News Age interview with Matt Rendell

[sr36]

1 Came Off Big Time and Others where Fails

Kirby hurts. What a freak talent.

 

[Anzacday]

No such thing as reverse racism.
It’s simply called racism.

 

[magpies42]

Just posted this article on Nicks Bulletin Board as well.

Fascinating comments by Rendell.

Describes the 2020 list as a top 4 list, and describes us as being "all over the place" in the lead up to the 2017 club review undertaken by Peter Murphy.

Certainly the closest admission you will find from an insider that we messed up by drafting Scharenberg and Freeman. I still believe we were super keen on Bontempelli but the Dogs took him at #4 before we had the chance to pounce.

The 2014 draft was a much improved one with the additions of De Goey, Moore and Maynard.

Don’t know about that, couldn’t have had worse luck with two first round picks really. Freeman struck me as Dangerfield that could kick...

 

[jmac70]

No such thing as reverse racism.
It’s simply called racism.

What do you mean?

 

[Kappa]

What do you mean?

Being racist against white people is still racism, is it not?

 

[ottoman]

Being racist against white people is still racism, is it not?

No. It's not.
Haven't you read the memo?
Any sort of discrimination can only be claimed by minority groups.
Whites are not a minority and therefore, ipso facto nothing against them can be racism.
Whites are the power race. It doesn't matter that millions of whites are living in poverty. Their poverty is less important than other races poverty.
The fact that some whites hold the reins of power means that all whites are privileged.
Surely you know this.

 

[Markfs]

Pick 6 on a kid wirh a heart condition that irher teams were passing on.
Second rounder on a kid with severe hearing issues.
Kirby who couldn't run the length of the goal square.
Abott from a notorious criminal family and with mental health concerns.
Dayne Beams with mental health concerns.

We take our share of risks.

You make a good point about drafting players with medical issues. but i think you know that I was talking more about the Kirbys and the Abbotts, and I was also talking about recruiting "safe" players like ben crocker.

I would add a name like Jonathon Marsh to support your case, and i would argue that he was more of a speculative player. Although I was talking more about gifted footballers with dodgey backgrounds rather than gifted athletes with skill issues

I would also say that derek hine does have a particular speculative bent in him..... he does seem to like to draft players who were injured during the draft year. He does seem to like to take that risk.

However, derek doesn't seem to want to take a risk on an indigenous kid with attitude issues or a dodgey family background. If I had to nail this issue down I would say that we put too much emphasis on the draftee coming from a "good family". I think it's a lot easier if a player has the support of a good family but I dont think it be more important than actuall footy talent


t

 

[jmac70]

Being racist against white people is still racism, is it not?

I haven’t seen any racist posts against white or black people in this thread.
I’m confused.

 

[sr36]

You make a good point about drafting players with medical issues. but i think you know that I was talking more about the Kirbys and the Abbotts, and I was also talking about recruiting "safe" players like ben crocker.

I would add a name like Jonathon Marsh to support your case, and i would argue that he was more of a speculative player. Although I was talking more about gifted footballers with dodgey backgrounds rather than gifted athletes with skill issues

I would also say that derek hine does have a particular speculative bent in him..... he does seem to like to draft players who were injured during the draft year. He does seem to like to take that risk.

However, derek doesn't seem to want to take a risk on an indigenous kid with attitude issues or a dodgey family background. If I had to nail this issue down I would say that we put too much emphasis on the draftee coming from a "good family". I think it's a lot easier if a player has the support of a good family but I dont think it be more important than actuall footy talent

I suspect it's related to perceptions of maturity. I think maturity is weighted more heavily in our criteria than some other clubs. I don't think the draft age works in favour of us drafting indigenous kids.

 

[jackcass]

It's pretty common in government. They'll be advertised as indigenous specified or identified positions. It's an attempt to provide opportunities and diversity in the workforce. While not specified positions there are similar goals for employing people with disabilities, woman in leadership roles, people of different cultural backgrounds. It's partly aimed at addressing unconcious bias in recruitment processes. My experience is that diversity is a good thing in a workplace and makes it stronger. I'm proud our government agencies aspire to it.

I'm certainly not questioning the benefits of diversity but in my experience, it's common for Government departments to set quotas but in my experience they're rarely met. Even in jobs with very specific aboriginal engagement, they'll still employ the best person for the job irrespective of their aboriginality. That's a very Victorian government and Federal government view and it may play out differently in other jurisdictions, but it's not my experience.

 

[jackcass]

There are many.

Oh yeah..... nah!

 

[jackcass]

100% - people think the stats show they are already fairly represented based on population and draft % likelihood.

Imagine the % of Indigenous players on AFL lists if they had the same pathways and advantages!

A fairly healthy % do given not all live in isolated communities and quite a few get access to private boarding schools.

 

[Markfs]

I suspect it's related to perceptions of maturity. I think maturity is weighted more heavily in our criteria than some other clubs. I don't think the draft age works in favour of us drafting indigenous kids.

i think if they were recruiting 18 year olds on maturity then they'd be hard pressed to get anyone on the list....there's a view that derek has a blind spot with key position players... i think he might have a similar one with indigenous players but that's an opinion based on nothing more than who we recruit. I dont think Derek consciously excludes them

 

[jmac70]

Oh yeah..... nah!

Not sure what you mean.

 

[jackcass]

Not sure what you mean.

It's not my experience. I'm not aware of many aboriginal specific jobs in government departments and that's coming from a perspective of 27 years working within government departments State (Victoria) and Federal. In fact, I was a regional rep on an indigenous panel for the state gov and there was 1 actual indigenous person among the 20 odd panel members and this was an oft discussed topic. Government departments will always take who they see as the best person for the job. They certainly have quotas they'd like to fill but that's not the same as have jobs open only to aboriginals. Finding suitable candidates sadly more often than not precludes it.

 

[Quicky]

I'm certainly not questioning the benefits of diversity but in my experience, it's common for Government departments to set quotas but in my experience they're rarely met. Even in jobs with very specific aboriginal engagement, they'll still employ the best person for the job irrespective of their aboriginality. That's a very Victorian government and Federal government view and it may play out differently in other jurisdictions, but it's not my experience.

If the job position is "indigenous identified" it has to be filled by someone who is indigenous by heritage. They're very common in government. I see them advertised frequently.

 

[Horaceg]

Much better, I honestly felt confident going into this season, I said we would smash the Dogs and we did and I was more than ready for Richmond, maybe a shortened season is just what we need to snag a flag.

I would be very happy if we can win the flag this year but it will always have it's detractors. My view is that you can only beat what is put in front of you.

 

[Albert Parker]

Some observations and impressions from this Rendell interview (and related chat)

Recruiting staff
Interesting that Rendell has been let go. With Dom Milesi leaving to head up the Western Bulldogs recruiting, I suspect our senior recruitment stocks may be at their lowest point? Interesting problem with
- uncertainty around the draft this year;
- given we have Reef in our keeping near term; but
- also given there will likely be a lack of football around the country this year in which to call upon our recruiting teams for their expertise; and
- there is a strong suggestion that lists will be cut, meaning less need for lots of new players to come on to our list either

Perhaps a lack of recruitment team depth hurts us less in near term given the circumstances where our existing list is already strong and our top pick is likely already known too (assuming Reef occupies that slot). Interested in people's thoughts on this issue

History/Cripps
As for history, we wouldn't be the only club kicking ourselves re missing Cripps. I think our bias was speed at the time, acknowledging a weakness there, with Freeman and Marsh both being selected in the same draft. Maynard and Sier selections would both seem to acknowledge the Cripps error, but unfortunately Sier's attitude does not appear to have overcome his major weaknesses as a junior - his attitude and tank. At other times we've had a focus on delivery inside 50 (taking a punt on Wells) and getting beaten up in the clinches by WCE in 2018 (re-recruiting Beams).

CHF
The best insight I gleaned from a facebook fan update with Bucks today was on the topic of CHF. He thought Moore was capable of playing that role, but sees him as an AA quality CHB who's intercept marking is valuable as a means of turning defence into attack in any case. He also noted that key forwards, and specifically CHF's, are considered to be more a role of the past. I suppose he sees an attacking system as more important with our ball movement and having multiple dangerous scoring options - our current forward set up would seem to reflect this. My take is don't go expecting a 195-200cm hulking forward as a draft priority for the club in the near term.

Indigenous recruiting
Yes, we have been clearly more risk averse to drafting young aboriginal talent than other clubs. I think it is lower risk for WA clubs to do so but even then there are cases like Rioli, Ryan etc where there is higher than average management time required. Tim Kelly was an elite talent and a bit more mature before Geelong drafted him, but ultimately that yielded less than hoped. The lower the portion of aboriginal talent on your list, the harder it perhaps is to then bring new talent in because you may not have an adequate support system in place. It's not a racist view per se by Hine I don't think, but acknowledges the higher risk of bringing a young WA or NT talent to Victoria if they haven't been through a path of schooling at an elite Vic school (like Cyril) and become acclimatised to life in the bubble of Melbourne football. The AFL in general has done a great job of acknowledging the talent of indigenous athletes. Like many of you, it would be nice to take a chance on a Sydney Stack on the cheap, but they now have an indigenous academy at Punt Rd to facilitate this approach. Perhaps we end up replicating this too? It wouldn;t be the first time we replicate a Richmond success story.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Some observations and impressions from this Rendell interview (and related chat)

Recruiting staff
Interesting that Rendell has been let go. With Dom Milesi leaving to head up the Western Bulldogs recruiting, I suspect our senior recruitment stocks may be at their lowest point? Interesting problem with
- uncertainty around the draft this year;
- given we have Reef in our keeping near term; but
- also given there will likely be a lack of football around the country this year in which to call upon our recruiting teams for their expertise; and
- there is a strong suggestion that lists will be cut, meaning less need for lots of new players to come on to our list either

Perhaps a lack of recruitment team depth hurts us less in near term given the circumstances where our existing list is already strong and our top pick is likely already known too (assuming Reef occupies that slot). Interested in people's thoughts on this issue

History/Cripps
As for history, we wouldn't be the only club kicking ourselves re missing Cripps. I think our bias was speed at the time, acknowledging a weakness there, with Freeman and Marsh both being selected in the same draft. Maynard and Sier selections would both seem to acknowledge the Cripps error, but unfortunately Sier's attitude does not appear to have overcome his major weaknesses as a junior - his attitude and tank. At other times we've had a focus on delivery inside 50 (taking a punt on Wells) and getting beaten up in the clinches by WCE in 2018 (re-recruiting Beams).

CHF
The best insight I gleaned from a facebook fan update with Bucks today was on the topic of CHF. He thought Moore was capable of playing that role, but sees him as an AA quality CHB who's intercept marking is valuable as a means of turning defence into attack in any case. He also noted that key forwards, and specifically CHF's, are considered to be more a role of the past. I suppose he sees an attacking system as more important with our ball movement and having multiple dangerous scoring options - our current forward set up would seem to reflect this. My take is don't go expecting a 195-200cm hulking forward as a draft priority for the club in the near term.

Indigenous recruiting
Yes, we have been clearly more risk averse to drafting young aboriginal talent than other clubs. I think it is lower risk for WA clubs to do so but even then there are cases like Rioli, Ryan etc where there is higher than average management time required. Tim Kelly was an elite talent and a bit more mature before Geelong drafted him, but ultimately that yielded less than hoped. The lower the portion of aboriginal talent on your list, the harder it perhaps is to then bring new talent in because you may not have an adequate support system in place. It's not a racist view per se by Hine I don't think, but acknowledges the higher risk of bringing a young WA or NT talent to Victoria if they haven't been through a path of schooling at an elite Vic school (like Cyril) and become acclimatised to life in the bubble of Melbourne football. The AFL in general has done a great job of acknowledging the talent of indigenous athletes. Like many of you, it would be nice to take a chance on a Sydney Stack on the cheap, but they now have an indigenous academy at Punt Rd to facilitate this approach. Perhaps we end up replicating this too? It wouldn;t be the first time we replicate a Richmond success story.

All round great summary/read - thanks for taking the time

 

[TradeDraft]

No such thing as reverse racism.
It’s simply called racism.

So people can be Racists to White's then

 

[TradeDraft]

Kirby hurts. What a freak talent.

Find it Ironic we took Stephenson even with his Heart Issues then we had someone else Retire from a Heart Issue

 

[TradeDraft]

Well Reef McGinnis has Aboriginal Background

 

[manicpie]

I would be very happy if we can win the flag this year but it will always have it's detractors. My view is that you can only beat what is put in front of you.

I'll take it with or without an asterix

 

[AndrewShawble]

I'll take it with or without an asterix

Yep, as long as they are handing the cup out, its there to be won.

 

[Markfs]

Indigenous recruiting
Yes, we have been clearly more risk averse to drafting young aboriginal talent than other clubs. I think it is lower risk for WA clubs to do so but even then there are cases like Rioli, Ryan etc where there is higher than average management time required. Tim Kelly was an elite talent and a bit more mature before Geelong drafted him, but ultimately that yielded less than hoped. The lower the portion of aboriginal talent on your list, the harder it perhaps is to then bring new talent in because you may not have an adequate support system in place. It's not a racist view per se by Hine I don't think, but acknowledges the higher risk of bringing a young WA or NT talent to Victoria if they haven't been through a path of schooling at an elite Vic school (like Cyril) and become acclimatised to life in the bubble of Melbourne football. The AFL in general has done a great job of acknowledging the talent of indigenous athletes. Like many of you, it would be nice to take a chance on a Sydney Stack on the cheap, but they now have an indigenous academy at Punt Rd to facilitate this approach. Perhaps we end up replicating this too? It wouldn;t be the first time we replicate a Richmond success story.

I'm not sure if I agree with your "theory" that the risk gets higher in recruiting indigenous players, when the club has less indigenous players on the list. Hawthorn had nil indigenous players on their list about a decade or so ago. The Pies had a beautiful opportunity to recruit younger indigenous players when Wells and Varcoe were playing more games. In fact, I thought that was one of the main reasons that we recruited Wells, apart from his foot skills. By next year, both of them would have gone and by your theory, the risk would have skyrocketed. I dont see any evidence of a plan to bring more into the team.