Mega Thread All things Tony Abbott

[madmug]

You're right, it is moronic.

Nanny State is a term with a fairly unambiguous definition which I linked on the last page. There's not much I can do if some spuds are going to keep being pig-headed about it.

The term 'nanny state' may be unambiguous but the fact is both LNP & the ALP have policies & laws which one could conclude as restricting choice. Whether that is good of bad depends on the effects of the law & your own personal point of view.
Gun laws are about the better protection of the public as a whole. The evidence is the difference in the death rate between Australia & the USA.
My favorite is the battle between the needs to have child immunisation versus those who rail against it. Immunisation has a slight risk to the individual, but the risk to the community as a whole is much greater if children aren't protected.
The Alco pops laws were designed to stop the spread of cheap sweet alcohol, it clearly failed.
Cigarette packaging is another battle ground. Im not so sure the plain packaging is working but I'd like to see them taxed out of existence. The are a massive health hazard & cost.
So you need to look at it on a law by law basis & decide if the majority are better for it. Surely that is the best test?

 

[JeffDunne]

The only test for limiting personal freedoms should be the scale of the impact on others if it's not limited.

The "it costs everyone through increased taxation" impact is the most spurious of arguments too.

 

[GuruJane]

may be not the type of "good women" relationships you are referring to but according to a recent study one particular women is very important and will determine your path in life:

“Men who had ‘warm’ childhood relationships with their mothers took home $87,000 more per year than men whose mothers were uncaring. Men who had poor childhood relationships with their mothers were much more likely to develop dementia when old. Late in their professional lives, the men’s boyhood relationships with their mothers — but not their fathers — were associated with effectiveness at work. On the other hand, warm childhood relations with fathers correlated with lower rates of adult anxiety, greater enjoyment on vacations, and increased ‘life satisfaction’ at age 75 — whereas the warmth of childhood relationships with mothers had no significant bearing on life satisfaction at 75.”

I keep flip flopping on the PPL issue as I don't like middle class welfare but may be it is not so silly.

Generally find that men who had good women as mothers invariably choose a good woman to partner with.

 

[clogged]

Aw shucks short pants brigade seems to have run out of steam.
Seems to be a lot of size phobia around though. Classic Freudian response to alpha male authority figure. No good women in your lives boyz??

This is your usual go to when you run out of anything to say.

 

[Number37]

You're right, it is moronic.

Nanny State is a term with a fairly unambiguous definition which I linked on the last page. There's not much I can do if some spuds are going to keep being pig-headed about it.

Oh pokerspiv, really?
You were the one that grand standed about the ALP bringing in 'nanny state' policies. You are the one that refuses to accept that your beloved LNP are just as bad as the other mob at promoting 'nanny state' policies. Many examples have been adduced for your benefit.

Heres another: Remember the tanty that Abbott and Murdoch's crew threw about 'freedom of speech'?
Tell us, who just enacted legislation that will send a journalist to jail for writing about intelligence operations?
FYI, the law has ALWAYS been about balancing the public interest versus the right of government to conduct covert operations.
Now there is no balance. The government can now do whatever it likes, cloak it in 'operational matters' and stop anyone from writing about it. Even if they do the most dastardly things.
What does that have to do with nanny state?
The government has taken away everyone's right to know what they are up to. It is an important right because it helps us form views on how we vote.
Representative democracy is where the government answers to the people. Our constitution says we are a representative democracy.
Contrary to your belief, limiting one's intake of sweetened alcohol is far less nanny state than suppressing the right of the population to know what the government is up to.

 

[RUNVS]

Generally find that men who had good women as mothers invariably choose a good woman to partner with.

and what is your definition of "a good woman"? Is it the same as Abbott's? A virgin girl who will not give it up until after she is married and will spend days cleaning her husbands clothes, cleaning the house, cooking his meals and overseeing the family budget?

 

[Gough]

This is your usual go to when you run out of anything to say.

I'd take issue with the whole alpha male bit too, Abbott's just a hand maiden to vested interests and when he's no longer of use to them they'll jettison him, the Dirty Digger is already talking up Julie Bishop.

 

[GuruJane]

I'd take issue with the whole alpha male bit too, Abbott's just a hand maiden to vested interests and when he's no longer of use to them they'll jettison him, the Dirty Digger is already talking up Julie Bishop.

Riddle me this then - why do so many male posters here have an obsession with Abbott's genitals/speedos and sexual prowess starting with Blackcat? I don't think gay men do?

 

[RUNVS]

Riddle me this then - why do so many male posters here have an obsession with Abbott's genitals/speedos and sexual prowess starting with Blackcat? I don't think gay men do?

You're the one that keeps bringing it up like it is a good thing. The rest of us find it embarrassing and very off putting. It is like Abbott does not realise just how unattractive he is.

 

[Gough]

Riddle me this then - why do so many male posters here have an obsession with Abbott's genitals/speedos and sexual prowess starting with Blackcat? I don't think gay men do?

Same reason they took interest in Howard's eyebrows or Gillard's voice or big arse, it's caricature.

 

[clogged]

I'd take issue with the whole alpha male bit too, Abbott's just a hand maiden to vested interests and when he's no longer of use to them they'll jettison him, the Dirty Digger is already talking up Julie Bishop.

Problem is she's forgetting the last male PM she was in thrall to was noted for his unimpressive appendage - and yet was still a hit with the ladies.

I'll forgive Jane for forgetting though, she is old.

 

[Power Raid]

and what is your definition of "a good woman"? Is it the same as Abbott's? A virgin girl who will not give it up until after she is married and will spend days cleaning her husbands clothes, cleaning the house, cooking his meals and overseeing the family budget?

is that your definition of a good women? how was your relationship with your mum?

 

[GuruJane]

Same reason they took interest in Howard's eyebrows or Gillard's voice or big arse, it's caricature.

But the speedos caricature is pure Freud too.
It's competitive locker-room adolescent male behaviour transferred to Australian politics board and was started in this thread by Black Cat.

 

[madmug]

may be not the type of "good women" relationships you are referring to but according to a recent study one particular women is very important and will determine your path in life:

“Men who had ‘warm’ childhood relationships with their mothers took home $87,000 more per year than men whose mothers were uncaring. Men who had poor childhood relationships with their mothers were much more likely to develop dementia when old. Late in their professional lives, the men’s boyhood relationships with their mothers — but not their fathers — were associated with effectiveness at work. On the other hand, warm childhood relations with fathers correlated with lower rates of adult anxiety, greater enjoyment on vacations, and increased ‘life satisfaction’ at age 75 — whereas the warmth of childhood relationships with mothers had no significant bearing on life satisfaction at 75.”

I keep flip flopping on the PPL issue as I don't like middle class welfare but may be it is not so silly.

The thing with spending tax payers $ is that we want it to be spent to best effect. Abbotts personal PPL scheme is not best effect unless it becomes strongly means tested. IMO the best family support would be childcare support so the parent can get back to the workplace, at least part time.
Again IMO, the real damage to children is done in families with drug & alcohol problems.

 

[RUNVS]

is that your definition of a good women? how was your relationship with your mum?

What? Did you not even read what I was saying? I was pointing out the things that "Abbott" seems to think good women should do and be like.

 

[Gough]

But the speedos caricature is pure Freud too.
It's competitive locker-room adolescent male behaviour transferred to Australian politics board and was started in this thread by Black Cat.

You're either reading too much into this or are desperately trying to conflate an issue in order to avoid an attempt to defend the PM and his policies. Perhaps you could explain a Jungian's response to this issue? Seeing as you're trying to psychoanalyse anyone who takes issue with the PM, and not everyone believes in Sigmund.

 

[Power Raid]

What? Did you not even read what I was saying? I was pointing out the things that "Abbott" seems to think good women should do and be like.

so what is your definition? and how was your relationship with your mum?

 

[Power Raid]

The thing with spending tax payers $ is that we want it to be spent to best effect. Abbotts personal PPL scheme is not best effect unless it becomes strongly means tested. IMO the best family support would be childcare support so the parent can get back to the workplace, at least part time.
Again IMO, the real damage to children is done in families with drug & alcohol problems.

yep, the sudy also highlighted the biggest destructive element was alcohol

"the most significant finding of all is that “Alcoholism is a disorder of great destructive power.” In fact, alcoholism is the single strongest cause of divorce between the Grant Study men and their wives. Alcoholism was also found to be strongly coupled with neurosis and depression (which most often follows alcohol abuse, rather than preceding it). Together with cigarette smoking, alcoholism proves to be the #1 greatest cause of morbidity and death. And above a certain level, intelligence doesn’t prevent the damage."



but that doesn't change the biggest positive element being positive relationships with mums.

I too believe affordable childcare is important and lean in that direction. I would suggest offering 20 hours per week (flexible times) to all parents (no means test) for day care for $100pa. but this does not address the "mum" issue.

after reading the studies the importance of mum's being mums can't be overlooked. The question of whether PPL or another policy is most appropriate is really the debate. As I have mentioned I don't like middle class welfare but may be I need to look at this from the child's perspective (like education) rather than the parents. In the mean time, I will continue to flip flop on this policy!

 

[GuruJane]

so what is your definition? and how was your relationship with your mum?

And who did the ironing in the household when RUNVS was growing up and who does it now?

 

[RUNVS]

so what is your definition? and how was your relationship with your mum?

There is no such thing as the perfect or ideal woman, just like there is no such thing as the perfect and ideal anything. As long as a person (male or female) is generally speaking a good person who cares for others while at the same time being confident enough to go for what they truly want out of life then I would say that person is a good person to be with.

 

[RUNVS]

And who did the ironing in the household when RUNVS was growing up and who does it now?

In my house we did not even own an iron. My family had one before I was born but never one in my lifetime.

 

[GuruJane]

Did your family wear unironed clothes then? Or were they sent out to the laundry?

 

[RUNVS]

Did your family wear unironed clothes then? Or were they sent out to the laundry?

Unironed. We stuck them on the clothes line and let them dry naturally.

 

[Borry]

Noticed there will be an increased police presence at NYE celebrations in both Perth and Sydney, and I suspect Brisbane and Melbourne too due to potential terrorism threats brought about by the government raising the terrorism alert level. Whether your head is in the sand of not it is quite clear it is an example of the government initiating a nanny state mentality.

The nanny state Sydney CBD curfews who did that, hint it wasn't an ALP government.

 

[GuruJane]

And no wrinkles?