List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[jackster83]

Also shows the importance of multiple top 10 picks over a few years.

And to not spend the majority of your first round picks on defenders.

 

[NTRabbit]

And to not spend the majority of your first round picks on defenders.

Tasmanian defenders.

Undersized ones.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Dawson met with Port in person this morning

Please get this deal done Crows, don't let Port show us up again!

 

[goyoucrows]

Dawson met with Port in person this morning

Please get this deal done Crows, don't let Port show us up again!

So what's the truth behind ch7 ch9 did Meet didn't meet.....has he met us in person yet? Or was port his 1st physical meet?

 

[DaKids]

Interesting take from you, given you take a close interest in it. You don’t hear that much, esp from recruiters and media experts on recruiting.

No you don’t but I think professionals do their very best to nose through every little bit of information. To make it as scientific as possible. And I’d never say luck is everything- otherwise anyone could do it, just that it plays a part.

Young Dawson is being offered quite some $$$ and spoken about as very important. He was pick 56 in 2015. Now at 52 the same year there was a kid called McKenzie Willis. Played 5 games and never heard of again. Lots of things go into making a good AFL player - talent, development, attitude - but I do always feel it’s a bit of luck too in making the right choice.

Im going to do a bit of an edit - I think I originally said “quite a bit of luck” probably should downgrade that to just “a bit of luck “

 

[Fuddnuddler]

Dylan Stephens

15

Dylan Stephens

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

to re-sign with Sydney.

 

[Golumless]

No you don’t but I think professionals do their very best to nose through every little bit of information. To make it as scientific as possible. And I’d never say luck is everything- otherwise anyone could do it, just that it plays a part.

Young Dawson is being offered quite some $$$ and spoken about as very important. He was pick 56 in 2015. Now at 52 the same year there was a kid called McKenzie Willis. Played 5 games and never heard of again. Lots of things go into making a good AFL player - talent, development, attitude - but I do always feel it’s a bit of luck too in making the right choice.

Im going to do a bit of an edit - I think I originally said “quite a bit of luck” probably should downgrade that to just “a bit of luck “

No, quite a bit of luck is probably underselling it.

Needing to land at the right club where the player won't end up being ruined, needing opportunities to open up (i.e. it does not matter how good of a key forward prospect you are if Franklin/Roughhead are the 1-2 punch ahead of you), needing to stay healthy at the right time (and throughout your career).

You could firmly argue that the single most important factor to making it is luck, with everything else just increasing the chance a player will be lucky.

 

[DaKids]

No, quite a bit of luck is probably underselling it.

Needing to land at the right club, needing opportunities to open up for you (i.e. it does not matter how good of a key forward prospect you are if Franklin/Roughhead are the 1-2 punch ahead of you), needing to stay healthy at the right time (and throughout your career).

You could firmly argue that the single most important factor to making it is luck.

Thanks for the support on that one - I didn’t want to offend anyone

 

[Dudersaurus]

No way was McCartin a clear first choice at the time, many questioned his ordinary athleticism and also the fact he had to manage type 1 diabetes.

I'm not a recruiter and don't watch junior Vic footy, but I do remember that McCartin was described as a lock for pick 1 pre-draft in many fantasy drafts.

The question though is was that based on talent or Intel? I assume intel if talent spotters felt differently.

I would also add that Petracca was looking like a spud for several years.

 

[Mutineer]

No you don’t but I think professionals do their very best to nose through every little bit of information. To make it as scientific as possible. And I’d never say luck is everything- otherwise anyone could do it, just that it plays a part.

Young Dawson is being offered quite some $$$ and spoken about as very important. He was pick 56 in 2015. Now at 52 the same year there was a kid called McKenzie Willis. Played 5 games and never heard of again. Lots of things go into making a good AFL player - talent, development, attitude - but I do always feel it’s a bit of luck too in making the right choice.

Im going to do a bit of an edit - I think I originally said “quite a bit of luck” probably should downgrade that to just “a bit of luck “

Willis was an over-ager (20) from Tassie, his claim to fame was he had a good set of wheels.

 

[Mismatched]

I'm not a recruiter and don't watch junior Vic footy, but I do remember that McCartin was described as a lock for pick 1 pre-draft in many fantasy drafts.

The question though is was that based on talent or Intel? I assume intel if talent spotters felt differently.

I would also add that Petracca was looking like a spud for several years.

I think most assessed that the Saints desperately needed a gun young Key Forward to take over from Riewoldt and thus correctly predicted they’d go that way.

My recollection was that both McCartin and Petracca were seen as the top talents of the draft, but both had question marks regarding fitness and how they’d apply their talent at the elite level. McCartin seen as more a traditional 80’s/90’s leading FF and Petracca whether he would ultimately be able be able to develop the fitness base to transition to AFL level midfield.

Brayshaw was seen as the “safe bet” midfielder, but perhaps without the same raw talent as the other 2.

 

[Sanders]

Oh Sanders

Please dont change, always the brave keyboard agitator

If you go back to articles in early May it was reported that Dawson has held of signing with Swans based on repeated interest shown by the AFC, with this in mind our efforts obviously started well before May

It was also reported at that time that the AFC will aggressively increase their chase later in the year, which is now materialising

Regardless of you trying to agitate, and being the keyboard superhero in the room the facts are playing out as reported

Nice try, but no bite from me [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

how does that relate to YOU’ve been saying? Or you’ve been reporting?

both of which have been disproven as your search history shows no mention of Dawson prior to July 2021 and no mention of you claiming we were interested

so, no, it’s not about getting a bite out of you. Just wondering why you tell such fibs? Does it matter that much to invent pretend back stories

 

[kick it to me_]

Wouldn't mind the crows picking this lad up Matthew Ling as a rookie. He just got delisted today from sydeny, due to injuries never really got on the park. One of those players young enough to rebuild his body from the ground up like what we did with seedsman. Kids got a beautiful leg and speed.

Matthew Ling's highlight reel

Check out our first pick at the 2017 National Draft, Matthew Ling, in action.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Be interested to see if there was anyone you guys think we should pick up as a rookie?

On SM-G988B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[70lethal]

When looking over a period of 5-10 drafts the statistics say its predominately based on skill.
There will be outlines like Thorpe for Hawthorn or Cripps or Carlton but over a longer period of time it will show the clubs which function well off the field, the ones who have a good senior coach, good fitness staff, good recruiters and good development.

The reason it comes mainly to skill is because your measured against your opponents and you only have to be marginally better in a few areas to be a contender.
Unfortunately the best juniors usually go to the crappiest clubs, such a poor reward.

Brisbane drafting improved when Fagan walked in the door.

GC has no excuse for the talent they have picked.

Almost everything turned to gold for Hawthorn in the early 2000's, was that Buckenarra, Clarkson or other things.

Melbourne get roos and there picks look better but does Williams have a bigger influence or is it Burgess.

Sydney have consistently produce good players from a variety.of picks.

WB are interesting in Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

going at 7 as he should have gone higher.

If its just based on top 10 picks then Carlton should have had a dynasty.

Blight cleans out the old guys and everyone improves dramatically. How much was it to do with Craig's fitness?
Players say Blight was a great teacher of the game. Clarkson similarly.

There will be the Morabito stories which are terribly unlucky but when your consistently churning out better players than your competitors there's a large element of skill imo.

 

[feenix67]

No you don’t but I think professionals do their very best to nose through every little bit of information. To make it as scientific as possible. And I’d never say luck is everything- otherwise anyone could do it, just that it plays a part.

Young Dawson is being offered quite some $$$ and spoken about as very important. He was pick 56 in 2015. Now at 52 the same year there was a kid called McKenzie Willis. Played 5 games and never heard of again. Lots of things go into making a good AFL player - talent, development, attitude - but I do always feel it’s a bit of luck too in making the right choice.

Im going to do a bit of an edit - I think I originally said “quite a bit of luck” probably should downgrade that to just “a bit of luck “

The pathway to AFL makes luck play a bigger part than it should. Junior football is run by amateurs, often volunteers, and the goal of junior football is often not to showcase talent. The draft age also contributes, simply because clubs are drafting players who haven't finished growing physically. It should be at least 19, I'd prefer 21.

Talent spotting is old school and often relies on anecdotal evidence. Scouting is amateurish and often based on a kids body of junior work, which you just can't do because physical development plays such a huge role in how a kid plays (and where he plays) at the different age groups.

I have always maintained that the next big step for the sport is in junior development and talent spotting. A club that invests heavily in this area will find many diamonds in the rough under the current system.

 

[DaKids]

The pathway to AFL makes luck play a bigger part than it should. Junior football is run by amateurs, often volunteers, and the goal of junior football is often not to showcase talent. The draft age also contributes, simply because clubs are drafting players who haven't finished growing physically. It should be at least 19, I'd prefer 21.

Talent spotting is old school and often relies on anecdotal evidence. Scouting is amateurish and often based on a kids body of junior work, which you just can't do because physical development plays such a huge role in how a kid plays (and where he plays) at the different age groups.

I have always maintained that the next big step for the sport is in junior development and talent spotting. A club that invests heavily in this area will find many diamonds in the rough under the current system.

Super contribution that one - thank you

 

[Mutineer]

The pathway to AFL makes luck play a bigger part than it should. Junior football is run by amateurs, often volunteers, and the goal of junior football is often not to showcase talent. The draft age also contributes, simply because clubs are drafting players who haven't finished growing physically. It should be at least 19, I'd prefer 21.

Talent spotting is old school and often relies on anecdotal evidence. Scouting is amateurish and often based on a kids body of junior work, which you just can't do because physical development plays such a huge role in how a kid plays (and where he plays) at the different age groups.

I have always maintained that the next big step for the sport is in junior development and talent spotting. A club that invests heavily in this area will find many diamonds in the rough under the current system.

21, you have got to be kidding, and unless you missed it it is now U19's in the AFL affiliated Leagues with a serious number of 19 year olds playing, though speaking of the TAC Cup/NAB League clubs were permitted to play a certain number of 19 year olds even before the rule change...generally youngsters coming off long term injuries in their top age year or taller lads.

 

[1990crow]

Pick 4 and 2022 first for Pick 1 and 2022 North second?
Pick 23 and North 2022 second to Swans for Dawson.
Our 2022 second either this year or next for Rankine.

In terms of bringing in talent end of next year use our Salary cap to bring in a free agent.

 

[feenix67]

21, you have got to be kidding, and unless you missed it it is now U19's in the AFL affiliated Leagues with a serious number of 19 year olds playing, though speaking of the TAC Cup/NAB League clubs were permitted to play a certain number of 19 year olds even before the rule change...generally youngsters coming off long term injuries in their top age year or taller lads.

Yes I know what the rules are thanks Bicks. I'd like to hear your reasons why you think 21 is outrageous. We all know the real reason why it sits at 18 (or 17 really if born in November/December). It's a talent grab - the AFL being too scared of losing talent to other sports. There's not one reason aligned with what's good for the kids for having the age so young, and the sink cost of developing kids not good enough as adults is huge. Kids get spat out of a system at 20-22 that they were 100% invested in for their entire adolescence. I'd much rather be drafting from a senior system pool of developed bodies than a pool of juniors which is basically a crap shoot aside from about 10 players each year.

Go ahead, give me your view.

 

[Mutineer]

Yes I know what the rules are thanks Bicks. I'd like to hear your reasons why you think 21 is outrageous. We all know the real reason why it sits at 18 (or 17 really if born in November/December). It's a talent grab - the AFL being too scared of losing talent to other sports. There's not one reason aligned with what's good for the kids for having the age so young, and the sink cost of developing kids not good enough as adults is huge. Kids get spat out of a system at 20-22 that they were 100% invested in for their entire adolescence. I'd much rather be drafting from a senior system pool of developed bodies than a pool of juniors which is basically a crap shoot aside from about 10 players each year.

Go ahead, give me your view.

No talent grab about it, it's all about their high school education being completed....most take up studies of some description once drafted, those that don't head off to Uni,Tafe or the work force.

 

[Soggy2112]

Pick 4 and 2022 first for Pick 1 and 2022 North second?
Pick 23 and North 2022 second to Swans for Dawson.
Our 2022 second either this year or next for Rankine.

In terms of bringing in talent end of next year use our Salary cap to bring in a free agent.

That’s some serious play station stuff

 

[1990crow]

That’s some serious play station stuff

Which bit is unrealistic

 

[Soggy2112]

Which bit is unrealistic

North aren’t going to give up pick 1 (essentially Horne-Francis) for the HOPE that they significantly improve their draft hand next year.

Gold Coast aren’t going to give up Rankine for a second rounder while his under contract, and the only reason they’d do it next year is if he has another shit year, in which case why would we want him.

What out of contract players have you identified that we could potentially poach in free agency? Keep in mind most of the quality free agents don’t become unrestricted until after their 10th year, meaning we’d be getting a 27-28 year old which isn’t really what we need.

Those moves rely on three separate parties all doing things they’re very unlikely to do.

 

[1990crow]

North aren’t going to give up pick 1 (essentially Horne-Francis) for the HOPE that they significantly improve their draft hand next year.

Gold Coast aren’t going to give up Rankine for a second rounder while his under contract, and the only reason they’d do it next year is if he has another sh*t year, in which case why would we want him.

What out of contract players have you identified that we could potentially poach in free agency? Keep in mind most of the quality free agents don’t become unrestricted until after their 10th year, meaning we’d be getting a 27-28 year old which isn’t really what we need.

Those moves rely on three separate parties all doing things they’re very unlikely to do.

For pick 4 and another top four pick next year they would have to consider it given JHF likely goes home at some stage.

Rankine for an early second next season if OOC (if he has a mediocre season) would be about right. It would be what can we do to extract his talent, that GC clearly can't.

 

[Soggy2112]

For pick 4 and another top four pick next year they would have to consider it given JHF likely goes home at some stage.

Rankine for an early second next season if OOC (if he has a mediocre season) would be about right. It would be what can we do to extract his talent, that GC clearly can't.

When was the last time a club traded away pick 1? And what have you seen or read to indicate that Horne-Francis will definitely come home? There’s stacks of SA talent kicking around at other clubs that never return home, are North really going to pass up on what is an all but guaranteed A grade mid just because he’s from a different state?

So you’re assumption is still that Rankine will have another sub-par season, another big IF that makes those trades unrealistic.