List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

[craig crowing]

By the time you get to the rookie draft you're looking at mostly "project" players. All of the players who fall this far have deficiencies or reasons why they weren't taken in the National Draft. Some of them will go on to achieve success, the overwhelming majority will never see the light of day. Most clubs go with a "best available" strategy in this draft, rather than "needs based" because they want to maximise the already low probability that their selected player will "make it". Adelaide are very fortunate that Cameron was both best available and filled an identified need.

Rightly or wrongly, Adelaide didn't rate D Cameron as the best player available at our selection in the draft. It's worth noting that none of the other clubs did either, so Adelaide are hardly unique in overlooking him.

Yeah but no other club were even remotely so poorly off for back up ruck man type like we were and are unless you or anyone rate Graham or Smack for the future.

 

[Vader]

Yeah but no other club were even remotely so poorly off for back up ruck man type like we were and are unless you or anyone rate Graham or Smack for the future.

That's not true either.

 

[Team DJ]

By the time you get to the rookie draft you're looking at mostly "project" players. All of the players who fall this far have deficiencies or reasons why they weren't taken in the National Draft. Some of them will go on to achieve success, the overwhelming majority will never see the light of day. Most clubs go with a "best available" strategy in this draft, rather than "needs based" because they want to maximise the already low probability that their selected player will "make it". Adelaide are very fortunate that Cameron was both best available and filled an identified need.

Rightly or wrongly, Adelaide didn't rate D Cameron as the best player available at our selection in the draft. It's worth noting that none of the other clubs did either, so Adelaide are hardly unique in overlooking him.

It's also worth noting that we do have several ruck options behind Jacobs - JJ, Smack, Graham & Osborn. Adding another to the rookie list was probably not appropriate last year. With 3 of those backup options probably being delisted this year, now would be a more appropriate time to be drafting a replacement.

Some forward thinking would have seen that at the end of 2014 Graham and McKernan would likely not be at the Club.
Jenkins is a pinch hit option and Osborn is barely an SANFL Standard Ruckman at this stage. His future will be much like Jenkins, a Forward who can spend time in the Ruck.

Cameron was rated by many as the best pure ruck in the draft. His issue unlike Nankervis and Brown was that he couldnt hit the scoreboard up forward. Surely a 4th round Rookie Pick is worth the Best Pure Ruckman going, who can actually cover the ground well too.

 

[Team DJ]

Spina could play the role of outside mid/forward and Kelly would provide the flanker size defender who can actually defend well, or potentially turn into a defensive mid (has the size, grunt and engine).

Both areas we need depth in, but of course i agree a back-up ruck is definitely another area of importance, possibly even more so.

Hardly need depth in forward mid.
Sloane Danger Wright Douglas Crouch Kerridge Atkins Petrenko Lyons Martin Grigg Knight

And as for half back who BTW sprays the ball all over the shop
Reilly LThompson Jaensch Brown CEY Laird Smith Shaw

Not really areas we needed to stock up in

 

[Archie87]

I don't mind the look of Spina. He's playing a flank/small forward role in the SANFL atm so doesn't see a huge amount of it but every game I've seen live or watched on TV, he's done some good things. Apparently he has reasonable speed but I haven't been able to gauge this in the games I've seen because he's usually crumbing at the bottom of packs. Definitely worth persisting with IMO.

 

[Vader]

Some forward thinking would have seen that at the end of 2014 Graham and McKernan would likely not be at the Club.
Jenkins is a pinch hit option and Osborn is barely an SANFL Standard Ruckman at this stage. His future will be much like Jenkins, a Forward who can spend time in the Ruck.

Cameron was rated by many as the best pure ruck in the draft. His issue unlike Nankervis and Brown was that he couldnt hit the scoreboard up forward. Surely a 4th round Rookie Pick is worth the Best Pure Ruckman going, who can actually cover the ground well too.

While you do have a valid point about "forward thinking", there are only so many ruckmen that a can justify having on its team list at any given point in time - and 5 is about the limit.

While he might have been rated by "many" as the best pure ruck, the AFL recruiters obviously disagreed - given that none of the clubs chose to draft him. I doubt that a lack of forward flexibility would be enough to prevent him from being drafted if he was really rated that highly.

 

[Team DJ]

While you do have a valid point about "forward thinking", there are only so many ruckmen that a can justify having on its team list at any given point in time - and 5 is about the limit.

While he might have been rated by "many" as the best pure ruck, the AFL recruiters obviously disagreed - given that none of the clubs chose to draft him. I doubt that a lack of forward flexibility would be enough to prevent him from being drafted if he was really rated that highly.

Do you understand what the Rookie list is? Its a nothing spot on the list. May as well have one there. A Rookie list ruckman hardly takes you over the limit.
I agree 5 on the senior list, different story. But our Senior list only comprises of, Jacobs Jenkins Smack and Graham, with JJ and Smack better KPP players anyways.

AFL Clubs dont draft 18 year old Rucks because they no they will just sit on a list for 4 years before they are close to ready to play AFL. Thats the reason he was passed over he's still a string bean. He should have been on the Rookie list this season ahead of Kelly, Full Stop.

 

[Vader]

Do you understand what the Rookie list is? Its a nothing spot on the list. May as well have one there. A Rookie list ruckman hardly takes you over the limit.
I agree 5 on the senior list, different story. But our Senior list only comprises of, Jacobs Jenkins Smack and Graham, with JJ and Smack better KPP players anyways.

AFL Clubs dont draft 18 year old Rucks because they no they will just sit on a list for 4 years before they are close to ready to play AFL. Thats the reason he was passed over he's still a string bean. He should have been on the Rookie list this season ahead of Kelly, Full Stop.

I'm neither here nor there on having an extra ruckman on the rookie list. The fact that none of the clubs chose to draft him tells me that he's not as good as you think he is/was and that Adelaide didn't make a mistake by not drafting him.

 

[Team DJ]

I'm neither here nor there on having an extra ruckman on the rookie list. The fact that none of the clubs chose to draft him tells me that he's not as good as you think he is/was and that Adelaide didn't make a mistake by not drafting him.

Righto Vader, well the fact that he is leading the Ruck for Claremont in the WAFL suggests to me that 18 AFL Clubs including ours made a blue, and sometimes the average Punter actually know what they are talking about, and dont just spit random garabage into a key board

 

[Vader]

Righto Vader, well the fact that he is leading the Ruck for Claremont in the WAFL suggests to me that 18 AFL Clubs including ours made a blue, and sometimes the average Punter actually know what they are talking about, and dont just spit random garabage into a key board

The fact that he's leading the ruck at a WAFL club suggests no such thing.

I'm not suggesting that you're spitting random garbage into a keyboard. I'm just suggesting that AFL clubs have specific things that they look for in draftees, things which are not necessarily obvious to the casual observer like you or me. I'm sure that you rate him highly and with good reason. I'm also sure that the clubs have their own, equally good, reasons for not having drafted him.

 

[Team DJ]

The fact that he's leading the ruck at a WAFL club suggests no such thing.

I'm not suggesting that you're spitting random garbage into a keyboard. I'm just suggesting that AFL clubs have specific things that they look for in draftees, things which are not necessarily obvious to the casual observer like you or me. I'm sure that you rate him highly and with good reason. I'm also sure that the clubs have their own, equally good, reasons for not having drafted him.

19 year old leading the ruck at one of the best WAFL Clubs suggests to me Clubs made a Blue.

Either way, like so often with our Footy Club, in 5 years time when the guys an AFL Jet we have another thing to bag the club for about this period.

 

[Bacon8]

Leading the ruck for Claremont, yet not the most hitouts at Claremont?

http://www.wafl.com.au/rankings/2014/total/hitouts/players

Claremont are 6th/9 with just 5 wins. Not seeing that as one of the best either.

And the last 3 games have been in the Reserves.

 

[craig crowing]

That's not true either.

Thats a statement without backing that you are very critical of Vader .
So lets have who you believe are worse off or near worse off than us in back up or future ruck options .

 

[Smithalicious]

Thats a statement without backing that you are very critical of Vader .
So lets have who you believe are worse off or near worse off than us in back up or future ruck options .

Western Bulldogs. Other than Minson do they have anyone?

 

[Vader]

Thats a statement without backing that you are very critical of Vader .
So lets have who you believe are worse off or near worse off than us in back up or future ruck options .

It's easier to name those with better ruck backups - Freo, Sydney, West coast.

Carlton's backup ruck options are so bad that they've selected Cameron Wood this week. I'd even back our ruck options against Port's.

The truth is that most teams have a fairly good #1 ruck and a handy 2nd ruck - as we do in Jacobs & JJ. After that, most teams ruck options fall away fairly quickly.

 

[Tex200]

It's easier to name those with better ruck backups - Freo, Sydney, West coast.

Carlton's backup ruck options are so bad that they've selected Cameron Wood this week. I'd even back our ruck options against Port's.

The truth is that most teams have a fairly good #1 ruck and a handy 2nd ruck - as we do in Jacobs & JJ. After that, most teams ruck options fall away fairly quickly.

Agree - its difficult because there is generally room for just one ruck - so if you're a quality ruck you either own the no 1 spot or you're looking to move to a club where you will be.

Very hard to retain a quality ruck on a basis of permanent 2's pending an injury.

 

[Bacon8]

It's easier to name those with better ruck backups - Freo, Sydney, West coast.

Carlton's backup ruck options are so bad that they've selected Cameron Wood this week. I'd even back our ruck options against Port's.

The truth is that most teams have a fairly good #1 ruck and a handy 2nd ruck - as we do in Jacobs & JJ. After that, most teams ruck options fall away fairly quickly.

Gold Coast's ruck stocks are pretty healthy too.

 

[Mattrox]

Gold Coast's ruck stocks are pretty healthy too.

Except they are often injured.

 

[Mego Red]

Seaby is first ruck for a terrible team (Claremont) in a third tier competition.

Cameron is a long term prospect that no one is kicking themselves for not drafting. They'll have another chance this year and probably next.

 

[Skippos]

Righto Vader, well the fact that he is leading the Ruck for Claremont in the WAFL suggests to me that 18 AFL Clubs including ours made a blue, and sometimes the average Punter actually know what they are talking about, and dont just spit random garabage into a key board

That's just not true though, he was dropped to the reserves for poor form.

 

[Skippos]

I wouldn't be against us picking up a SANFL ruck as our backup. Perhaps Baulderstone or Brooksby. I think Brooksby's the more complete player and around the ground has an AFL standard game but at 197-8cm things will always be working against him.

 

[The Kedge]

I hope we at least ask the saints the question with Jack Steven. They showed with mcevoy last year that no one is untouchable. Realistically they are years away from being competitive every week, so he might be tempted to look elsewhere. Would take at least our first rounder to get it done.

 

[Skippos]

More. Jack Steven's a top 3 draft pick kind of player. I'd probably give pick one for him.

We'd have to add to our first imo and i can't see what we'd add without it being a cynical borderline dud.

 

[The Kedge]

More. Jack Steven's a top 3 draft pick kind of player. I'd probably give pick one for him.

We'd have to add to our first imo and i can't see what we'd add without it being a cynical borderline dud.

Well they traded mcevoy + 24 + 59 for savage + 18 + 19.

Depending on how you rate both savage and Lyons I reckon pick 10 + Lyons/luke Thompson would equal an equivalent trade to the mcevoy one.

 

[Skippos]

McEvoy is/was a substandard tap ruckman who's good around the ground. I wouldn't say he was close to the top 10 rucks in the league, ergo, he was in the bottom 50% of starting rucks in the league. I don't think anyone would challenge the notion that Steven is in the top 10% of starting midfielders in the league.

Then again I do think St Kilda undersold McEvoy. But last year's draft was stronger too.