Autopsy Adelaide d Geelong by 15 points

[Spazz Cat]

Did Cockatoo have some issues in his draft year? Cant really recall, maybe a foot problem?

Yeah missed the whole season with a knee?? I think.
Came back for the all stars on GF day.
Think Lang missed his draft year with a broken leg too.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

dont think he should retire but serious questions need to be asked of him. He did the same thing in the finals against adelaide last year, and he's dished up extremely poor performances that almost cost the game against good teams. Even this game, that dropped mark, and follow up effort in the last 1/4 was absolutely disgraceful and resulted in a goal and changed the entire match. Those two efforts alone weren't due to rustiness, and he was carved up all night by those around him, offering nothing up forward.

he can be a good player, but his complete lack of movement, ability to put pressure on, and sometimes general laziness just won't cut it at the club anymore to win them games even if he is kicking 2 goals a game, there are better options.

What are the better options? Linc? Parsons? Gregson? Crameri? Smith? Cocky? Please, Menzel is a star when fit, it was his first game back after a fair lay off.

 

[ToreadorMarch]

Surely you jest.

I dont joke about Geelong.

 

[Billy Bob65]

Midfield frequency stats for the match.

There were 33 bounces

Menegola 29 (26w, 3i)
J.Selwood 26 (24i, 2w)
Ablett 26
S.Selwood 23 (13i, 10w)
Dangerfield 16
Duncan 10 (8i, 2w)
Simpson 9 wing
Narkle 8 (4i, 4w)
Tuohy 8 wing
Kelly 5
C.Guthrie 4 wing
Parfitt 1 wing

Rucks:
Stanley 24
Buzza 9

Notes:
- Most ever appearances for Menegola in an analysed match.
- Looked like you were trying something different structurally with Duncan and Kelly as both ran into the square from the front/forward line rather than the back.
- All bar 1 of Scott Selwood's inside mid appearances came in the 2nd half.
- Tuohy spent the entire last term playing wing
- Most ever appearances for Buzza as the relief ruck

 

[Cursed Cat]

And yet how many times have Selwood and Trav broke down?

Injuries happens you can’t plan for it , it happens to every player regardless of how they went in their junior years or not.

Selwood's been extremely durable, in some ways the big Win in drafting him seemed to precipitate Wells & co. punting on injured draftees (who by virtue of their age can hardly be called injury 'prone') and/or trading in lame players from other clubs (which has come back to bite us a few times).

Varcoe's had his share of injury woes over the years, from my (dim) memory he may have actually suffered a recurrence of the foot injury during his time at Geelong, but I freely concede I might be wrong there ..

I suppose part of the broader issue is: how long do you persist with players who struggle to get on the park? There's probably no cut and dried answer to that one, but there was a stage where we seemed to carry a lot of LTI players on the list - definitely didn't help with the depth of our list.

You're right in saying that injuries can't be planned for, but they can be managed once they've occurred.

 

[steady2]

I had not realised what a dirty team the Crows are. Two goals we kicked due to free kicks paid against a player running head on to a forward about to mark. I'm guessing the thinking goes; "He's gonna mark it, I'll smash into him to spoil and if I give away a free kick its the same difference. Maybe the free won't be paid or maybe he'll get carted off". Of course the coach might not put it that way, but some of those attempted "spoils" (including the hit on Tuohey) seemed more like professional frees rather than genuine attempts to spoil.

Having said that I dislike the way few of our players seem willing to remonstrate and shove the offender, Selwood not included. We are too soft.

 

[ATSAM]

Who did we recruit who was permantley injured?

Daniel Menzel missed four years, yet there was nothing in his history to say that he was injury prone.

Players can go through their whole junior career and not get an injury, but then get injured when they start playing senior football.

Name me one player, other than Hamish McIntosh, who has a history of injury BEFORE we recruited him.

I would blame poor fitness management rather than poor recruiting. But I said constantly that the medical staff and fitness staff are responsible for protecting players from injury and how they manage their injury. It's not up to Chris Scott or Stephen Wells to make sure players don't get injured. That's why you hire other people.

Ottens. ?? And just to pick up on the lack of skills that we continually demonstrate. Watch the start of the 2007 prelim- a few minutes in Johnson manages to grab the ball wheel around and kick perfectly to a leading Mooney.Goal.
Skills galore. Where have they gone, how did we have them then

 

[Cursed Cat]

Ottens. ?? And just to pick up on the lack of skills that we continually demonstrate. Watch the start of the 2007 prelim- a few minutes in Johnson manages to grab the ball wheel around and kick perfectly to a leading Mooney.Goal.
Skills galore. Where have they gone, how did we have them then

Marcus Drum?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Name me one player, other than Hamish McIntosh, who has a history of injury BEFORE we recruited him.

Scott Selwood.

 

[ATSAM]

Who did we recruit who was permantley injured?

Daniel Menzel missed four years, yet there was nothing in his history to say that he was injury prone.

Players can go through their whole junior career and not get an injury, but then get injured when they start playing senior football.

Name me one player, other than Hamish McIntosh, who has a history of injury BEFORE we recruited him.

I would blame poor fitness management rather than poor recruiting. But I said constantly that the medical staff and fitness staff are responsible for protecting players from injury and how they manage their injury. It's not up to Chris Scott or Stephen Wells to make sure players don't get injured. That's why you hire other people.

And therein might lie the problem CS is no genius but what is around him seems ordinary-Scarlett aside, I am not convinced that Enright is a forwards coach

 

[Spazz Cat]

Scott Selwood.

Cam Delaney, McIntosh, Mitch Clark, Darcy Lang, Cockatoo, Linc McCarthy, Drum

 

[Mad_Hatter]

And therein might lie the problem CS is no genius but what is around him seems ordinary-Scarlett aside, I am not convinced that Enright is a forwards coach

This is my issue.
When Bomber was coach we had Hinkley, McCarthy and Sando around him, all guys you'd think could or would become senior coaches themselves.
As of right now I'd only confidently say Scarlett could coach, maybe.
The rest not so much and that's including Boris who apparently is pretty good.
Knights I think is average at best, he has on paper the best midfield in the comp yet are woeful and our midfield systems are shithouse.

 

[iameviljez]

Crows beat Tigers by 36 points at AO. Tigers play the majority of their games at their home ground, the only games they have lost have been interstate including Power , who we beat at AO, if we played most of our games at KP would we be top 4?

That's only another three games per year though - of which we won one anyway so far - and we're further off the pace than that IIRC.

 

[autimcx]

What are the better options? Linc? Parsons? Gregson? Crameri? Smith? Cocky? Please, Menzel is a star when fit, it was his first game back after a fair lay off.

Crameri is an option to play the same role, dont think he's the best but he was an option. Menzel was not alone in being woeful, but ofc he can be good he has shown that. Problem is he wasn't fit. You can't bring players in that have been out as long as he was, and then let him put performances like that in, its unacceptable regardless of the factors involved. Not fit? should be getting fit in the VFL, not in the seniors at a crucial time in the season when games are must wins. Not necessarily his fault but he should know if he's up to it or not. As i said it isn't the first time he's dished up perfomances like this, when he is bad he is a huge influence in why we lose because of the role he plays, hence questions have to be asked of him.

Blame injuries, he's a good player when fit, time off, whatever you want, but to be a successful club you need to look at every player and what they can offer. Menzel showed again on Thursday that when the pressure is high, and there is fast movement he struggles a bit. I dont think he should retire but the importance of the role he plays in the forward line needs to be looked at because it cost them a lot going forward. Perhaps he should have been managed and brought back in better, and that's a coaching team fault but again he should know if he would be up to it, and he wasn't.

Also whoever said that his dropped mark in the last 1/4 was rustiness, it isn't. That's just laziness and poor touch from not being involved. Very, very basic mark that he spilled the worst way he could, rusty or not you should never drop those, its just a lack of concentration and intent.

He's definitely not alone in why they lost, there were several players that were terrible, he was just one to focus on, and people continue to make excuses for him rather than others. If we make excuses for menzel, we have to make them for buzza, guthrie, jones, and whoever else was bad. They were bad, and can only blame themselves for playing that way. Disagree if you want, but you can't make excuses for people at this point of the season, they need to put in their best performances or shouldn't be playing, look at the past two premiers who made these tough calls.

 

[thejester]

Yeah missed the whole season with a knee?? I think.
Came back for the all stars on GF day.
Think Lang missed his draft year with a broken leg too.

Lang broke his leg in the last game of the Champs.

 

[Partridge]

Yes; Wells and co. have pulled the trigger on a few first rounders with junior injury troubles; Darcy Lang was coming back from a broken leg, Trav Varcoe had (I think) foot issues, Joel Selwood had had 3 knee ops before we took him at #7. I seem to recall Thurlow having some kind of injury the year he was drafted, might have 'just' been a busted face though ...

Hang on, 3 knee operations? I thought he’d injured it once.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Hang on, 3 knee operations? I thought he’d injured it once.

actually 4, if Wikipedia is anything to go by (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't ..)

"Rewarded with the captaincy of Bendigo for his final season, Selwood again won mid-year State honours for Victoria Country. However, a knee injury occurred only six rounds into the competition forcing him to undergo surgery—his fourth knee operation within two years—prematurely ending his season.[11]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Selwood

The rest of the article seems pretty accurate, fwiw, but feel free to keep a healthy skepticism with Wikipedia.

Seems as though only one of the operations was for a serious issue, perhaps the rest were 'just scrapes' - either way, he I remember him being touted as pretty much a consensus #1 selection until the season-ending knee injury in 2006..

edit: if the 4 pre-draft knee ops is correct it only makes his resilience at AFL level all the more remarkable; to my knowledge no other knee operations have ever been reported by the club ...

 

[foodles05]

He was very good but Danger was better.
33 and 3 to go with 10 tackles and 8 clearances vs 28/1 and 3 tackles.
Stanley can finish off our top 3.

They are just numbers! Danger was very good but the quality of Kelly's disposal is so far superior! The goals can't be ignored but would love to see the quality of his 33 touches and please please don't quote efficiency stats because they are so arbitrary it is not funny. I am not saying efficiency numbers would be good but the way they judge it is ridiculous.

 

[Nickoo]

Stanley is quite clearly our number one ruck now. So what we need is a tall to play predominantly forward that can help out in the ruck for the periods when Stanley is getting a breather (Sav would be perfect ).

My solution: who is the best forward out of Smith and Abbott? I'd bring <whoever that is> in for Buzza. None of our options are great forwards - Taylor and Henderson are good on their day, but can also be liabilities as forwards on other days; and neither are any chop in the ruck. If we had Smith or Abbott to play the 80/20(ish) forward/ruck role, with Stanley's role unchanged, I reckon the advantage we'd get in the ruck when Smith/Abbott is in there against the opposition second ruck would outweigh the difference between Taylor/Henderson/Buzza and Smith/Abbott in the forward line.

If Smith (or Abbott) could match what Taylor/Buzza have been producing up forward - not hard - then we might as well turn the 5-7 or so minutes per quarter that the second rucks go at it into an advantage. Imagine Smith or Abbott going up against some of the people going as relief ruck these days. It could become a real strength in one position with (potentially/hopefully) minimal payoff in another.

Did Smith kick any goals in the VFL? Sounds like a good idea. Smith has been 100% better than Buzz who isn’t AFL std. likeable young chap but not up to it. Surely Smith swinging across the middle to take grab marks is better than Buzz dropping them. God that was distressing thurs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[foodles05]

Need this more than anything to go forward. Team culture is shizen and won’t change under Scott - need a new, tougher approach...

This is just a ridiculously stupid comment. There is absolutely no way you can make back to back prelim finals with a s**t team culture. It is just not possible. The league is just way too competitive and unforgiving. If you actually look at the names on paper for our team we aren't that good. There is kids everywhere and lots of players with 50 games or less. We are where we should be based on our talent and this scott bashing is crazy. People always point to our top end talent and say we should be dominating with these stars in our team but richmond prove that having an even team is much more important.

 

[steady2]

This is my issue.
When Bomber was coach we had Hinkley, McCarthy and Sando around him, all guys you'd think could or would become senior coaches themselves.
As of right now I'd only confidently say Scarlett could coach, maybe.
The rest not so much and that's including Boris who apparently is pretty good.
Knights I think is average at best, he has on paper the best midfield in the comp yet are woeful and our midfield systems are shithouse.

Hinkley, McCarthy and Sando all did become AFL coaches. In the case of Mccarthy and Sando they didn't last much more than two seasons before being sacked. Hinkley is hanging in there, just one bad season from the sack. Being an AFL coach doesn't mean you are a good coach. Neeld was a dud, just one example.

 

[lionbear]

Swap the dates of the Bulldogs and Adelaide games around and I think we would be three from three.

Most probably would be sandpapering over some cracks but the talk would be a lot different right now.

 

[steady2]

Just not good enough. Unsure how I want the season to finish, one part of me just wants geelong to completely bomb out and hopefully that will get rid of Scott.

Why don't you barrack for someone else then? Club supporters should support their team through thick and thin. Wanting your team to lose because you don't like the coach is the attitude of a spoiled brat. Some of us older supporters grew up in the dark days of the 70's when we barely played finals at all. Some of the younger guys who've been following the team since about 2007 seem to think we should have a premiership every year or two or we sack the coach and trash the players. That is what Carlton did for years when they had the money to buy the best players and coaches, after the draft and salary cap came in they have been in the wilderness and many of their spoiled supporters have drifted away. A premiership coach who has taken us to consecutive prelims the last two years with the best win/loss record in the AFL; Carlton would love to get him.

 

[steady2]

This is just a ridiculously stupid comment. There is absolutely no way you can make back to back prelim finals with a s**t team culture. It is just not possible. The league is just way too competitive and unforgiving. If you actually look at the names on paper for our team we aren't that good. There is kids everywhere and lots of players with 50 games or less. We are where we should be based on our talent and this scott bashing is crazy. People always point to our top end talent and say we should be dominating with these stars in our team but richmond prove that having an even team is much more important.

The team under Bomber had a poor to average team culture until the meeting in early 2007, it was the players particularly Chapman, Ling, Harley, Rooke, Scarlett and Mooney that put a rocket under some of the younger players and other players who were not playing to their ability. It was these players that initiated the meeting and the coach had nothing to do with it. Geelong needs some of the senior players to put a rocket under some of the younger players and they also need to toughen up, I'm sick of Selwood and others being slammed into the ground and Geelong players ignore it.

 

[mcwilrob]

This is just a ridiculously stupid comment. There is absolutely no way you can make back to back prelim finals with a s**t team culture. It is just not possible. The league is just way too competitive and unforgiving. If you actually look at the names on paper for our team we aren't that good. There is kids everywhere and lots of players with 50 games or less. We are where we should be based on our talent and this scott bashing is crazy. People always point to our top end talent and say we should be dominating with these stars in our team but richmond prove that having an even team is much more important.

Your argument would have more weight if we had a win/loss ratio in finals that more closely reflected that of our home & away. Reality is our finals record is piss-poor in comparison. Wilt under pressure every time. Coaching and culture has to bear appropriate responsibility for that...