisingly competitive. He has a really good jump on him. Don't think he won any taps but he made the opposition ruck earn it.

From memory he's listed at roundabout 190cm, but if he's being run in the ruck and at deep forward a bit is it fair to assume he's grown a little?

 

[Quigley]

Awesome work Quigs. Great to hear Hammelmann and Uebergang look like decent prospects. How would they compare to McCartin and Wright? Where would you expect them both to go in the draft if they weren't with our academy?

Let me have a look at them this week and next when they are playing one consecutive days.