Moved Thread AFL looking to upgrade Punt Road Oval , Visy Park as third stadium

Smell The Glove

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Is it just me who thinks that it's unfair that having a boutique stadium which is already an existing training base for a certain club would give unfair advantages? I reckon the best way forward is to simply build a new stadium.
If that's the case, remove Geelong from Kardinia, Brisbane from the GABBA, GC from Metricon, GWS from the Showgrounds and Sydney from the SCG.

I mean, FFS, how long have you been watching football?
 

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brisbane13

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Right so clubs will happily go to Darwin, Cairns, Hobart, New Zealand, Canberra and Launceston but they cant handle a one hour trip up the road.

Makes sense to me.
Victorians don't like to travel!, clubs who play a home game in a different state do so usually for a once off for financial reasons
 

Silent Alarm

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Right so clubs will happily go to Darwin, Cairns, Hobart, New Zealand, Canberra and Launceston but they cant handle a one hour trip up the road.

Makes sense to me.
Clubs go interstate for the same reason clubs don't like Etihad: money.

The money for Hawthorn is what got them there. So too North on the other end of the island.

How many people genuinely travel interstate for a game? Footy fans in WA and SA go to Melbourne once a year to see a game and have a footy weekend. But even when Collingwood go to their day-glo haven, Gold Coast, only a few thousand travel up. It's not like everyone in Cairns is a Richmond supporter, or are Melbourne based Tigers fans.

I mean, Victorians whinge about having a stadium as great as Etihad Stadium. People hated Waverley because it was out of the way. Could you imagine them having games down in Geelong?

Bulldogs fans say their fans live all along the train line. They might do, I don't dispute that or anything. But North Melbourne playing down is only worth it for the lower break even point, but it could be a bit of a PR issue. Are North in a position to alienate fans for that?
 

Slax

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Once again the AFL is going to screw things up. yes we need a third stadium in Melbourne and no-one is denying it but capping it at 20,000 is not the right thing. We need a 25,000 seat stadium, the 5,000 increase is vital if the AFL wants to allow the smaller clubs to grow their supporter base, how can you encourage someone to follow Melbourne, Bulldogs or North when they play games where you need to be a member to get a ticket or pay through the nose, it defeats the purpose and shows that the AFL is so far out of touch with reality that the need a massive overhaul, starting with a new CEO.
 

Hard_to_Beat

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whats the point in arden street
acording to google the North Melbourne train station is 1.3kms away from arden street
400-500 metres.

arden street there is no room to build new stands., Visy Park, there is a train line, half the stands are already there & they are newish, thanks to John Elliott,comparing arden street is a North Melbourns fans pipe dream, but in the real world it makes no sense to redevelop the Arden street oval when you have Visy park.it would make more sense to build a complete new stadium in the E'gate district, before even putting half a thought in to arden street
Fogarty street could be annexed with little interruption to business or traffic.
 

Doss

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By foot, Arden Street is a little under a kilometre from North Melbourne Station, if one walks straight along Laurens Street and under Dynon Road from the station. About 800-850 metres.

Macaulay Station is a similar distance away as well, but is only served by one line (which happens to be my line).

Bottom line is, Arden Street is far from inaccessible.
 

brisbane13

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400-500 metres.
uh you must have very large strides, google states 850 meters from North Melbourn train station to Arden street, then add on at least 300 to 400 meters to the Ground.:p


Fogarty street could be annexed with little interruption to business or traffic.
how about the other side, Macaulay street?, there is no room for parking & crowds, its almost as stupid idea as Melbourne wanting to use the Casey fields.
the only options is Visy Park or a new stadium and which one cant be built untill 2025
 

Doss

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how about the other side, Macaulay street?, there is no room for parking & crowds, its almost as stupid idea as Melbourne wanting to use the Casey fields.
the only options is Visy Park or a new stadium and which one cant be built untill 2025
Macaulay Road itself is a main road and I highly doubt it would be modified, as it and Dryburgh Street are an important thoroughfare between Spencer Street/Dynon Road and Flemington/Mount Alexander Road (and thus Citylink).

Fogarty Street is a different matter, though. The key would probably be the area between Fogarty Street and the Upfield railway line- are the factories in that area still active? If not, potentially plenty of room around there.
 

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Hard_to_Beat

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how about the other side, Macaulay street?, there is no room for parking & crowds, its almost as stupid idea as Melbourne wanting to use the Casey fields. The only options is Visy Park or a new stadium and which one cant be built untill 2025
Macaulay Road itself is a main road and I highly doubt it would be modified, as it and Dryburgh Street are an important thoroughfare between Spencer Street/Dynon Road and Flemington/Mount Alexander Road (and thus Citylink).
If you take note of the vacant area positioned between 6 and 8 o'clock in relation to the Arden Street Oval, then you will notice a disused railyard where you could park 100,000 cars (click on link).

Further to the left is Citylink and ample room for off/on ramps. Cars from the North, South and East would take this path and cars from the west would link on at Footscray Road or the Westgate bypass.

200 meters to the right on Abbotsford street is the number 57 tram. 500 metres away in the 10-11 o'clock position is the Macaulay railway station. 600-800 metres to the south is the North Melbourne junction railway station which accommodates both suburban and country rail travel.


http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&q=Arden Street oval North melbourne map&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44342787,d.aGc&biw=1120&bih=602&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&ei=OVdSUdvWN6uhiAeF7oGABA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg

Fogarty Street is a different matter, though. The key would probably be the area between Fogarty Street and the Upfield railway line- are the factories in that area still active? If not, potentially plenty of room around there.
The rail line is another block away on the western side of Langford Street. There are only 2 or 3 business entrances on the whole of Fogarty street and 2 of them could be rerouted and accommodated from Arden Street and Macaulay Road.

Positionally and developmentally, it works. The biggest problem would be the acquisition of Fogarty Street.
 

Pessimistic

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Best area would to build a stadium on the old Olympic Park ground.

Has it all.

Tram & train lines.

Parking.

Closeness to the CBD.

Closeness to the SEA & Eastern Freeways.

Arden St. Isn't even being discussed.

They have enough issues with the East West link.
Some advantages

Great location with scnery if its a partially enclosed stadium

Great location for transport

Curtain raisers cold occur thhere

Could be used for domestic cricket with offset seasons from afl. Used for footy games between rounds 3 to 19

Alternately could be used for vfl and other finals
 

neroblack

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Best area would to build a stadium on the old Olympic Park ground.

Has it all.

Tram & train lines.

Parking.

Closeness to the CBD.

Closeness to the SEA & Eastern Freeways.

Arden St. Isn't even being discussed.

They have enough issues with the East West link.
There's a brand new oval built there for far more important purposes :)
 

Doss

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If you take note of the vacant area positioned between 6 and 8 o'clock in relation to the Arden Street Oval, then you will notice a disused railyard where you could park 100,000 cars (click on link).

Further to the left is Citylink and ample room for off/on ramps. Cars from the North, South and East would take this path and cars from the west would link on at Footscray Road or the Westgate bypass.

200 meters to the right on Abbotsford street is the number 57 tram. 500 metres away in the 10-11 o'clock position is the Macaulay railway station. 600-800 metres to the south is the North Melbourne junction railway station which accommodates both suburban and country rail travel.


http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&q=Arden Street oval North melbourne map&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44342787,d.aGc&biw=1120&bih=602&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&ei=OVdSUdvWN6uhiAeF7oGABA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg
Being an Upfield line user, I'm aware of the area you mean, in terms of the view from a passing train anyway. The area in question begins where the Upfield tracks split off from the lines toward Essendon and Footscray. It runs all the way up to Arden Street, on the eastern side of the Upfield line.

The area north of Arden Street all the way up to Macaulay also seems to be fairly vacant. It certainly is a large area and could be utilised.



The rail line is another block away on the western side of Langford Street. There are only 2 or 3 business entrances on the whole of Fogarty street and 2 of them could be rerouted and accommodated from Arden Street and Macaulay Road.

Positionally and developmentally, it works. The biggest problem would be the acquisition of Fogarty Street.
What are the businesses, out of interest? Asking because if they aren't likely to be viable in the longer term, the issue of acquiring land in Fogarty Street might not be quite as problematic.
 

Hard_to_Beat

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What are the businesses, out of interest? Asking because if they aren't likely to be viable in the longer term, the issue of acquiring land in Fogarty Street might not be quite as problematic.
Bowens hardware on the corner of Fogarty and Macaulay and I think it's a concrete works down the other end at Arden Street and Fogarty, but that opens on to Arden Street.

The other businesses open up from the side streets.
 

Doss

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Bowens hardware on the corner of Fogarty and Macaulay and I think it's a concrete works down the other end at Arden Street and Fogarty, but that opens on to Arden Street.

The other businesses open up from the side streets.
Ah yes- I can see the Bowens store now, I drive down Macaulay Road sometimes so it definitely rings a bell, now that you mention it.

North Melbourne is a suburb that still has a fair bit of change to happen yet (a lot for an inner suburb, especially), you'd think- as more and more industrial areas are gradually decommissioned, there's definitely scope for big change.

I guess part of the picture would be whether those former rail yards could get set aside for something like this, or whether the urge to squash in yet more apartment-style high rise buildings will win out.
 

brisbane13

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Ah yes- I can see the Bowens store now, I drive down Macaulay Road sometimes so it definitely rings a bell, now that you mention it.

North Melbourne is a suburb that still has a fair bit of change to happen yet (a lot for an inner suburb, especially), you'd think- as more and more industrial areas are gradually decommissioned, there's definitely scope for big change.

I guess part of the picture would be whether those former rail yards could get set aside for something like this, or whether the urge to squash in yet more apartment-style high rise buildings will win out.
a lot of those old rail yards are ment to be part of the new Egate (like docklands) district that is ment to start happening in 2014, so those old rail yards will be used for business of some form in the future
 

neroblack

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a lot of those old rail yards are ment to be part of the new Egate (like docklands) district that is ment to start happening in 2014, so those old rail yards will be used for business of some form in the future
Only the ones south of Dynon Road I think. E Gate is land around Gate E (funnily enough) off Footscray Road, further south. Not sure on the timing of that anyway, if Places Victoria (the State Govt development agency) are in charge of it, nothing will happen any time soon. There is a lot of excess rail land around the State, which is looked after by VicTrack, however going from a good idea to actually making something happen is extremely difficult (having been through it..).
 

KissKiss

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Only the ones south of Dynon Road I think. E Gate is land around Gate E (funnily enough) off Footscray Road, further south. Not sure on the timing of that anyway, if Places Victoria (the State Govt development agency) are in charge of it, nothing will happen any time soon. There is a lot of excess rail land around the State, which is looked after by VicTrack, however going from a good idea to actually making something happen is extremely difficult (having been through it..).
From what I understood the Government/Places Victoria were pushing for it to happen pretty quickly but it was being held up by other departments (ie VicRoads and PTV) as the planning they had done on the site was rubbish and totally not practical. Either way the site is very much ear marked for residential/business uses already
 

KissKiss

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Further to the left is Citylink and ample room for off/on ramps. Cars from the North, South and East would take this path and cars from the west would link on at Footscray Road or the Westgate bypass.
Its a nice summation you put together there but in terms of Citylink and putting in new on/off ramps its a no. There isnt enough room there. Would cause a lot of other issues by having ramps that close together. And thats before you even consider the cost to acquire the additional land and build the entry/exits. Would also take at least 10 years to do if you rushed it.
 

Doss

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The rail yards around North Melbourne are more or less meant to disappear entirely with time, aren't they? I thought that was why extra train stabling was being built/has been built out at the end of lines (the massive facility that now exists at Craigieburn, the extension of the Upfield yard, etc).

Although I suppose, that only deals with the suburban trains, was all the freight stuff meant to be relocated too?

If so, there is a mountain- an absolute mountain- of space to work with. Although I suppose anything to the west of the Upfield line is of somewhat limited relevance to any proposed development at Arden Street.
 

Hard_to_Beat

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Its a nice summation you put together there but in terms of Citylink and putting in new on/off ramps its a no.
Thanks Mr Premier.

There isnt enough room there. Would cause a lot of other issues by having ramps that close together.
Rubbish

And thats before you even consider the cost to acquire the additional land and build the entry/exits.
Developments cost money.

Would also take at least 10 years to do if you rushed it.
Rubbish.
 
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