Women's Footy AFLW General Discussion

RobZombie

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I did notice a couple of people correctly pointing out MUFC developing players, but to say North has done anything close to what Melbourne and the Dogs have done is laughable.
It should be uncontroversial to say that:

North were involved with the MUGARS for a decade simply because it was the right thing to do.

That inevitably contributed meaningfully to the development of some players who became stars in the AFLW.

Without the vision of WB and Melbourne, and especially Susan Alberti, to bring the best players to the big stage, the AFLW probably doesn’t happen, especially not as successfully as it has.

The two original AFLW clubs with the least women’s footy bona fides have turned out to be the two biggest basket cases. Go figure.

North deserved an original license ahead of one of Carlton or Collingwood, and we wouldn’t be having this discussion (though in that alternative timeline we almost certainly still sign Kearney and probably Blackburn as well as Ashmore and Gibson).

Dogs won a flag which will fly forever. North haven’t yet.

Anyway, I hope Lochland and Huntington can get back out there and we see you again in the finals. Good luck the rest of the way.
 

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It should be uncontroversial to say that:

North were involved with the MUGARS for a decade simply because it was the right thing to do.

That inevitably contributed meaningfully to the development of some players who became stars in the AFLW.

Without the vision of WB and Melbourne, and especially Susan Alberti, to bring the best players to the big stage, the AFLW probably doesn’t happen, especially not as successfully as it has.

The two original AFLW clubs with the least women’s footy bona fides have turned out to be the two biggest basket cases. Go figure.

North deserved an original license ahead of one of Carlton or Collingwood, and we wouldn’t be having this discussion (though in that alternative timeline we almost certainly still sign Kearney and probably Blackburn as well as Ashmore and Gibson).

Dogs won a flag which will fly forever. North haven’t yet.

Anyway, I hope Lochland and Huntington can get back out there and we see you again in the finals. Good luck the rest of the way.
We lost some very good VFL players to Melbourne and the Saints, you don’t hear us telling everyone about hey were “our” players. A players development is a journey and no one club or coach is responsible.

The players you poached (15) were all developed by different coaches, it would show some class if Norf supporters at least acknowledged the benefit they are reaping from the other teams, instead of pretending they were developed by Norf.

At the end of the day, we are keen to see the competition grow, and increase the professionalism of the game. What Norf has done flies in the face of that. You only had a couple of thousand at your game in Tassie last night, other clubs already bring in 8 - 10,000 regularly, if there is a super team people will lose interest in the game except the small North Melbourne supporters. Hopefully that doesn’t happen, you win the flag and the get pillaged by Richmond and the rest of the 2020 teams, and the talent pool evens out.
 

Egga

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We lost some very good VFL players to Melbourne and the Saints, you don’t hear us telling everyone about hey were “our” players. A players development is a journey and no one club or coach is responsible.

The players you poached (15) were all developed by different coaches, it would show some class if Norf supporters at least acknowledged the benefit they are reaping from the other teams, instead of pretending they were developed by Norf.

At the end of the day, we are keen to see the competition grow, and increase the professionalism of the game. What Norf has done flies in the face of that. You only had a couple of thousand at your game in Tassie last night, other clubs already bring in 8 - 10,000 regularly, if there is a super team people will lose interest in the game except the small North Melbourne supporters. Hopefully that doesn’t happen, you win the flag and the get pillaged by Richmond and the rest of the 2020 teams, and the talent pool evens out.
As you say in your first sentence it's not about development. The reality is that North has created a women's club that players want to be a part of. Every one of the the players North "poached" had to CHOOSE North over their existing club. Why did they? They didn't have to leave, they weren't "bought" with big bags of cash. Why did the players want to come to North?

The players choose North even though the foundation clubs had two years to build a culture and camaraderie to compel the players to stay, because North has been working for a decade to create an environment that AFLW players want to be part of. THAT is why North now has a great team. And that is why we wont get pillaged by Richmond and the other 2020 teams unless the AFL engineers it.

Nevertheless, you are right that the competition will equalise over time and, if it helps in the meantime, I will gratefully acknowledge the work of the Bulldogs in establishing a competition, developing some great players and congratulate you on deservedly winning last year's flag.
 

gangsta deluxe

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Shut up or I’ll leave too!
They are right - we aren’t as active as other boards.

That’s at least in part because there are a lot less of us.

Can’t talk for anyone else but I love this team and still think we are in with a shot this year. Norf have done amazingly well in their recruitment strategy but it isn’t over yet, not by a long stretch.
 
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gangsta deluxe

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As you say in your first sentence it's not about development. The reality is that North has created a women's club that players want to be a part of. Every one of the the players North "poached" had to CHOOSE North over their existing club. Why did they? They didn't have to leave, they weren't "bought" with big bags of cash. Why did the players want to come to North?

The players choose North even though the foundation clubs had two years to build a culture and camaraderie to compel the players to stay, because North has been working for a decade to create an environment that AFLW players want to be part of. THAT is why North now has a great team. And that is why we wont get pillaged by Richmond and the other 2020 teams unless the AFL engineers it.

Nevertheless, you are right that the competition will equalise over time and, if it helps in the meantime, I will gratefully acknowledge the work of the Bulldogs in establishing a competition, developing some great players and congratulate you on deservedly winning last year's flag.
The players choose norf because you give them paying jobs outside of AFLW.

Simple and effective strategy. Don’t act like you’ve got some amazing environment there though, lol what a laugh that is.
 

Egga

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The players choose norf because you give them paying jobs outside of AFLW.

Simple and effective strategy. Don’t act like you’ve got some amazing environment there though, lol what a laugh that is.
Are you really suggesting we created 15 new full paying jobs (all paying more than the players were were previously getting paid)? Yes, that is a laugh!
 

gangsta deluxe

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Are you really suggesting we created 15 new full paying jobs (all paying more than the players were were previously getting paid)? Yes, that is a laugh!
You used your community outreach jobs (of which there are more than 15) on the players. Simple cynical strategy that worked.

Have you noticed who the players who you brought in are working for now? I suggest you look it up as the information is readily and publicly available.
 
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paulveed

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Yep for some reason I thought that when they realised they have a gold mine with AFLW they would do the right thing, how wrong I was.

Still let's see how they handle the 4 new teams coming in next year. We've got a premiership already i'm happy.
If they screw the franchise increase next year [ a virtual certainty], then they will do irreparable damage to the women's competition. Allowing these new franchises to rape and pillage existing teams, the way they did this time, and then continue this tin pot 'conference' rubbish, they will reduce the AFLW to nothing but an AFLX type Mickey Mouse gimmick, not even a watchable competition. And it is likely to take a generation or more to recover, unless it simply fades away completely as some kind of historic folly.
 

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Egga

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You used your community outreach jobs (of which there are more than 15) on the players. Simple cynical strategy that worked.

Have you noticed who the players who you brought in are working for now? I suggest you look it up as the information is readily and publicly available.
So, your argument is that North created 15 new jobs that were lucrative enough to induce the players to switch clubs AND their full time careers so they can work in community development. And that is why 15 players changed clubs. Oh dear.
 
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So, your argument is that North created 15 new jobs that were lucrative enough to induce the players to switch clubs AND their full time careers so they can work in community development. And that is why 15 players changed clubs. Oh dear.
You approached our Best and Fairest winner before the competition was even over and offered her a job, she left for job security, as simple as that. The AFLW doesn’t have much security of contracts, our club provides one year contracts only, because the competition is still growing, Norf has jumped in offering jobs.

If Norf has such a great culture why didn’t all the players you so desperately chased over the years go to you?
 

gangsta deluxe

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So, your argument is that North created 15 new jobs that were lucrative enough to induce the players to switch clubs AND their full time careers so they can work in community development. And that is why 15 players changed clubs. Oh dear.
Ludicrous straw man. Did I ever say this applies to all 15 players? You’ve set that distinction.

You poached Kearney, have given her a full time job (your best player) You have also given a number of other players jobs. This, as I said is all publicly available information (i.e. go and look it up).

Some of them, including Mo Hope, have careers in other fields so you didn’t need to. She seems to have been disgruntled regardless. You also had the go home factor with Kaitlyn Ashmore.

In any case, it’s not like they came to you because of some great culture that Norf definitively do not have. You aggressively target players, which is all well and good.
 

Egga

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Ludicrous straw man. Did I ever say this applies to all 15 players?
Yes, you did:

The players choose norf because you give them paying jobs outside of AFLW.
Some of them, including Mo Hope, have careers in other fields so you didn’t need to.
OK, so now we agree the players North recruited didn't all come to North because we offered them jobs. So, if not for jobs, why did they come to North? Because we offer them a better environment than the one they have come from.
 
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Yes, you did:
OK, so now we agree the players North recruited didn't all come to North because we offered them jobs. So, if not for jobs, why did they come to North? Because we offer them a better environment than the one they have come from.
You seem to think that anyone who played for Melbourne University is automatically a Norf player.

Norf has become old Carlton of the AFLW, bags of money going to players in the form of jobs, to lure them over. Including taking a number of Bulldog coaching staff, Lauren Morecroft and Esther Hassett. Don’t try and make out you have a great culture, money talks so players walked. Don’t blame the players, but don’t try and bullshite us with this culture crap.

Let’s face it, Norf just wanna be the Bulldogs.
 

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Yes, you did:





OK, so now we agree the players North recruited didn't all come to North because we offered them jobs. So, if not for jobs, why did they come to North? Because we offer them a better environment than the one they have come from.
You don’t get to determine what my argument was. You’re saying that I was arguing that every single player you got from other clubs did so because of employment. I didn’t mean that, and persisting on that point is both childish and irrelevant.

My argument was that you offered players jobs (no not every last one of them) and that this was both cynical and effective. You cannot deny that is the case, with your best player (potentially the competition’s best player) being an example of this. Others came simply because they were disgruntled, had the go home factor, etc.

But don’t ever try to suggest that your club offers a good environment, for women in particular. You’ve got a disgraceful history in that respect and until only a couple of years ago James ******* Brayshaw was your chairman. Do you ever wonder why people laugh at your club and perceive you the way they do? It’s because you have a piss poor culture and you are insecure about it.
 

Testekill

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How and why does GWS have an AFLW team? They can hardly get bums on seats for the men's team. I'm watching right now and I think I had more people at my Bar Mitzvah than are there today. Oy vey!
Their AFLW team is actually doing good stuff for women's football. They did kinda get it by default because Sydney didn't have the facilities to support a AFLW team but you can't fault them for how they're going.
 

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You seem to think that anyone who played for Melbourne University is automatically a Norf player.

Norf has become old Carlton of the AFLW, bags of money going to players in the form of jobs, to lure them over. Including taking a number of Bulldog coaching staff, Lauren Morecroft and Esther Hassett. Don’t try and make out you have a great culture, money talks so players walked. Don’t blame the players, but don’t try and bullshite us with this culture crap.

Let’s face it, Norf just wanna be the Bulldogs.
What a bizarre post. I didn't mention Melbourne University at all - if anything I said development had nothing to do with it. Very strange for you to bring that up.

As for bags of money, you know very well that North Melbourne is in a similar boat to the Bulldogs when it comes to money - we can't afford bags of money. In fact, we probably can't afford bags of sand. But, more importantly, given many of the players switched to North WITHOUT being given a job and WITHOUT being paid more, why did they leave? It's because North offered a better environment than the one they had come from. It's very simple.

You’re saying that I was arguing that every single player you got from other clubs did so because of employment. I didn’t mean that.
If you didn't mean that then you shouldn't have said it. But thank you for admitting that what you posted was factually incorrect.

Others came simply because they were disgruntled, had the go home factor, etc.
Thank you for agreeing that players came to North because we offered them a better environment

But don’t ever try to suggest that your club offers a good environment
Hang on, you've just admitted that players came to North for a better environment.

But don’t ever try to suggest that your club offers a good environment
Hang on, didn't you just say
You don’t get to determine what my argument was.
Wow, I haven't seen this many backflips since Nadia Comaneci. It's impossible to discuss something with someone who changes their mind with every post (and sometimes even within the same post), rather than address the facts as they stand. So I will leave you here at least comfortable that we have finally agreed that players have chosen North because it offers a better environment than the one they have come from. Perhaps now you can ease off the hand wringing, move on and have a nice evening!
 

gordo2016

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Yes, you did:





OK, so now we agree the players North recruited didn't all come to North because we offered them jobs. So, if not for jobs, why did they come to North? Because we offer them a better environment than the one they have come from.
Football clubs are really similar, only difference is really the players you play with. I played with 3 different ones and the environment was virtually the same in all of them, although the results were different because who was out on the park. They to Norf maybe because they wanted to part of something new, they got offered something that the club they left wouldn't offer them or they had mates that were going there. Stop offering this pathetic drivel that Norf is the only club that looks after its players and its culture is better than any of the other clubs.
 
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What a bizarre post. I didn't mention Melbourne University at all - if anything I said development had nothing to do with it. Very strange for you to bring that up.

As for bags of money, you know very well that North Melbourne is in a similar boat to the Bulldogs when it comes to money - we can't afford bags of money. In fact, we probably can't afford bags of sand. But, more importantly, given many of the players switched to North WITHOUT being given a job and WITHOUT being paid more, why did they leave? It's because North offered a better environment than the one they had come from. It's very simple.



If you didn't mean that then you shouldn't have said it. But thank you for admitting that what you posted was factually incorrect.



Thank you for agreeing that players came to North because we offered them a better environment



Hang on, you've just admitted that players came to North for a better environment.



Hang on, didn't you just say


Wow, I haven't seen this many backflips since Nadia Comaneci. It's impossible to discuss something with someone who changes their mind with every post (and sometimes even within the same post), rather than address the facts as they stand. So I will leave you here at least comfortable that we have finally agreed that players have chosen North because it offers a better environment than the one they have come from. Perhaps now you can ease off the hand wringing, move on and have a nice evening!
Ok...time to move off this thread. You've made your point and are really starting to piss everyone else off - me included. Go to the AFL Board if you want an argument, or if you want to continue this conversation style, go to Bay 13.
 

Egga

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Another peculiar post.
Stop offering this pathetic drivel that Norf is the only club that looks after its players
I didn't say that at all.

They went to Norf maybe because they wanted to part of something new, they got offered something that the club they left wouldn't offer them.
OK, so you agree they came to North because they thought the environment would be better. Not sure why you needed to take such a disagreeable tone, but thank you.
 

Egga

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Ok...time to move off this thread. You've made your point and are really starting to piss everyone else off - me included. Go to the AFL Board if you want an argument, or if you want to continue this conversation style, go to Bay 13.
Apologies, I made my last post before seeing yours. I shall humbly move along.
 

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There's been so much focus on the AFLW being too low scoring and trying to create more free-flowing attacking football, but for me this has been one of the more boring rounds in the history of the competition. Some great quality football by the winning sides but no real competitive games. Between that and the conferences, which are looking more and more ridiculous with every game played and seriously devaluing the competition, it almost felt like an exhibition round.
 
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