News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[Foxx]

Father sons are a unique part of our game.
I think they should be free.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Father sons are a unique part of our game.
I think they should be free.

I agree, it would help the middling Saints a lot!

Would also assist the Vic clubs in retaining all those junk picks they've had to pay for F/S, mmmm, junk picks

 

[go_the_dockers]

What should change then so WA clubs aren't disadvantaged then?
Isn't distance the main problem, it would be very hard to change that ( unless WA clubs get 12 home games in a 22 round season, that means the other 16 need to have one less home game severy 8 seasons). I doubt they agree to that though.

Mcg grand final
Marquee time slots
National broadcast games
Father son
Nga

 

[ScrappyDo]

Simple enough to sort out.

Change the point/pick consumption to consume the highest value picks and/or future picks available.
1st, F1st, 2nd, F2nd etc

Start point consumption with a pick in the appropriate round or they miss out.

If the club have a gap in the pick order, they miss out.

 

[Caligo]

It would also require the complete absence of the WAFL. The Suns academy IS the elite pathway in their area of QLD. Not a particularly well known production area for footballers. Setting up a system for kids already IN an elite talent pathway isn't quite the same thing.

In any case, clubs had a chance to establish a pathway in areas where one was lacking through the NSW rookie scheme and, surprise surprise, did *-all apart from skimming a few players while complaining about how hard it was.

The Suns academy is definitely not the only pathway. Southport juniors is a pretty good pathway and has been for decades.

But it isn't even close to as good a pathway as exists in WA, SA or Vic, which is why I support Northern academies. Maybe we can sort out a few idiosyncrasies like the points values of top 5 picks, making bidding teams need to use draft picks in the same round as the bid and father sons not being raided by academies, but we can both agree on the importance of northern academies in growing the game.

 

[.Shotties.]

The Suns academy is definitely not the only pathway. Southport juniors is a pretty good pathway and has been for decades.

...man, I appreciate you come from a somewhat less blindly angry place than a lot of the posters on this topic but you post some ignorant stuff. Southport juniors were an elite talent pathway in SE Queensland for decades? No.

 

[bluespooner]

It would also require the complete absence of the WAFL. The Suns academy IS the elite pathway in their area of QLD. Not a particularly well known production area for footballers. Setting up a system for kids already IN an elite talent pathway isn't quite the same thing.

In any case, clubs had a chance to establish a pathway in areas where one was lacking through the NSW rookie scheme and, surprise surprise, did *-all apart from skimming a few players while complaining about how hard it was.

It was a good thing that Hawthorn was able to establish a pathway for Isaac Smith (Cootamundra), Luke Breust (Temora) and Matt Suckling (Wagga) who all played in Hawthorn's 2014 premiership; ironically over the swans who had neglected regional NSW, possibly because they found it too hard and were only interested identifying talent in the northern suburbs of Sydney.

Due to the swans neglect in providing a pathway, Hawthorn had more NSW players in their premiership team than what the swans had in their defeated team.

 

[Caligo]

...man, I appreciate you come from a somewhat less blindly angry place than a lot of the posters on this topic but you post some ignorant stuff. Southport juniors were an elite talent pathway in SE Queensland for decades? No.

Southport has produced 30 afl players in the last 35 years, including stars like Capper, Ashcroft, Reiwoldt, Merrett, Beams and Tippett. It has been a superb talent pathway since the late 80s which is as far back as I have numbers.

I don't actually think the Suns should have been given the licence. I would have given it to the Sharks. But that is beyond the scope of this thread.

I am genuinely curious how you will attempt to argue this is ignorant though.

 

[.Shotties.]

It was a good thing that Hawthorn was able to establish a pathway for Isaac Smith (Cootamundra), Luke Breust (Temora) and Matt Suckling (Wagga) who all played in Hawthorn's 2014 premiership; ironically over the swans who had neglected regional NSW, possibly because they found it too hard and were only interested identifying talent in the northern suburbs of Sydney.

Due to the swans neglect in providing a pathway, Hawthorn had more NSW players in their premiership team than what the swans had in their defeated team.

Oh this is a great argument that hasn't been addressed multiple times. Well done.

 

[.Shotties.]

Southport has produced 30 afl players in the last 35 years, including stars like Capper, Ashcroft, Reiwoldt, Merrett, Beams and Tippett. It has been a superb talent pathway since the late 80s which is as far back as I have numbers.

It's produced 22 players who've played games from their inception until the Suns Academy came in and that number drops significantly if you place a 10 game minimum on those players.

An average rate of one, barely passable afl player every half decade or so isn't an established regional talent pathways.

What's more, Capper wasn't recruited from Southport.

I am genuinely curious how you will attempt to argue this is ignorant though.

Because you have made multiple factual mistakes or massaged the stats.

 

[Caligo]

It's produced 22 players who've played games from their inception until the Suns Academy came in and that number drops significantly if you place a 10 game minimum on those players.

An average rate of one, barely passable afl player every half decade or so isn't an established regional talent pathways.

What's more, Capper wasn't recruited from Southport.

Because you have made multiple factual mistakes or massaged the stats.

Up until 2018 it was an average of 1 player drafted into the afl every year for 30 straight years. Since then, absolutely none as the academy has swallowed it whole.

That is an elite pathway by any measure. Until the academy killed it.

 

[.Shotties.]

Up until 2018 it was an average of 1 player drafted into the afl every year for 30 straight years. Since then, absolutely none as the academy has swallowed it whole.

The Suns Academy started in 2010. 2014 would be the first year of eligibility for those players. I'm not sure why 2018 is the starting point, but someone like Lachie Weller had been in the academy since he was 15.

That is an elite pathway by any measure. Until the academy killed it.

No, it's not. Again, managing to produce one AFL player who played games (again, fewer if it's more than ten games) every couple of drafts is not an elite talent pathway.

Out of curiosity, why are you not counting capper? Are you saying Southport was not a part of his pathway to becoming an afl player just because it wasn't the last club he played for? That just seems like an insanely weird point of view. Was primary school not part of your education because it wasn't the last school you went to?

Why am I not counting Southport as part of Capper's development pathway when he was born and raised in Victoria and played in Oakley before being taken by the Swans? Dunno. Have a bit of a think about it.

 

[Caligo]

The Suns Academy started in 2010. 2014 would be the first year of eligibility for those players. I'm not sure why 2018 is the starting point, but someone like Lachie Weller had been in the academy since he was 15.

No, it's not. Again, managing to produce one AFL player who played games (again, fewer if it's more than ten games) every couple of drafts is not an elite talent pathway.

30 players drafted in 30 years. There really isn't any more to say. We are just going round in circles now. Complaining that not all of them played games is a pathetic obfuscation. Just getting drafted is a huge achievement.

Denigrating Southport is pretty sad.

 

[.Shotties.]

30 players drafted in 30 years. There really isn't any more to say. We are just going round in circles now. Complaining that not all of them played games is a pathetic obfuscation. Just getting drafted is a huge achievement.

...I mean not really? When a number of those were QLD zone selections to make up a foundation squad and were in and out in a year, or were part of the Sun's academy for 3+ years, it doesn't point to that club being a high level producer of talent.

Denigrating Southport is pretty sad.

Saying that a single club isn't an elite talent pathway isn't denigrating it.

 

[Caligo]

...I mean not really? When a number of those were QLD zone selections to make up a foundation squad and were in and out in a year, or were part of the Sun's academy for 3+ years, it doesn't point to that club being a high level producer of talent.

Saying that a single club isn't an elite talent pathway isn't denigrating it.

Ok if you have problems from the zone selection period look before then. From 1987 to 2009 that is 23 years. During that period 23 players were drafted out of Southport. One on average every year. None of them were any of the caveats you tried to create.

It was absolutely an elite pathway before GC showed up to devalue it as the home of GC football.

 

[.Shotties.]

Ok if you have problems from the zone selection period look before then. From 1987 to 2009 that is 23 years. During that period 23 players were drafted out of Southport. One on average every year. None of them were any of the caveats you tried to create.

It had both players who were pre-listed outside the draft and those who were picked up a team's token last pick of the rookie draft. This probably isn't visible if you just look at a list of draftees that have played for Southport. It's why you thought Capper was a southport junionSorry mate, but you taking a position and then doing some rudimentary googling to try and fit that position doesn't work.

It was absolutely an elite pathway before GC showed up to devalue it as the home of GC football.

Again, I guess it matters how you define elite. The best the area had at the time? Yeah, sure. Consistent exposure to high-level football throughout the junior years? Not really.

 

[Caligo]

It had both players who were pre-listed outside the draft and those who were picked up a team's token last pick of the rookie draft. This probably isn't visible if you just look at a list of draftees that have played for Southport. It's why you thought Capper was a southport junionSorry mate, but you taking a position and then doing some rudimentary googling to try and fit that position doesn't work.


Again, I guess it matters how you define elite. The best the area had at the time? Yeah, sure. Consistent exposure to high-level football throughout the junior years? Not really.

I give up. A pathway to the afl is a pathway to the afl.

 

[.Shotties.]

I give up. A pathway to the afl is a pathway to the afl.

If you reduce everything to it's most basic form then yeah, sure.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

"Require clubs to use closer picks" would by definition be changing the access rules. The statement is inherently false.

Its not because its not changing the access its only changing the price paid for the player to make it represent closer to market value. The clubs will still have last call priority on taking the player.

 

[Obeanie1]

No they haven't. The WAFL and its pathays predate both AFL clubs.

Hahaha. Mate, your owners maintaining pathways that existed before your club is not the Eagles setting up and maintaining the sole elite talent pathway in the state.

Again, this is not setting up and maintaining THE sole elite talent pathway in the state. This is an NGA. It's mostly kids who are already in a pathway.

The QLD Government sponsers the Suns Academy. Their branding is all over it.

Was the Naitanui academy predating the Eagles joining?

No it wasnt. What a dumb argument. Was the Freo academy there before Freo entered the comp? No.

Was the QAFL there before the Lions and Suns? Southport producing AFL talent? Yes.

So that point you made is total BS. Just like adding the word 'sole' magically turns the debate.

The Qld gov sponsors the Suns academy. Good for the Suns. Lucky them getting even more welfare. As clearly explained the Eagles and Dockers profits fund WA football. As the clubs are owned by the WAFL. Millions every year flow from those clubs to the WAFL and grass roots footy. PLUS both clubs run academies on top.

So hands down without ANY doubts the WA clubs are milesand millions ahead of the Suns in funding and developing AFL pathways. But get SFA access.

So the Suns and others can keep their academies. Just allow others to access theirs, the ones who are actually paying for it all and running their own. And everyone starts paying fair value for priority access. Especially those clubs playing in grand finals like the Swans and Lions who no longer are struggling. Thats the bad joke.

 

[.Shotties.]

Was the Naitanui academy predating the Eagles joining?

No, it's an NGA which taps players who are mostly already in WAFL pathways.

No it wasnt. What a dumb argument. Was the Freo academy there before Freo entered the comp? No.

Whut? No-one said it did. I said the WAFL and the elite talent paths there predate both teams.

Was the QAFL there before the Lions and Suns? Southport producing AFL talent? Yes.

I do appreciate you've coupled onto this point and are also now attempting to refer to a club that occasionally produced AFL players who played a game as a talent pathway.

So that point you made is total BS. Just like adding the word 'sole' magically turns the debate.

...not...really? Sole is a pretty key point.

The Qld gov sponsors the Suns academy. Good for the Suns. Lucky them getting even more welfare.

Lol. Your argument about other clubs playing for it got ripped. Sponsorship is wellfare now? Okay mate.

As clearly explained the Eagles and Dockers profits fund WA football. As the clubs are owned by the WAFL. Millions every year flow from those clubs to the WAFL and grass roots footy. PLUS both clubs run academies on top.

Yeah I know how it works. The owners of your licence, the WAFC use their money to fund the WAFL. That isn't the Eagles doing that.

So hands down without ANY doubts the WA clubs are milesand millions ahead of the Suns in funding and developing AFL pathways. But get SFA access.

No they're not. I get the game you're trying to play where the WAFC's actions are the Eagles because by some miracle, one of two clubs in a traditional football state makes a profit for the licence holder, but that isn't the same thing as a club setting up a talent and representative pathway where there hadn't been one previously.

So the Suns and others can keep their academies. Just allow others to access theirs, the ones who are actually paying for it all and running their own. And everyone starts paying fair value for priority access. Especially those clubs playing in grand finals like the Swans and Lions who no longer are struggling. Thats the bad joke.

I missed something, are the Suns not running their academy?

 

[bluespooner]

Oh this is a great argument that hasn't been addressed multiple times. Well done.

Are you claiming it isn't factual?

 

[Elixuh]

What if we just made FS and Academy picks free. This would mean that it won’t affect the number of picks in the first round which is the reason people have become triggered.

See no evil, hear no evil.

 

[Jirik13]

What if we just made FS and Academy picks free. This would mean that it won’t affect the number of picks in the first round which is the reason people have become triggered.

See no evil, hear no evil.

You could be correct! Suns as part of concessions, pre-listed for free Budarick, Jeffrey, Rosas, Davies and nobody every complained, haha.

 

[Jirik13]

I am curious to know what clubs NGA having actually do within the program. How many kids involved (I assume no teams)? Can we see numbers somewhere? From what age? Does it include girls too? Cost? Some links would be handy to educate myself.