AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

[NoobPie]

I'm about 95% certain Redcliffe will be announced by V'Landy's as Brisbane's second team in the next few months. They have history, they have a sizable supporter base for a QRL club, they have their own stadium and they have money. Plenty of money.

Plenty of money from where? Pokies?


It seems fraught for the NRL to add another club who's viability is dependent on an annual multimillion dollar transfer from a leagues club. It is a huge risk of declining social license.

 

[box070]

Plenty of money from where? Pokies?


It seems fraught for the NRL to add another club who's viability is dependent on an annual multimillion dollar transfer from a leagues club. It is a huge risk of declining social license.

The NRL don’t care where the money comes from. Panthers, Eels, Souths, Roosters, Sharks are all backed by large Sports clubs. The raiders have 3-4 clubs spread throughout Canberra

 

[CURVE]

Plenty of money from where? Pokies?


It seems fraught for the NRL to add another club who's viability is dependent on an annual multimillion dollar transfer from a leagues club. It is a huge risk of declining social license.

I'm not sure where exactly, but according to the article below they have assets of over $100 million so I suggest it may be more than pokies.

The NRL Economist: Why Redcliffe Dolphins lead the running for new Brisbane NRL club

For instance, if the Redcliffe Dolphins are granted entry, their annual revenue would surpass the Brisbane Broncos as the highest grossing franchise. Their total assets (reported at more than $100 million) are worth more than the AFL's Adelaide Crows, North Melbourne Kangaroos, Melbourne Demons and Gold Coast Suns combined. Yes, combined!
But according to Dr Hunter Fujak, Lecturer in Sport Management at Deakin University, branding is just as crucial.

 

[NoobPie]

The NRL don’t care where the money comes from. Panthers, Eels, Souths, Roosters, Sharks are all backed by large Sports clubs. The raiders have 3-4 clubs spread throughout Canberra

I'm sure they do care......but if they don't care they should.

The financial viability of several of their clubs is dependent on maintaining a social license not just for raising large amounts of money from pokies but then using that to prop up a professional sport.

 

[NoobPie]

I'm not sure where exactly, but according to the article below they have assets of over $100 million so I suggest it may be more than pokies.

The NRL Economist: Why Redcliffe Dolphins lead the running for new Brisbane NRL club

For instance, if the Redcliffe Dolphins are granted entry, their annual revenue would surpass the Brisbane Broncos as the highest grossing franchise. Their total assets (reported at more than $100 million) are worth more than the AFL's Adelaide Crows, North Melbourne Kangaroos, Melbourne Demons and Gold Coast Suns combined. Yes, combined!
But according to Dr Hunter Fujak, Lecturer in Sport Management at Deakin University, branding is just as crucial.

Aaaahh, the NRL Economist - the dude who thinks facebook likes are more important than club memberships and revenue

Whatever that $100M in assets entails (presumably a massive chunk of it is pokies licenses.....which demonstrates the absurdity of comparing to AFL clubs without pokies), apparently Redcliffe had US$16M in revenues in 2020....

https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.redcliffe_leagues_club_limited.84f0f42670a420fe93e04b02f88edfe7.html

That is a fraction of what the big Leagues clubs in Sydney turnover. Highly doubt they could get away with topping up several million a year in addition to the NRL distribution like those sydney leagues clubs do

 

[Phar Ace]

Channel Nine Gold Coast News on April 22, 2021. The report stated AusKick participation numbers on the Gold Coast were up 32%.


While I agree that the western corridor makes more sense for the 2023 entry, you may not be aware of the historical significance of the Redcliffe Dolphins in rugby league circles. Redcliffe are the most successful team in the top level Queensland rugby league competitions. A team based in Redcliffe would also be able to tap into the Sunshine Coast market which is the 9th largest city in Australia and is growing very quickly. There is certainly merit to awarding the league licence to Redcliffe but I think I'd go with the western corridor first. Either way, both probably end up in the NRL by 2026.

Western Brisbane is a laydown choice for an expansion Club for NRL - it's their kind of demographic, the Ipswich connection is enormous to the NRL and much less so the AFL. On the other hand, Sunshine Coast and Northern Brisbane has strong historical links to AFL through migration north from Victoria for decades. Aspley has had strong links to Brisbane Lions, regular AFL Reserves, NEAFL and AFLW games have been played at Morton Bay Sports Complex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moreton_Bay_Central_Sports_Complex) and could be developed further if required.

The Sunshine Coast grounds at Wises Rd Maroochydore has the scope for a Metricon-type complex and the Sunshine Coast has a strong AFL pedigree albeit not as strong as Gold Coast or Brisbane. It does however have a massively growing population estimated to surpass 350,000 this year some time.

All of this is good and well, but Tassie should have side first. I'll go against the grain and suggest Sunshine Coast should be next after that, and probably line ball with Canberra. As good as the footy is in NT, I'd be concerned about it's viability over the next 10 years at least. Who knows what it might be like in 2030 though. Just my 2c worth having lived and played up here since 1981.

As an aside, when I arrived in 1981 (and this is a sign of how far things have come), I was in Bundaberg then, and there was one commercial TV station for the Sunshine Coast and Wide Bay, the ABC and one commercial radio station in each area. Match of the day (AFL) was shown on TV at 2.30pm most Saturdays unless something significant was offered (Tennis, National Event etc). If you missed the 6.30 TV news, you wouldn't get to know who won what AFL game until Monday's Courier Mail arrived - results only mostly. I would have Monday's Melbourne Sun arrive on Tuesday at around 2pm so I could catch up on the weekends round of. Now (40 years later), I can watch each game on my phone if I want to!!!!

 

[Phar Ace]

I'm not sure where exactly, but according to the article below they have assets of over $100 million so I suggest it may be more than pokies.

The NRL Economist: Why Redcliffe Dolphins lead the running for new Brisbane NRL club

For instance, if the Redcliffe Dolphins are granted entry, their annual revenue would surpass the Brisbane Broncos as the highest grossing franchise. Their total assets (reported at more than $100 million) are worth more than the AFL's Adelaide Crows, North Melbourne Kangaroos, Melbourne Demons and Gold Coast Suns combined. Yes, combined!
But according to Dr Hunter Fujak, Lecturer in Sport Management at Deakin University, branding is just as crucial.

Branding and winning! If Gold Coast cant play finals soon, it's brand is diminished, and starts to look weak. Branding is image, which is why Stu Dew is the wrong an for that job - he's a good man - but the wrong man for this job. Tommy Hafey would have made Gold Coast work - bless him!

 

[Percel]

As an aside, when I arrived in 1981 (and this is a sign of how far things have come), I was in Bundaberg then, and there was one commercial TV station for the Sunshine Coast and Wide Bay, the ABC and one commercial radio station in each area. Match of the day (AFL) was shown on TV at 2.30pm most Saturdays unless something significant was offered (Tennis, National Event etc). If you missed the 6.30 TV news, you wouldn't get to know who won what AFL game until Monday's Courier Mail arrived - results only mostly. I would have Monday's Melbourne Sun arrive on Tuesday at around 2pm so I could catch up on the weekends round of. Now (40 years later), I can watch each game on my phone if I want to!!!!

This is amazing, bizarre to think this was the case back then, thanks for sharing

 

[PhatBoy]

While a 2nd NRL team looks good on paper, IMO I think it's a terrible idea and won't last.

They'll end up taking supporters off the Broncos not adding new ones.

NRL needs a strong Broncos to get the good TV deals and their strength will be erroded by adding another team.

It depends.

man NRL team affiliated with say the Redcliffe dolphins would be huge. They would have no problem winning support.

 

[PhatBoy]

Plenty of money from where? Pokies?


It seems fraught for the NRL to add another club who's viability is dependent on an annual multimillion dollar transfer from a leagues club. It is a huge risk of declining social license.

Their club is worth something like $800 million based on a figure I heard the other day

Edit: based on some of the data in earlier posts maybe I misheard that. I thought it was a colossal amount though and it was on the ABC who at least tend to TRY and get their numbers right when talking about that sort of thing

 

[AFLQLD]

It depends.

man NRL team affiliated with say the Redcliffe dolphins would be huge. They would have no problem winning support.

The majority of that support is going to come straight from the Broncos, and the Broncos know it.

 

[PhatBoy]

The majority of that support is going to come straight from the Broncos, and the Broncos know it.

A lot more people have distaste for the broncos than you think

 

[AFLQLD]

A lot more people have distaste for the broncos than you think

Very true. I know plenty in SEQ who support the Cowboys just so they don’t have to support the Broncos.

There are also a lot who follow the Broncos as their kind of default team. Given another nearby choice I think plenty will abandon them quickly as well. Redcliffe will be the beneficiaries, not sure NRL overall will gain quite as much.

 

[slackboy72]

While a 2nd NRL team looks good on paper, IMO I think it's a terrible idea and won't last.

They'll end up taking supporters off the Broncos not adding new ones.

NRL needs a strong Broncos to get the good TV deals and their strength will be erroded by adding another team.

Absolute tosh.
There are a lot of league supporters in Qld who hate the broncos and have ties to the QRL clubs. They would get behind a 2nd team if it was tied to existing clubs. Additionally adding a 2nd team doubles the QLD derbies from 6 to 12.

I know some people involved in a Perth proposal back in early 2010's, it was eventually abandoned as the financial backing and support just wasn't there.
The numbers they ended up projecting were like 3-5k crowds.

Now that may have changed in the last decade, but I wouldn't be betting it has changed much...

Maybe they were foolishly banking on the large English and South African expat community to support it ahead of AFL, the Glory and the Force.

 

[PhatBoy]

I know some people involved in a Perth proposal back in early 2010's, it was eventually abandoned as the financial backing and support just wasn't there.
The numbers they ended up projecting were like 3-5k crowds.

Now that may have changed in the last decade, but I wouldn't be betting it has changed much...

it’s only a series of one offs but when the bunnies played the warriors three times in a row over there 6-7 years ago they got 20k each time so there is at least some support

 

[Tippett2Goal]

it’s only a series of one offs but when the bunnies played the warriors three times in a row over there 6-7 years ago they got 20k each time so there is at least some support

Yep I know attended a couple of them and some preseason ones, but there is a novelty aspect to those one off games, where non-league fans get dragged along for something to do.

Having week to week attendance is a different proposition

 

[PhatBoy]

Yep I know attended a couple of them and some preseason ones, but there is a novelty aspect to those one off games, where non-league fans get dragged along for something to do.

Having week to week attendance is a different proposition

Not disagreeing there. But the fact that the same two sides played and it maintained its year to year viability is a good sign that there is SOMETHING there

 

[NoobPie]

Their club is worth something like $800 million based on a figure I heard the other day

Edit: based on some of the data in earlier posts maybe I misheard that. I thought it was a colossal amount though and it was on the ABC who at least tend to TRY and get their numbers right when talking about that sort of thing

Yep, established that while we don't know what the basis of the $100M assets claim is we know that the club turned over about $25M in 2020 - a fraction of the big sydney leagues clubs that prop up clubs with no doubt far more support. It is actually not much more than Hawthorns two pubs turnover.

 

[slackboy72]

The NRL don’t care where the money comes from. Panthers, Eels, Souths, Roosters, Sharks are all backed by large Sports clubs. The raiders have 3-4 clubs spread throughout Canberra

5 actually.
And the richest rugby union club in the world is the Tuggeranong Vikings group which has 4 clubs down here. The biggest aussie rules team here is the Ainslie group which has two big clubs and a golf course. Every entertainment venue in town from bowling clubs to whatever has been bought up over the years by football teams of one code or another and they all run a steady stream of pokie revenue.

Meanwhile in Sydney the NRL clubs are trying to ditch their pokie revenue which is taxed at an exorbitant rate. In fact I don't think Souff$ get any money from pokie revenue. Souths juniors have pokie revenue but aren't associated with Souff$ at all.
Sharks have financial security after many years of trading while nearly insolvent thanks to a massive property development on some swampland they own.
Rorters are have a steady business in brown paper bags from Uncle Nick Politis.
Penrith have a massive superclub complex. The drongos have Lachlan Murdoch underwriting them. The storm have that caravan guy funding their losses. The Dragons have a billionaire tax dodger and media tycoon in the bahamas as a part owner. The rest are all just about trading insolvent.

 

[Aussie in exile]

The NRL don’t care where the money comes from. Panthers, Eels, Souths, Roosters, Sharks are all backed by large Sports clubs. The raiders have 3-4 clubs spread throughout Canberra

If it's all legit that's fine
I'm sure if it wasn't we would have heard something by now

 

[Fire]

It's an odd defensive 'expansion' that the NRL is proposing. There's arguments against the AFL expanding into Tasmanis because it won't expand the audiance much; but at least in that case there are a number of season memberships and gate takings, since the average Tasmanian footy fan isn't going to get on a plane every week. That can't really be said for more Brisbane NRL clubs.

Good luck to them if it happens, but I'm not sure it's going to hamper the AFLs growth in that area much just by having a slightly more local team start up there. The NRL have a plethora of new markets it could invest in, but apparently lacks the self confidence?

 

[slackboy72]

It's an odd defensive 'expansion' that the NRL is proposing.

Nothing defensive about it.
55%-60% of all advertising revenue is from the NSW and QLD markets. NRL already dominate NSW. They just want more QLD eyeballs on TV for longer.

 

[Fire]

Nothing defensive about it.
55%-60% of all advertising revenue is from the NSW and QLD markets. NRL already dominate NSW. They just want more QLD eyeballs on TV for longer.

I just don't see how this would increase eyeballs though. Though reading Valadays comments, I don't see how you could claim this isn't a defensive move, at least in part.

We shall see I guess.

 

[Gigantor]

Absolutely minimal impact.
The Broncos are one of the very few NRL clubs who operate anywhere near a middling AFL club, and that's because they are the only club in a League city.
I mean seriously, how pathetic is it that the NRL is still talking about a 2nd Brisbane club in Brisbane some 25 years after the Broncos were admitted?
Actually, it's easy to forget that for a very short period pre-super league wars, there was a 2nd Brisbane club, the Crushers.
They were an enormous failure on every level.

 

[NoobPie]

I just don't see how this would increase eyeballs though. Though reading Valadays comments, I don't see how you could claim this isn't a defensive move, at least in part.

We shall see I guess.

He's specifically identifying the AFL threat as the motivation for needing to add another Brisbane team(s)