AFL State of Origin - time to bring it back?

[western royboy]

Ironically, one of the reasons why the NRL's SOO product is so popular is because the AFL has smashed it in terms of club football and national reach. It kills the NRL on pretty much every figure that matters - attendance, national exposure, broadcast dollars... it has a decent foothold in Sydney and Brisbane, whereas very, very few people give a damn about the Storm.

NRL SOO was born out of pure hate. Both codes used to play regular state games but Queensland (like WA & SA) got sick of seeing their players who played in NSWRL turning out for NSW and belting them, SOO happened in ‘80 as a trial and when QLD won it went from there. The other key factor is that generally, Australian jumpers are on the line and as RL is an international game (albeit limited) it has some meaning as in you actually get to play RL for Australia against an opponent. To my knowledge and limited time living in Sin City, no one has ever turned up to regulation home and away RL games. I attended a lot of the games which used to start immediately following the end of a Swans game at the adjacent stadium. Swans would start at 1pm, Chooks at 5, girlfriend was a Nurse and used to work lates so I’d drop her at work head to the SCG / SFS, finish at about 7:30 grab a Pizza on the way home and pick her up after. If the crowd was between 4-7k that was a good day. Different if it was an occasion at the start of the year at the AFL you could turn up at 10 to 1 and sit wherever you liked, by Round 16 when the Swans were flying and playing the G Ablett Snr Geelong it was sold out 4 weeks in advance, it’s that kind of place very difficult to get around and geographically harder because of the rivers

 

[GhostofJimJess]

NRL SOO was born out of pure hate. Both codes used to play regular state games but Queensland (like WA & SA) got sick of seeing their players who played in NSWRL turning out for NSW and belting them, SOO happened in ‘80 as a trial and when QLD won it went from there. The other key factor is that generally, Australian jumpers are on the line and as RL is an international game (albeit limited) it has some meaning as in you actually get to play RL for Australia against an opponent. To my knowledge and limited time living in Sin City, no one has ever turned up to regulation home and away RL games. I attended a lot of the games which used to start immediately following the end of a Swans game at the adjacent stadium. Swans would start at 1pm, Chooks at 5, girlfriend was a Nurse and used to work lates so I’d drop her at work head to the SCG / SFS, finish at about 7:30 grab a Pizza on the way home and pick her up after. If the crowd was between 4-7k that was a good day. Different if it was an occasion at the start of the year at the AFL you could turn up at 10 to 1 and sit wherever you liked, by Round 16 when the Swans were flying and playing the G Ablett Snr Geelong it was sold out 4 weeks in advance, it’s that kind of place very difficult to get around and geographically harder because of the rivers

Yeah, Sydney just seems to have a different mentality to its NRL than Melb/Adel/Perth have towards AFL.

To add to your anecdote, my wife and I were in Sydney a few years back and went on a bit of a pub crawl on a Friday night. I was amazed when we were in a sports bar that amongst the 100 or so punters in the pub, there was nobody really watching the big screen with the Canberra vs St George playing. And it was quite a close finish. I'd equate it to a Geelong vs St Kilda AFL match which, if that were on the screen in a Victorian pub, would've had 20 or so people sitting down avidly glued to it, another dozen or so standing behind them who'd missed out on tables, and probably a bunch of others wandering past asking "who's winning?", or "how many has Cameron/Hawkins kicked?" There just wasn't the interest amongst the Sydney partying public in the NRL.

 

[glengowan]

I think State of Origin has a place. Mainly because with 18 teams and counting, the AFL has so many poor standard players playing each week, we are far away from ever seeing our game at its absolute best.

Just have one game per year late April/early May. Any player that makes themselves unavailable automatically misses the next round and pay the players well. Vic, SA, WA, Allies and change the fixture each year so every team plays each other home and away over a period of time. Allies take their home games around the country.

 

[My_Username]

I think State of Origin has a place. Mainly because with 18 teams and counting, the AFL has so many poor standard players playing each week, we are far away from ever seeing our game at its absolute best.

Just have one game per year late April/early May. Any player that makes themselves unavailable automatically misses the next round and pay the players well. Vic, SA, WA, Allies and change the fixture each year so every team plays each other home and away over a period of time. Allies take their home games around the country.

It's a nice idea for the reason you mention, but it's just impractical.

The other issue is 'Allies'. How do you feel about Vic Vs 'the rest'? That's about how those in the states covered by the 'Allies' probably feel.

 

[iameviljez]

I think State of Origin has a place. Mainly because with 18 teams and counting, the AFL has so many poor standard players playing each week, we are far away from ever seeing our game at its absolute best.

Just have one game per year late April/early May. Any player that makes themselves unavailable automatically misses the next round and pay the players well. Vic, SA, WA, Allies and change the fixture each year so every team plays each other home and away over a period of time. Allies take their home games around the country.

I do think that if you have to effectively force players to play, then you have a problem.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

I do think that if you have to effectively force players to play, then you have a problem.

If its a tournament once every four years or so, you might not have that issue (you would for Allies or All-Stars or other mixtures). The clubs would still be a blocker. Even post-season in place of International Rules, when injuries are far less likely to become a club issue, they would block it.

Post-season venues become an issue in WA and SA as well, cricket has rights to the grounds by that stage. Docklands, Kardinia Park, Sydney Showgrounds, Carrara, York Park, guessing Mararra in Darwin, are available; not Adelaide Oval or Perth Stadium without some negotiations and Football Park and Subi are no longer options.

 

[iameviljez]

If its a tournament once every four years or so, you might not have that issue (you would for Allies or All-Stars or other mixtures). The clubs would still be a blocker. Even post-season in place of International Rules, when injuries are far less likely to become a club issue, they would block it.

Post-season venues become an issue in WA and SA as well, cricket has rights to the grounds by that stage. Docklands, Kardinia Park, Sydney Showgrounds, Carrara, York Park, guessing Mararra in Darwin, are available; not Adelaide Oval or Perth Stadium without some negotiations and Football Park and Subi are no longer options.

Not to mention that I just can’t see the gap that is crying out for State of Origin. Certainly, in the pre-AFL days, the thrill of the best of the SANFL, VFL and WAFL playing against each other made sense. Nowadays, with the exception of Witts and Sinclair, the best in the AFL will be facing off against each other in September anyway.

 

[CrowToon]

Watching the 2022 rugby league state of origin series makes you lament the fact we don't have something on that scale. The atmosphere at Suncorp tonight would have been manic.

 

[jackster83]

It's never coming back sadly.

Would be nice to see them name sides for SA, WA, Vic, etc each year like they do for AA. Maybe a jumper presentation too.

 

[Walshawk]

SOO is a victim of the AFL’s success. Players are drafted from all states and territories and if you have six or eight teams the standard will not be high enough, and if you have combined states (Allies or All Stars), then the passion is not there amongst either the fans or the players.
RL players come 99.9% from two states only (plus O/S). So the games goes to another level when you have 80/90% of the game’s best player playing. And the fans have the passion. Last night’s game was awesome, it was brutal, it is the biggest rivalry in Australian sport, but it is the only thing that they have that is better than how the AFL is set up.

 

[iameviljez]

Watching the 2022 rugby league state of origin series makes you lament the fact we don't have something on that scale. The atmosphere at Suncorp tonight would have been manic.

I reckon if we didn’t stuff the GF full of cashed up neutrals we would.

 

[juss]

It's never coming back sadly.

Would be nice to see them name sides for SA, WA, Vic, etc each year like they do for AA. Maybe a jumper presentation too.

I completely disagree. If the AFL think there is money to be made (either via attendances or moreso a broadcast 1 night event), then they will give it a crack. However it will likely be a soft, exhibition style preseason training run intensity, and that's why it will suck.

SoO in the NRL is epic because you literally have players that will punch on with each other and risk season ending injury to play, such is their commitment and passion. I'm not saying every game needs an all in brawl, but it just shows how invested they all are, as some of these guys on opposing sides getting into each other are actually club teammates. The media, commentators, fans, are so invested in it too, it's pure passion.

It would take a long time before fans got around it in the AFL, and I don't think you'd have players bleed or fans go nuts for the "Allies" team.
VIC, SA, WA would actually mean something, but the lack of a genuine fourth I think would always mean there's something missing.

 

[Jugada]

The fact the NRL SOO means more than their actual Grand Final just shows how garbage the league is

No self respecting fan should give a * about some fabricated state pride at this time of year when their club is pushing towards September

 

[TassieSaint]

SOO is a victim of the AFL’s success. Players are drafted from all states and territories and if you have six or eight teams the standard will not be high enough, and if you have combined states (Allies or All Stars), then the passion is not there amongst either the fans or the players.
RL players come 99.9% from two states only (plus O/S). So the games goes to another level when you have 80/90% of the game’s best player playing. And the fans have the passion. Last night’s game was awesome, it was brutal, it is the biggest rivalry in Australian sport, but it is the only thing that they have that is better than how the AFL is set up.

I don't buy this argument. A game between Vic and SA/WA would have probably 80% of the top 50 players in the league, and both sides would be better than any one club. Would be an extremely high standard game.

The key as you say is to not * around with "Allies" and "Dream Team" or whatever the * that no one gives a s**t about. Have a rotating fixture between Vic/SA/WA as the showpiece and then a one off match between 2 of QLD/NSW/Tas/NT every year.

 

[western royboy]

I don't buy this argument. A game between Vic and SA/WA would have probably 80% of the top 50 players in the league, and both sides would be better than any one club. Would be an extremely high standard game.

The key as you say is to not * around with "Allies" and "Dream Team" or whatever the * that no one gives a s**t about. Have a rotating fixture between Vic/SA/WA as the showpiece and then a one off match between 2 of QLD/NSW/Tas/NT every year.

Victoria in todays day and age would wipe the floor with any of the other sides, which is why they are split at U/18 level into Metro and Country.

 

[western royboy]

The fact the NRL SOO means more than their actual Grand Final just shows how garbage the league is

No self respecting fan should give a * about some fabricated state pride at this time of year when their club is pushing towards September

It’s ok not to understand the game because you support AFL. Last nights game was possibly one of the best Origin’s ever, still well short of the North Queensland Cowboys extra time GF win a few years back. Nothing about Origin is fabricated, it’s simply silly to suggest it.

 

[iameviljez]

Nothing about Origin is fabricated, it’s simply silly to suggest it.

I think the poster is suggesting that state pride in AFL SOO would be fabricated and personally I have to agree. I could not give two shiny shits about beating SA or WA.

 

[mcgarnacle]

The fact the NRL SOO means more than their actual Grand Final just shows how garbage the league is

No self respecting fan should give a * about some fabricated state pride at this time of year when their club is pushing towards September

The FIFA World Cup is a tin pot comp too in comparison to club domestic leagues.

Everyone has an attachment to wear they come from. You choose the club you support, probably because you liked the colours or the mascot. Tell me which allegiance is fabricated again?

 

[mcgarnacle]

I think the poster is suggesting that state pride in AFL SOO would be fabricated and personally I have to agree. I could not give two shiny shits about beating SA or WA.

Don't worry. No one else cares about AFL SOO anyway. Rugby League have taken the concept beyond anything the AFL can muster.

 

[iameviljez]

The FIFA World Cup is a tin pot comp too in comparison to club domestic leagues.

Everyone has an attachment to wear they come from. You choose the club you support, probably because you liked the colours or the mascot. Tell me which allegiance is fabricated again?

No it’s not. If I asked you right now what Zidane’s greatest achievement was, people would nominate his 1998 or 2006 World Cup campaigns - and he won pretty much all there was with Madrid.

Whatever the original reason is for supporting the club you support, or your state, doesn’t matter (for most, it’s family). What matter is that when the game is being played, that affection is genuine and not forced.

I’d suggest that for most Vics, it became forced. Now, if NSW was a footy state, that might not be the case, but I don’t think there’s any serious dislike of WA and SA.

 

[mcgarnacle]

No it’s not. If I asked you right now what Zidane’s greatest achievement was, people would nominate his 1998 or 2006 World Cup campaigns - and he won pretty much all there was with Madrid.

Whatever the original reason is for supporting the club you support, or your state, doesn’t matter (for most, it’s family). What matter is that when the game is being played, that affection is genuine and not forced.

I’d suggest that for most Vics, it became forced. Now, if NSW was a footy state, that might not be the case, but I don’t think there’s any serious dislike of WA and SA.

I was being sarcastic with the world cup comment. It's obvious, otherwise the rest of the post would've been a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

Of course the World Cup is the biggest event in football!

Btw, France didn't win the World Cup in 2006.

 

[iameviljez]

I was being sarcastic with the world cup comment. It's obvious, otherwise the rest of the post would've been a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

Of course the World Cup is the biggest event in football!

Btw, France didn't win the World Cup in 2006.

No but Zidane did win the golden ball IIRC.

Anyway, I’ve generally not lost money on the silliness of BF comments before… sorry, sometimes you have to assume Poe’s law.

 

[Walshawk]

I don't buy this argument. A game between Vic and SA/WA would have probably 80% of the top 50 players in the league, and both sides would be better than any one club. Would be an extremely high standard game.

The key as you say is to not * around with "Allies" and "Dream Team" or whatever the * that no one gives a s**t about. Have a rotating fixture between Vic/SA/WA as the showpiece and then a one off match between 2 of QLD/NSW/Tas/NT every year.

Victoria might have 50% of the top players but SA would only have around 15%. Still, a genuine, fierce SOO match of WA or SA v Vic would be awesome, neither the players nor the fans have the passion to make it a success. RL SOO works because you have eight millions fans behind one team and five millions behind the other. The passion is there on and off the field.

 

[glengowan]

Split the teams to be on either side of The Great Dividing Range. The Green of the East and its cities and country along the coast from Cairns, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Geelong and down to Hobart vs the Gold of the West and all of inland Australia, Canberra, Bendigo, Mildura, Adelaide, Darwin, Perth, Broome etc.

It's probably a fairer divide and as meaningful as any other. Indigenous uniforms. Make it a celebration of our game and our country. The natural divide that is the Great Dividing Range.

Possible teams:

Great Dividing Range | Aneroid

Map showing the path of the Great Dividing Range through QLD, NSW and VIC in Australia.

anero.id

 

[David_Full]

I don't want any of Richmond players playing in it, just another game where injuries could pop up.

If your going to do it needs to be at the start of the year treated like a pre-season game like The Bushfires Charity Victoria v All-Stars game.