News Age interview with Matt Rendell

[jackcass]

I’m talking about job positions that are identified as Aboriginal only. It’s working well in government. Given the talent available, why not have Aboriginal identified list spots?

I’m not aware of any government jobs that are aboriginal specific/only. Where/what are they?

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

Football clubs will be a lot easier to run when time travel gets incorporated into drafting...

The future is the hardest thing to predict.

 

[Quicky]

I’m not aware of any government jobs that are aboriginal specific/only. Where/what are they?

It's pretty common in government. They'll be advertised as indigenous specified or identified positions. It's an attempt to provide opportunities and diversity in the workforce. While not specified positions there are similar goals for employing people with disabilities, woman in leadership roles, people of different cultural backgrounds. It's partly aimed at addressing unconcious bias in recruitment processes. My experience is that diversity is a good thing in a workplace and makes it stronger. I'm proud our government agencies aspire to it.

 

[TradeDraft]

It's pretty common in government. They'll be advertised as indigenous specified or identified positions. It's an attempt to provide opportunities and diversity in the workforce. While not specified positions there are similar goals for employing people with disabilities, woman in leadership roles, people of different cultural backgrounds. It's partly aimed at undressing unconcious bias in recruitment processes. My experience is that diversity is a good thing in a workplace and makes it stronger. I'm proud our government agencies aspire to it.

So it be bit like a Token Job?

 

[35Daicos]

We currently have more Americans on our list that WE drafted/rookied than Indigenous players.

In other words, we don’t have a single indigenous player on our list that we picked up in a draft or placed on a rookie list.

We certainly don't have a proud history in this area, with our first indigenous senior player (Wally Lovett) not debuting until 1982, and only sixteen players from 1897 onwards. Five of the sixteen started their career with another club. Incidentally, we did try to recruit Doug Nicholls back in the day. It would have been when he was with Northcote, before he joined Fitzroy. Perhaps things may have turned out differently for us if we'd landed him back then! Michael Long going to Essendon seems to have inspired Kevin Sheedy to recruit more aboriginal players, so much so that he now seems to want to take credit for "inventing" the idea!!

Overall, I just don't think it necessary (or practical) that clubs be forced to have a set number of indigenous players in their team/on their list. The NGA system gives those players (along with multicultural types) a reasonable advantage when it comes to being recruited. The better ones will be snapped up anyway, while the less highly rated prospects can simply be taken as Cat. B Rookies, if not picked up in the draft, so it's very likely some of them get a list spot they may not otherwise have simply because of their race.

 

[Quicky]

So it be bit like a Token Job?

No mate they're not token jobs at all. They have the same roles and responsibilities as anyone else in same role.

 

[AndrewShawble]

We certainly don't have a proud history in this area, with our first indigenous senior player (Wally Lovett) not debuting until 1982, and only sixteen players from 1897 onwards. Five of the sixteen started their career with another club. Incidentally, we did try to recruit Doug Nicholls back in the day. It would have been when he was with Northcote, before he joined Fitzroy. Perhaps things may have turned out differently for us if we'd landed him back then! Michael Long going to Essendon seems to have inspired Kevin Sheedy to recruit more aboriginal players, so much so that he now seems to want to take credit for "inventing" the idea!!

Overall, I just don't think it necessary (or practical) that clubs be forced to have a set number of indigenous players in their team/on their list. The NGA system gives those players (along with multicultural types) a reasonable advantage when it comes to being recruited. The better ones will be snapped up anyway, while the less highly rated prospects can simply be taken as Cat. B Rookies, if not picked up in the draft, so it's very likely some of them get a list spot they may not otherwise have simply because of their race.

Interesting points and food for thought for sure.

There seems to be some clubs making a concerted effort in drafting and nurturing Indigenous players, my personal opinion is that if a club isn't doing so they are doing a disservice to themselves and the community.

Last years premiers had 5 on their list, 2 as rookies nobody wanted. The 2018 premiers have 7 this year (bit different being WA based).

We can be better.

 

[jmac70]

I’m not aware of any government jobs that are aboriginal specific/only. Where/what are they?

There are many.

 

[sr36]

We currently have more Americans on our list that WE drafted/rookied than Indigenous players.

In other words, we don’t have a single indigenous player on our list that we picked up in a draft or placed on a rookie list.

The same goes for Centre half forwards. And unlike indigenous players, centre half forwards are struggling to find a place in the modern game. Perhaps that's where AFL quotas should come in to play.

 

[AndrewShawble]

The same goes for Centre half forwards. And unlike indigenous players, centre half forwards are struggling to find a place in the modern game. Perhaps that's where AFL quotas should come in to play.

I did say that, aboriginal talent and KPF prospects

 

[35Daicos]

Interesting points and food for thought for sure.

There seems to be some clubs making a concerted effort in drafting and nurturing Indigenous players, my personal opinion is that if a club isn't doing so they are doing a disservice to themselves and the community.

Last years premiers had 5 on their list, 2 as rookies nobody wanted. The 2018 premiers have 7 this year (bit different being WA based).

We can be better.

Richmond ended up with 6 on their list last year (3 on the Rookie List), with 4 in the Premiership team, and still have 6, while West Coast have 9 in 2020 (3 on the Rookie List).

This shows the 2020 numbers. It includes Brad Lynch at the Western Bulldogs, as the AFL Season Guide does list him as being indigenous, though I think there is a lot of doubt about that, and have asked if they could check and see whether he belongs on that list.

 

[sr36]

It's pretty common in government. They'll be advertised as indigenous specified or identified positions. It's an attempt to provide opportunities and diversity in the workforce. While not specified positions there are similar goals for employing people with disabilities, woman in leadership roles, people of different cultural backgrounds. It's partly aimed at addressing unconcious bias in recruitment processes. My experience is that diversity is a good thing in a workplace and makes it stronger. I'm proud our government agencies aspire to it.

Yep. Some sectors of the economy would benefit from some sort of quota system - I just think that it's completely unnecessary in the AFL. Quotas for a group that is already overrepresented in terms of percentage of the population seems like a bizarre concept to me.

 

[Markfs]

The future is the hardest thing to predict.

that is why we need to introduce time travel into the recruiting. i think it would improve our drafting tenfold. I know it has it's drawbacks. Recruiting staff are going to have to explain to their families that they will be in other time dimensions when the kids have school presentations etc, but I think it will be worth the trouble.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Yep. Some sectors of the economy would benefit from some sort of quota system - I just think that it's completely unnecessary in the AFL. Quotas for a group that is already overrepresented in terms of percentage of the population seems like a bizarre concept to me.

Yeah potentially, but there is an interesting case for and against.

 

[jmac70]

Yep. Some sectors of the economy would benefit from some sort of quota system - I just think that it's completely unnecessary in the AFL. Quotas for a group that is already overrepresented in terms of percentage of the population seems like a bizarre concept to me.

Don’t forget we are also talking about a group over represented in being disadvantaged.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Don’t forget we are also talking about a group over represented in being disadvantaged.

100% - people think the stats show they are already fairly represented based on population and draft % likelihood.

Imagine the % of Indigenous players on AFL lists if they had the same pathways and advantages!

 

[sr36]

Don’t forget we are also talking about a group over represented in being disadvantaged.

In other sectors of the economy - definitely. In terms of getting on an AFL list - nah.

 

[jmac70]

In other sectors of the economy - definitely. In terms of getting on an AFL list - nah.

I meant disadvantaged in terms of their living standards.

 

[jmac70]

Imagine 5 extra Aboriginal list spots per club. Clubs could draft directly from their NGA zone, or pick up an Aboriginal identified player from other sources.

 

[Markfs]

The coasters and the dockers have more indigenous players because there are more indigenous footballers in WA and also these two clubs know that the 18 year old boys that they are recruiting can live at home. Quite a lot of them come down to Perth from country areas and live with their extended family and others. That is very difficult to replicate in Melbourne. Some form of positive discrimination cant address that. Tim Kelly is a prime example of the fears that melbourne clubs have, although he had unfortunate problems with his kids' health.

That being said, I think that there is a lack of risk taking in the Pie recruiting, and it's most evident with the indigenous players but I think it's a wider problem with the club's recruiting.

 

[AndrewShawble]

The coasters and the dockers have more indigenous players because there are more indigenous footballers in WA and also these two clubs know that the 18 year old boys that they are recruiting can live at home. Quite a lot of them come down to Perth from country areas and live with their extended family and others. That is very difficult to replicate in Melbourne. Some form of positive discrimination cant address that. Tim Kelly is a prime example of the fears that melbourne clubs have, although he had unfortunate problems with his kids' health.

That being said, I think that there is a lack of risk taking in the Pie recruiting, and it's most evident with the indigenous players but I think it's although a wider problem with the club's recruiting.

100% to all of the above

Problem is, people are scared to talk about these types of things. If you want to put it on the agenda you get accused of reverse racism.

Surely on this forum we all want the same thing, Collingwood to improve.

 

[Quicky]

Yep. Some sectors of the economy would benefit from some sort of quota system - I just think that it's completely unnecessary in the AFL. Quotas for a group that is already overrepresented in terms of percentage of the population seems like a bizarre concept to me.

My comment wasn't in the context of the AFL. The AFL is streets ahead in terms of indigenous representation when compared to most areas of employment.

 

[sr36]

That being said, I think that there is a lack of risk taking in the Pie recruiting, and it's most evident with the indigenous players but I think it's although a wider problem with the club's recruiting.

Pick 6 on a kid wirh a heart condition that irher teams were passing on.
Second rounder on a kid with severe hearing issues.
Kirby who couldn't run the length of the goal square.
Abott from a notorious criminal family and with mental health concerns.
Dayne Beams with mental health concerns.

We take our share of risks.

 

[TradeDraft]

Pick 6 on a kid wirh a heart condition that irher teams were passing on.
Second rounder on a kid with severe hearing issues.
Kirby who couldn't run the length of the goal square.
Abott from a notorious criminal family and with mental health concerns.
Dayne Beams with mental health concerns.

We take our share of risks.

1 Came Off Big Time and Others where Fails

 

[35Daicos]

Pick 6 on a kid wirh a heart condition that irher teams were passing on.
Second rounder on a kid with severe hearing issues.
Kirby who couldn't run the length of the goal square.
Abott from a notorious criminal family and with mental health concerns.
Dayne Beams with mental health concerns.

We take our share of risks.

Wells and Krakouer a couple more good examples (who just happen to be indigenous) from the last ten years.