AFL State of Origin - time to bring it back?

[Power Raid]

state of origin should be a thing but only for retired players

to be played at ovals with a grass hill, so cars can pull up and beep their horn to celebrate goals. BYO full strength a must and free entry for utes with mattresses in the back.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

An Origin game is the equivalent of another Grand Final in the advertising world.

In RL, where practically the whole audience is invested in it. That's not really possible for Australian Football. A large portion (possibly a majority now) very possibly won't care about any games, many others will likely only care about games with their state involved.
And a round of the AFL is probably more (financially) valuable than a round of NRL.

 

[Kwality]

In RL, where practically the whole audience is invested in it. That's not really possible for Australian Football. A large portion (possibly a majority now) very possibly won't care about any games, many others will likely only care about games with their state involved.
And a round of the AFL is probably more (financially) valuable than a round of NRL.

The best players in a dinkum game will attract a big audience & premium dollars for the 'TV rights'.
I do agree a round of AFL is probably worth more rights $'s than a round of NRL. Its got nothing to do with Origin footy though.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

The best players in a dinkum game will attract a big audience & premium dollars for the 'TV rights'.
I do agree a round of AFL is probably worth more rights $'s than a round of NRL. Its got nothing to do with Origin footy though.

In terms of scrapping AFL rounds in favour of Origin, as proposed earlier, it is very relevant. But, no matter what, I don't see the clubs allowing any sort of regular SoO.

Vic v WA would get an audience. In Vic and WA, and some from other markets. SA v NSW would probably not get much audience outside the already relatively small (compared to the markets advertisers get worked up about) Adelaide market. Qld v Tas barely an audience worth putting it on youtube. Allies, All-Stars, etc, nobody would bother.
That's the big difference, financially. RL gets everyone involved in Origin games because they basically service two markets and it has become so big they can even draw an audience from outside RL regions. Australian Football SoO can never do the former, and without it won't do the latter.

 

[Kwality]

In terms of scrapping AFL rounds in favour of Origin, as proposed earlier, it is very relevant. But, no matter what, I don't see the clubs allowing any sort of regular SoO.

Vic v WA would get an audience. In Vic and WA, and some from other markets. SA v NSW would probably not get much audience outside the already relatively small (compared to the markets advertisers get worked up about) Adelaide market. Qld v Tas barely an audience worth putting it on youtube. Allies, All-Stars, etc, nobody would bother.
That's the big difference, financially. RL gets everyone involved in Origin games because they basically service two markets and it has become so big they can even draw an audience from outside RL regions. Australian Football SoO can never do the former, and without it won't do the latter.

Only the players can deliver Origin football. What shape that is would be up to the AFL.

 

[My_Username]

An Origin game is the equivalent of another Grand Final in the advertising world.

In the NRL sure.

In AFL, not so much.

 

[Kwality]

In the NRL sure.

In AFL, not so much.

Pure speculation either way, we dont know.

What we do know:

By the Numbers: The most watched programs of 2021

Mediaweek has broken down the numbers for the most watched shows from January 17th through until December 22nd 2021.

www.mediaweek.com.au

FTA Programs with Over 1 Million Overnight Viewers - 2021
1 AFL: Grand Final: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs Seven 3,006,000
2 AFL: Grand Final: Presentations Seven 2,667,000
3 AFL: Grand Final: On The Ground Seven Seven 2,266,000
4 NRL Grand Final Day - Match Nine 2,202,000
5 Tokyo Games Opening Ceremony Seven 2,117,000
6 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 9 – Night Seven 2,070,000
7 State of Origin Game One Nine 1,911,000
8 State of Origin Game Two Nine 1,862,000
9 The Block - Winner Announced Nine 1,835,000
10 NRL Grand Final Day - Presentation Nine 1,794,000
11 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 12 – Night Seven 1,791,000
12 State of Origin Game Three Nine 1,746,000
13 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 8 – Night Seven 1,699,000
14 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Countdown To Opening Ceremony Seven 1,640,000
15 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 2 – Night Seven 1,585,000
16 The Block - Grand Final Nine 1,555,000
17 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 9 – Afternoon Seven 1,524,000
18 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 9 – Evening Seven 1,519,000
19 AFL: Grand Final: Pre Match Entertainment Seven 1,464,000
20 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 10 – Night Seven 1,439,000

Theres more, see the link.

 

[My_Username]

Pure speculation either way, we dont know.

What we do know:

By the Numbers: The most watched programs of 2021

Mediaweek has broken down the numbers for the most watched shows from January 17th through until December 22nd 2021.

www.mediaweek.com.au

FTA Programs with Over 1 Million Overnight Viewers - 2021
1 AFL: Grand Final: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs Seven 3,006,000
2 AFL: Grand Final: Presentations Seven 2,667,000
3 AFL: Grand Final: On The Ground Seven Seven 2,266,000
4 NRL Grand Final Day - Match Nine 2,202,000
5 Tokyo Games Opening Ceremony Seven 2,117,000
6 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 9 – Night Seven 2,070,000
7 State of Origin Game One Nine 1,911,000
8 State of Origin Game Two Nine 1,862,000
9 The Block - Winner Announced Nine 1,835,000
10 NRL Grand Final Day - Presentation Nine 1,794,000
11 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 12 – Night Seven 1,791,000
12 State of Origin Game Three Nine 1,746,000
13 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 8 – Night Seven 1,699,000
14 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Countdown To Opening Ceremony Seven 1,640,000
15 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 2 – Night Seven 1,585,000
16 The Block - Grand Final Nine 1,555,000
17 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 9 – Afternoon Seven 1,524,000
18 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 9 – Evening Seven 1,519,000
19 AFL: Grand Final: Pre Match Entertainment Seven 1,464,000
20 Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games: Day 10 – Night Seven 1,439,000

Theres more, see the link.

AFL SOO has never been nearly as big a thing as it is with NRL (outside of WA & SA anyway ), and there is no reason to believe it would ever be so.

 

[Robertio]

AFL SOO has never been nearly as big a thing as it is with NRL (outside of WA & SA anyway ), and there is no reason to believe it would ever be so.

Yep it's a religion up north, the teams and coaches from the NRL got behind it, that never happened with the AFL.

 

[Cleavy]

were they still doing SOO at State Level (VFL/SANFL/WAFL) pre-Covid, and did it resume once restrictions eased slightly?

 

[iameviljez]

The best players in a dinkum game will attract a big audience & premium dollars for the 'TV rights'.
I do agree a round of AFL is probably worth more rights $'s than a round of NRL. Its got nothing to do with Origin footy though.

Except they did have the best players, playing their hearts out, and the crowd lost interest before the players did - MCG attendances (with the exception of 1989) were particularly crap.

1991 through 95 had Lockett, Dunstall and Ablett all lining up in the same forward line. Only South Australia still pulled decent crowds so far as I know, with the exception of the EJ Whitten farewell game.

SOO was at its peak in the 1980s, when there was a reason for it - the talent drain to Victoria.

The theory sounds great, but in reality people don’t feel attached to it.

 

[Kwality]

AFL SOO has never been nearly as big a thing as it is with NRL (outside of WA & SA anyway ), and there is no reason to believe it would ever be so.

Its dollars passing the door for the AFL.

 

[Bjo187]

Its dollars passing the door for the AFL.

It's not only that, it's things like media exposure and basically giving a free kick to the NRL to increase it's appeal in the southern states by having zero equivalent. It's also positive media exposure in the northern states showing that AFL actually is in fact played by a lot of nsw and queenslanders and helps solidify that if you wanna play a true national sport you need to play Australian football.

So simply it's not just the game, or the money, it's all the flow on affects of brand awareness, nationally and not giving your competitor a leg up. I mean the NRL actively try to block any afl success in the northern states every year in a number of ways, or copy the AFL, the AFL don't even look over their shoulder to see what the NRL are doing well I don't think. Maybe understandable in the past, but they could learn a few things these days, especially around the appeal of representative football, if it's done well.

 

[My_Username]

Its dollars passing the door for the AFL.

But is the cost worth the expense?

3 games required, 6 teams worth of players, all paid a premium on their usual salary in order to get them to play, 3 sets of ground expenses, etc.

You also need to mess up the annual schedule (AFLPA would be all over them about these players losing a week of their time off...overtime $$$, and if it costs a round of normal H&A, that's more $$$ lost). Clubs would also expect to be compensated for losing players (especially if they get injured).

Only one of those games is likely to make any noticeable amount of money.

and all for the PR own goal of being much smaller than the NRL equivalent.

 

[Kwality]

But is the cost worth the expense?

3 games required, 6 teams worth of players, all paid a premium on their usual salary in order to get them to play, 3 sets of ground expenses, etc.

You also need to mess up the annual schedule (AFLPA would be all over them about these players losing a week of their time off...overtime $$$, and if it costs a round of normal H&A, that's more $$$ lost). Clubs would also expect to be compensated for losing players (especially if they get injured).

Only one of those games is likely to make any noticeable amount of money.

and all for the PR own goal of being much smaller than the NRL equivalent.

The NRL have taken the WAFL inspired concept & its the backbone of its media rights value*.
One off is a joke, we are so far behind we'd need to commit to some regimen to rebuild what went the way of the dodo with the national comp.
Only the players would make it happen so the AFLPA will be told by its members.

* Gil & co would know what the premium paid to the NRL is. They never talk about it for good reason.

 

[My_Username]

The NRL have taken the WAFL inspired concept & its the backbone of its media rights value*.
One off is a joke, we are so far behind we'd need to commit to some regimen to rebuild what went the way of the dodo with the national comp.
Only the players would make it happen so the AFLPA will be told by its members.

* Gil & co would know what the premium paid to the NRL is. They never talk about it for good reason.

I wasn't suggesting one off.

One off would make some money from the novelty value and players would be interested.

It's years 3-10 that would struggle.

There just isn't enough interest in AFL SOO (outside WA & SA perhaps) to make the kind of impact it does in NRL.

 

[iameviljez]

I wasn't suggesting one off.

One off would make some money from the novelty value and players would be interested.

It's years 3-10 that would struggle.

There just isn't enough interest in AFL SOO (outside WA & SA perhaps) to make the kind of impact it does in NRL.

The one-off game in 2008 was excellent, loved it. But you are right - maintaining interest in rep football every two years proved too much for the AFL in the 90s, and I see no reason for that to change now.

 

[My_Username]

The one-off game in 2008 was excellent, loved it. But you are right - maintaining interest in rep football every two years proved too much for the AFL in the 90s, and I see no reason for that to change now.

I think it's mostly a nostalgia thing by WA & SA fans.

They fondly remember 'kicking a Vic', and have forgotten that they did so in no small part due to various advantages they had that just wouldn't exist, or would be much smaller these days. (much bigger home ground advantage than would be the case now, more motivated players, club support, etc.)

Interest in WA & SA would probably be high as a result of the history for the first few times, but when they find history isn't repeating, and the matches are much more likely to be won by the Vics (just look at the prospective teams), that would rapidly fade.

 

[iameviljez]

NRL ruins multiple rounds by making Origin players miss club games. AFL needs that like a hole in the head.

Imagine if the week before Geelong v Melbourne, Gawn, Petracca, Oliver and Viney were all picked for their state sides, while Guthrie, Selwood, Stanley and Atkins were all (quite plausibly) overlooked. As we saw, Melbourne got beaten up in the middle - but if we’d had SOO, they would rightly be very upset.

 

[Kwality]

were they still doing SOO at State Level (VFL/SANFL/WAFL) pre-Covid, and did it resume once restrictions eased slightly?

Those games arent played to Origin rules.
Games between the State Leagues have been played forever,* just not under Origin rules. Its why Kevin Murray captained WA, Mike Fitzpatrick captained Victoria .....

*Australian rules football matches between teams representing Australian colonies, states and territories have been held since 1879.

First Origin game was 1977.

 

[My_Username]

Imagine if the week before Geelong v Melbourne, Gawn, Petracca, Oliver and Viney were all picked for their state sides, while Guthrie, Selwood, Stanley and Atkins were all (quite plausibly) overlooked. As we saw, Melbourne got beaten up in the middle - but if we’d had SOO, they would rightly be very upset.

I bet star players would also 'love' having clubs in contract negotiations tell them they are, in effect, injury prone because they'll be missing games every year.

 

[glengowan]

June Long Weekend - Australian Community Football Round

All matches to be televised and various stories/documentaries highlighting the plight/importance of Community Football around the country. In the week leading up, instead of Football media talking about injuries/contracts/scandals - have them take a deep look at the stories and teams representing the various communities and explaining to the viewers/listeners how each competition will work and what it means. Encourage taking out memberships or volunteering for local clubs.

Fri Night - AFL Men's All-Star Game between those representing/born/grew up on the Coastal side of the Great Dividing Range vs Inland/West of the Great Dividing Range
Sat Night (in Darwin) - AFLW/AFL Double Header Women's & Men's Indigenous All-Stars game between those representing/born/grew up in Northern Australia and those South of a line from the NSW/QLD border straight across to Cooper Pedy then to Geraldton.
Mon Arvo - AFLW Women's All-Star Game (same teams as Fri Night Game)

Plus Men's & Women's

• SANFL vs WAFL State Game
• Opening Round of the U18 State Championships
• Australian Community Football Championships*

*Consisting of a Carnival played over the 3 days with teams representing Vic Metro, Vic Country Coastal, Vic Country Inland, SA Metro, SA Country, WA Metro, WA Country, NSW, QLD, TAS, NT, ACT from the various leagues below State League Level (i.e. not AFL, SANFL, WAFL or VFL). A stand alone full game on the Monday for the Grand Finals played before the AFLW All-Star Match.

 

[western royboy]

June Long Weekend - Australian Community Football Round

All matches to be televised and various stories/documentaries highlighting the plight/importance of Community Football around the country. In the week leading up, instead of Football media talking about injuries/contracts/scandals - have them take a deep look at the stories and teams representing the various communities and explaining to the viewers/listeners how each competition will work and what it means. Encourage taking out memberships or volunteering for local clubs.

Fri Night - AFL Men's All-Star Game between those representing/born/grew up on the Coastal side of the Great Dividing Range vs Inland/West of the Great Dividing Range
Sat Night (in Darwin) - AFLW/AFL Double Header Women's & Men's Indigenous All-Stars game between those representing/born/grew up in Northern Australia and those South of a line from the NSW/QLD border straight across to Cooper Pedy then to Geraldton.
Mon Arvo - AFLW Women's All-Star Game (same teams as Fri Night Game)

Plus Men's & Women's

• SANFL vs WAFL State Game
• Opening Round of the U18 State Championships
• Australian Community Football Championships*

*Consisting of a Carnival played over the 3 days with teams representing Vic Metro, Vic Country Coastal, Vic Country Inland, SA Metro, SA Country, WA Metro, WA Country, NSW, QLD, TAS, NT, ACT from the various leagues below State League Level (i.e. not AFL, SANFL, WAFL or VFL). A stand alone full game on the Monday for the Grand Finals played before the AFLW All-Star Match.

Love the concept

Absolutely will never happen.

AFL do not give two shits about Community Football.

 

[Bjo187]

I was thinking, you could actually do it midweek on a Wednesday across 3 or 4 weeks mid year. I think it would give the season a boost during the tough winter grind, plus it's also taking focus away from the nrl, who get a free hit in every state with their games being stand alone on a Wednesday.

The way to effectively do this is give the bye weekend the following weekend to the teams that have players most likely selected on the Wednesday. This helps with the highest percentage of players from each state, playing for clubs in their own states these days. For example.

Round 10 mid week:
QLD v NSW (bye that weekend for swans, giants, lions, suns)

Round 11 mid week:
S.A V W.A (bye that weekend for crows, power, freo, eagles)

Round 12 mid week:
Vic metro v Vic country (bye that weekend for the best 6 of the 10 Vic clubs)

 

[eth-dog]

Have a complete bye round, play:

WA vs Vic Country, Perth Stadium, Friday night
NSW/ACT vs Queensland, SCG, Saturday afternoon
Vic Metro vs SA, MCG, Saturday night
Tassie vs NT, Bellerive, Sunday afternoon