List Mgmt. All Trades and Draft Part 2- Draft edition

[MadMundy]

Apologies if I'm intruding at all, but Geelong being stingy bastards about this whole situation and not looking out for Kelly's needs is just piss poor and unprofessional. I already hate the Cats with a passion and this just makes me hate em more. I feel that us Freo fans know we aren't getting Kelly, we'd rather see him just get home. I did think Peter Bell's comments yesterday were quite good in saying we as a club are aware of the fact that Tim wants to join you and because of that we're keeping our distance and letting you and Geelong talk things over, saying the only thing that would get us involved is if in the last hour you two can't work out a trade (which is highly unlikely).

While you're at it can you maybe try shafting Geelong a bit? Thanks

 

[Milenko]

I'm now at the point where I want us to get Kelly and Geelong to get nothing, all because of their obscene public belligerence:
- trying to foist Kelly onto a secondary club (Freo) he has no interest in joining, when there are no AFL trade precedents for this type of machiavellian behaviour
- saying they don't want to make a rival club stronger, when there are no AFL trade precedents for clubs taking this stance in public
- Scott & Wells making grandiose public statements about their excessive demands
- completely ignoring the fact that they have been massive net beneficiaries from trade movements in recent years (Danger, Ablett, Dalhaus, Rohan, etc etc) and typically paying unders in those instances
- pretending they have leverage (they don't this year, they did last year)
- large swathes of their supporters saying they 'took a chance on Kelly when no one else would', like he was some diamond plucked from the rough
- tipping off the media prior to the Geelong B&F and putting out salty public statements

 

[PremiershipNo4]

This simply doesn't make sense.

Please put a value on a flag and tell me that 14+18+24 is paying too much for a premiership.

Tim Kelly is a known quantity. He will be one of our best players for the next 5 years. Addition of Tim Kelly would mean our mid field is extremely damaging and has added depth.

Let's not die on a hill squabbling over draft pics when our window is wide open and we are 2nd favourites for next years flag.

If we have to pay overs, pay it.

There is no guarantee that drafting Kelly will bring a premiership, let's be honest good players get injured all the time in fact shit just happens, in the last 2 years we've had Rioli, Gaff, Shepherd, and Nic Nat all miss out on finals campaigns for one reason or another that's a fair proportion of our best 22.
My point is there anything could happen to Tim Kelly, could win a Brownlow could get hit by a bus. Giving up too much is not business smart, that's the sort of thing a desperate Carlton or Freo might do, we are not desperate we are the mighty WC football club, if anyone is going to bend over it's Geelong.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Every other club is watching this trade very carefully and would be very concerned of a West Coast outfit that boasts Tim Kelly.

In addition to the AFL, I'm looking forward to a draw that sends us to GWS in the preseason, then in the regular season the usual trip to Tasmania, and the MCG for all the top teams in addition to playing all the cellar dwellers once next year vs the 8 game home game stretch leading into finals Richmond will no doubt receive.

 

[Keys]

Wells never actually said three first round picks for Kelly - he said he’s worth more than two first rounders and the media have taken that to mean an extra first rounder

If we were to offer this years and next years first plus our Sydney 2nd, or even our own 2nd, that’s more than two first rounders

 

[TOA.]

Hey boys, long time lurker but now arrogantly posting for the first time.

my understanding of the drafts was that you can nominate your contract terms and salary in the pre season draft but not in the national draft - hence even Sam Walsh was originally tied to the normal rookie deal, and when Tom Boyd was lured to the dogs his first season was still on the rookie wage. I can’t see Tim allowing this to happen as he’s clearly looking to set his family up for life and there’s no way he lasts to us in the pre season draft. #FreeTim

You are right for rookies but mature age players can nominate their terms in the National Draft

Luke Ball is the last example of a mature age player to go through the national draft. He refused to meet with any other clubs than the Pies so he made it to 30.

 

[bUCKET__]

Cats fans: don't want ur stinkin' 2020 first rounder, Eagles are flag favourites

Also Cats fans: wouldn't touch any of ur stinkin' players, none of them are any good

 

[eagles rule]

This sounds about right and what a lot of posters have suggested..

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[EagleEgo]

Asking price for Tim Kelly in the first week will definitely be very high.
However, as it comes close to 16th October, the buying price will only be pick 24 (the original price of Kelly in 2017). Whether WCE is going to give Geelong a bit more as profit is up to WCE.
Pick 24 can get a good player from the draft and I dont see any reason why Geelong will say no in the last day of the Trade Period.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

There is no guarantee that drafting Kelly will bring a premiership, let's be honest good players get injured all the time in fact s**t just happens, in the last 2 years we've had Rioli, Gaff, Shepherd, and Nic Nat all miss out on finals campaigns for one reason or another that's a fair proportion of our best 22.
My point is there anything could happen to Tim Kelly, could win a Brownlow could get hit by a bus. Giving up too much is not business smart, that's the sort of thing a desperate Carlton or Freo might do, we are not desperate we are the mighty WC football club, if anyone is going to bend over it's Geelong.

It would not be giving up much though, it’s 3 lottery picks that possibly one of them could play 100 games and the other two will be list cloggers. The chance of two of those picks turning into solid long term AFL players is very remote.
We know what we get with Kelly and in our current situation he should be a priority which I understand he is.
If we were an average list then going with the draft might possibly make more sense.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Nice to see some sanity coming back into the coverage.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

It would not be giving up much though, it’s 3 lottery picks that possibly one of them could play 100 games and the other two will be list cloggers. The chance of two of those picks turning into solid long term AFL players is very remote.
We know what we get with Kelly and in our current situation he should be a priority which I understand he is.
If we were an average list then going with the draft might possibly make more sense.

I absolutely agree with the last point. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume we'll get more games played from three top 30 picks than Kelly, the quality of those games is unknowable.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

There is no need to offer Geelong more than this and next years first. No matter what we offer them they will drag this out till Friday and try and force him to Freo. If it gets to Friday and that hasn't or isn't in the process of working, and bear in mind that the AFL will be breathing down their necks to make sure the uncontracted player gets to where he wants to go, they will accept whatever the best offer to that point has been from us. Two first rounders will definately do it once they accept that their gambit to force Kelly to Freo has failed. No need to offer more. It's more critical to make sure that Kelly doesn't buckle under the pressure and agree to go to Freo.

 

[Monocle]

Early days in the trade period when posturing and opening bids always appear extreme and unrealistic.

That said if things don't come back to an acceptable level, it was reassuring to hear Vozzo say that, they have a point where they will deem it a price to high.

My take on the Kelly trade remains the same, happy to support it if its fair ( like 2 first rounders with a second coming back ) the Trelor / Shield trades are a good benchmark.

If we are unable to reach a mutually acceptable outcome with the Dick Eaters then we move on.

Plenty of good talent available with our current allotment of draft picks and a lot of it, just happens to be local WA talent.

If Kelly is a Docker next year then so be it.

I can't see the Purples being able to trade for Kelly without Hill leaving, which makes the swap of Kelly for Hill improve their side a little but not a huge amount.

More to the point, Geelong are made weaker with out Kelly and as a contender, that finished above us this year that will have an impact for them going into next year.

Of course it won't happen but Kelly walking into the draft and sliding to the Purples would also be acceptable as it would leave the Dick Eaters getting ...... diddly-squat for Kelly.

What it will do, is create a relationship with bad blood between WC and the Dick Eaters going forward and it will be interesting to watch how that plays out in the future.

Time will tell if this has a happy ending for the Kelly Family.

 

[FreeTK]

There is no guarantee that drafting Kelly will bring a premiership, let's be honest good players get injured all the time in fact s**t just happens, in the last 2 years we've had Rioli, Gaff, Shepherd, and Nic Nat all miss out on finals campaigns for one reason or another that's a fair proportion of our best 22.
My point is there anything could happen to Tim Kelly, could win a Brownlow could get hit by a bus. Giving up too much is not business smart, that's the sort of thing a desperate Carlton or Freo might do, we are not desperate we are the mighty WC football club, if anyone is going to bend over it's Geelong.

I probably shouldn't have flippantly said that this trade will deliver a premiership to us, obviously that isn't true. Football season is long and throws up many unexpected scenarios.

I don't agree with the original post I quoted that said we should go to the draft for WAFL talent instead of being open to 14+24+Next years first.

That is GFC opening offer, final trade will not be that high.

I am getting a sense that some of us are starting to lower our vision a bit and wanting to win trade week. I'd rather win 2020 & 2021.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Apologies if I'm intruding at all, but Geelong being stingy bastards about this whole situation and not looking out for Kelly's needs is just piss poor and unprofessional. I already hate the Cats with a passion and this just makes me hate em more. I feel that us Freo fans know we aren't getting Kelly, we'd rather see him just get home. I did think Peter Bell's comments yesterday were quite good in saying we as a club are aware of the fact that Tim wants to join you and because of that we're keeping our distance and letting you and Geelong talk things over, saying the only thing that would get us involved is if in the last hour you two can't work out a trade (which is highly unlikely).

While you're at it can you maybe try shafting Geelong a bit? Thanks

Agreed Geelong suck. Thought it was very good move by Bell. There's no benefit anyhow considering you guys can just nab him in the draft if he fell there. Do you think you would pick him even if he explicitly stated he didn't want to go to Freo?

Also do you think Peter Bell is using the same tactic with Angus Brayshaw as he did with Hogan. We're not interested at all then bang.

 

[WestCoast05]

Apologies if I'm intruding at all, but Geelong being stingy bastards about this whole situation and not looking out for Kelly's needs is just piss poor and unprofessional. I already hate the Cats with a passion and this just makes me hate em more. I feel that us Freo fans know we aren't getting Kelly, we'd rather see him just get home. I did think Peter Bell's comments yesterday were quite good in saying we as a club are aware of the fact that Tim wants to join you and because of that we're keeping our distance and letting you and Geelong talk things over, saying the only thing that would get us involved is if in the last hour you two can't work out a trade (which is highly unlikely).

I do feel though that Bell has helped to strengthen Geelong's position against us with some of his comments though.
I don't recall us doing this to Freo with McCarthy, Hogan, Wilson, Hamling, Hill or anyone else.
The apparent gentlemen's agreement between us is in both of our interests because you better believe the Vic based clubs will seek to shaft us with AFL house support as often as possible.

Also, I'm certain that Bell overall is good for Freo - but I feel he should show that FFC is proud enough that if a player doesn't want to go there then the club wouldn't want that player either.

 

[DanWCE]

Wells never actually said three first round picks for Kelly - he said he’s worth more than two first rounders and the media have taken that to mean an extra first rounder

If we were to offer this years and next years first plus our Sydney 2nd, or even our own 2nd, that’s more than two first rounders

Further to that, there is a distinction between where Geelong value TK and what they'll accept. To them he's a known quantity who may be worth more than 2 first round picks, but will they accept less than he's worth? Yes, they will.

I haven't heard Wells say he wants more than 2 firsts, just that he places TKs value there. Semantics I know but the ferals would burn the place to the ground if the Cats accepted less after such grandiose statements. He has an out clause.

I very much hope we don't pay more than 2 firsts and a 2nd round upgrade to Cats. Would feel like a win if we get him for less.

 

[WestCoast05]

Nice to see some sanity coming back into the coverage.

For all their fear and hypocrisy towards us, after they calm down and wipe the froth away from the corner of their mouth some of them still want to appear as credible, rational journalists.

 

[southcoast]

Got it solved everyone...............

AFL House changes the rules and gives every club another first round pick this year. This round will be at the end of the current first round.

Then all clubs will have a second first rounder to meet the demands of all clubs wanting first rounders in any trade deals.

Martin, Papely, Daniher, Kelly etc etc probably missed a few.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I do feel though that Bell has helped to strengthen Geelong's position against us with some of his comments though.
I don't recall us doing this to Freo with McCarthy, Hogan, Wilson, Hamling, Hill or anyone else.
The apparent gentlemen's agreement between us is in both of our interests because you better believe the Vic based clubs will seek to shaft us with AFL house support as often as possible.

Also, I'm certain that Bell overall is good for Freo - but I feel he should show that FFC is proud enough that if a player doesn't want to go there then the club wouldn't want that player either.

He did indeed. He made it quite clear that although Kelly had rejected them they were still interested in Kelly and wanted meetings with him to put their case. That did play into Geelongs hands. I don't think he did us any favours at all.

 

[Ok Boomer]

This sounds about right and what a lot of posters have suggested..

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We're screwed now.

 

[Art OF war]

This is massive. Public perception is starting to change. TK will be an eagle before this trade period is concluded.

 

[PremiershipNo4]

It would not be giving up much though, it’s 3 lottery picks that possibly one of them could play 100 games and the other two will be list cloggers. The chance of two of those picks turning into solid long term AFL players is very remote.
We know what we get with Kelly and in our current situation he should be a priority which I understand he is.
If we were an average list then going with the draft might possibly make more sense.

I can’t be bothered going through the entire list of WC 1rd draft picks, but I think you’ll find that we’d get considerably more than 100 games played by most, your argument is so flawed.
Masten, Shepherd, Shuey, Nic Nat, Hurn, Sheed, Duggan to name a few, I would have thought 200 games would be a lot closer to the Mark.
So if we give up 3 first round picks, we could conceivably give up 600 games of AFL compared to maybe 120 from Kelly.
Stuff that

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

AFL trade news 2019: Tim Kelly West Coast, Geelong, Craig Vozzo, Chris Judd West Coast deal, trade rumours, trade whispers

The Tim Kelly trade could be the biggest since Chris Judd’s move from Carlton to West Coast in 2007, according to <i>Herald</i> <i>Sun</i> journalist Jon Ralph.

www.foxsports.com.au

Finally a journo admits the obvious - you can't trade players to somewhere they don't want to go and the AFL will have massive problems dealing with the AFLPA on players rights agreements going forward if there start being examples of uncontracted players not getting where they want to go. The AFLPA will demand full free agency for all uncontracted players, which the AFL is desperate to avoid and needs the AFLPA's acquiescence to avoid in the future, if that starts hapenning. So the AFL will make sure that that doesn't happen.