Angus Graham

[_RT_]

He was disgraceful today

Wouldn't exactly say he was disgraceful, made some errors but these were more than made up for with some perfectly placed hitouts right on the chest of our midfielders with allowed us to get clear breaks from the centre. Along with Foley was our second highest clearance winner with 5. The thing that is killing him IMO is the lack of genuine support he gets in the ruck. Vickery doesn't provide enough of a contest which means Gus needs to spend, practically, the whole game on the ball. If we were going to make a change in the ruck I'd look at Vickery for Browne but then you need to see how these 2 are going to be able to perform up forward as we can't carry a second ruck on the bench.


Finally as TW said on SEN in the post match, he isn't going to be one of the stars of the comp but he is a player that will give everything he has and will run all day for the side. Anyone expecting him to be anything more than this is kidding themselves.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

He has woeful aerobic fitness , and unfortunately we currently rely heavily on his aerobic fitness , I think he can be a very good second Ruckman/ Forward , and will be significantly better when his workload reduces ?

 

[TheProwler]

Oops I've confused the troglodyte.... sorry

No it seems to be you missing it champ. WTF has that crap you posted got to do with your ruck argument? You are the stats champion not me???? Tell us all what that has to do with Graham?

Oh and from the posts after todays game you might want to delve into some new stats to justify him playing again next week

 

[Ty German]

Wouldn't exactly say he was disgraceful, made some errors but these were more than made up for with some perfectly placed hitouts right on the chest of our midfielders with allowed us to get clear breaks from the centre....

He was disgraceful again. The last quarter was typical Graham crap. How about the stupid free kick in the centre bounce when he ran under the ball (yet again) when we had the momentum. Or that sloppy kick to Nason in the open fowardline which any 12yr could hit. Or the slack marking of Goldstein that nearly costed us late in the game if not for the brilliance of Newman intercepting the ball on the wing. I won't even bother with the other 3 qrts of sh!t he dished up. The guy is a lazy dufus. I'm just waiting for your stats ....

 

[TigerTime88]

He was pathetic....

His tap work is shocking

He can't jump

His slow

His defensive efforts on a few occasions were the low light

 

[santa claws]

Triple M had him third worst on.

probably behind mcguane and rance.sheesh the three were shocking.

 

[Cathal Brugha]

After Browne being best for Coburg again today I think Gus will get a rest this week.

 

[RFC7]

His 24 and should be peaking this year, and so far his been terrible.

Still 17 games left this year but Browne won't have to do much to go past him, i reckon his gawn.

 

[partycorolla]

No it seems to be you missing it champ. WTF has that crap you posted got to do with your ruck argument? You are the stats champion not me???? Tell us all what that has to do with Graham?

Oh and from the posts after todays game you might want to delve into some new stats to justify him playing again next week

No, you're right on this... Vickery was clearly better than him today.... Oh hang on, no he was so ineffectual that he got subbed. Graham needs support, make no mistake about that and I support Browne getting game time, or Derickx. I haven't seen the stats yet but I would think he'd be pretty close to Goldstein in terms of hitouts and probably even on possies too. He took one good contested mark (did you see it on the tv?) so that should please the people who said he is incapable of taking one. I can't see who the obvious replacement is.... Browne is the only possible one and I think his output will be less than Gus at this point in time. Quite rightly too given his experience.

But it's ok.... I'm in too good a mood to argue with you tonight. I love the fact that we won despite playing pretty ordinary football at times. We can debate changes later. Go Tiges!!!

 

[partycorolla]

in the third when viks got subbed we lost all ascendancy in the middle

Lol at this!!! Tucks left arm was more effective than Vickery tonight. From the point he got subbed.... we went from losing to wining (can't remember the score when he got subbed so this could be crap).

Not sure I want Miller to do any more rucking.... Surely not why we got him

 

[_RT_]

He was disgraceful again. The last quarter was typical Graham crap. How about the stupid free kick in the centre bounce when he ran under the ball (yet again) when we had the momentum. Or that sloppy kick to Nason in the open fowardline which any 12yr could hit. Or the slack marking of Goldstein that nearly costed us late in the game if not for the brilliance of Newman intercepting the ball on the wing. I won't even bother with the other 3 qrts of sh!t he dished up. The guy is a lazy dufus. I'm just waiting for your stats ....

As I said he made some errors but you wear them from a developing ruckman, especially one that spends 90% of the game on the ball, because he gets bugger all help from Vickery and we seem to lose all momentum when Graham isn't on the ball.

But hey lets just focus on the negatives, lets not worry about the hitouts that he put on the chest or out in front of our midfielders to make a clean clearance from or 2 clearances he won in the last quarter that resulted in us kicking the goal a minute or 2 later. Like I've said all along there are signs there to suggest that Graham can become a servicable ruckman for us, but clearly that is not good enough for the majority here.

 

[santa claws]

browne or derickx could do no worse. give em a go. we are not in the business of trying to find a backup ruckman which is about all graham will amount to. we have a backup ruckman who imo did better than graham today in vickery and he didnt do a lot.

we are currently looking for a number one ruckman lets start by seeing if browne or derickx has better attributes than the doofus.
why did the club not target a young ruckman last seasons nd. they really should have taken a decent mature one much earlier as well.the management of ruck stocks has been poor imo.

ive always advocated you load up with needs on the assumption that any player you take may fail. ie kpfs take 5 or 6 over a two 3 yr period if 3 fail you still have 3 left.at richmond it seems we need two so we only take two.if both fail in two three yrs time you are back to square one.

 

[Bojangles17]

Lol at this!!! Tucks left arm was more effective than Vickery tonight. From the point he got subbed.... we went from losing to wining (can't remember the score when he got subbed so this could be crap).

Not sure I want Miller to do any more rucking.... Surely not why we got him

the one occasion miller rucked in the centre we cleared , cant remember if we scored a goal or point...was a pleasant change from gus's efforts

 

[partycorolla]

browne or derickx could do no worse. give em a go. we are not in the business of trying to find a backup ruckman which is about all graham will amount to. we have a backup ruckman who imo did better than graham today in vickery and he didnt do a lot.

we are currently looking for a number one ruckman lets start by seeing if browne or derickx has better attributes than the doofus.
why did the club not target a young ruckman last seasons nd. they really should have taken a decent mature one much earlier as well.the management of ruck stocks has been poor imo.

ive always advocated you load up with needs on the assumption that any player you take may fail. ie kpfs take 5 or 6 over a two 3 yr period if 3 fail you still have 3 left.at richmond it seems we need two so we only take two.if both fail in two three yrs time you are back to square one.

Santa, please take that back about Vickery today. His worst game for the club... definitely this year. If he was worse than Gus, then Gus would've subbed. However Santa, I'll watch the replay tonight and make a more informed assessment re Gus' game.

I think if you drop Gus based on today then Vickery is gone too. So do you bring in Browne then and Post or Derickx?

In terms of your recruiting of rucks I agree with you.... very light on in that area we have been. I am not against the idea of trading a ready made ruck in when we are good in a few years (ala Pies, Swans etc)

 

[dyl_tigerman]

angus graham amazes me... tbh i dont think that browne is going to be much better. the thing with gus is that we doesnt use his body... he looks like tarzan and plays like jane... huge rig he should be crashing and bashing blokes like sandilands, mumford etc do...
he was pretty poor tonight and i dont think that tyrone i much of a ruckmen... he needs to play forward... maybe give him a break and then play 2 rucks...
but it pays to have a good ruckmen and i heard that we are looking at that trangove from port... u have to pay to get good rucks... warnock at carlton is an example and mumford at sydney...

 

[santa claws]

Santa, please take that back about Vickery today. His worst game for the club... definitely this year. If he was worse than Gus, then Gus would've subbed. However Santa, I'll watch the replay tonight and make a more informed assessment re Gus' game.

I think if you drop Gus based on today then Vickery is gone too. So do you bring in Browne then and Post or Derickx?

In terms of your recruiting of rucks I agree with you.... very light on in that area we have been. I am not against the idea of trading a ready made ruck in when we are good in a few years (ala Pies, Swans etc)

know its totally irrelevant but even roos and healy were quite critical of him.
thought gus mcguane and rance diabolical in the first quarter in particular.
in fact for me outside of jack our best tall was grimes for such an undersized tall thought he did well especially some of his spoils.

we have plenty who do some decent things but in the main have little impact on games.
actually thought it an error riddled game with lots of fumbling poor decisions and poor skill execution.

 

[_RT_]

browne or derickx could do no worse. give em a go. we are not in the business of trying to find a backup ruckman which is about all graham will amount to. we have a backup ruckman who imo did better than graham today in vickery and he didnt do a lot.

we are currently looking for a number one ruckman lets start by seeing if browne or derickx has better attributes than the doofus.
why did the club not target a young ruckman last seasons nd. they really should have taken a decent mature one much earlier as well.the management of ruck stocks has been poor imo.

ive always advocated you load up with needs on the assumption that any player you take may fail. ie kpfs take 5 or 6 over a two 3 yr period if 3 fail you still have 3 left.at richmond it seems we need two so we only take two.if both fail in two three yrs time you are back to square one.

Thats a shocking Claws regarding Vickery, I don't recall a single clearance we got from 1 of his 4 hitouts, whereas Gus won 5 himself. In fact I think the only half decent piece of play Vickery was involved in was a contest on the wing where he got the ball in a pack and fed out a handball to a runner who delivered I50.

As I said earlier if I was going to make any changes I would be going with your suggestion from pre season, sending Gus to Coburg and getting him to dominate at that level because he is going sweet FA at senior level and would be using Browne or Derickx alongside Gus. At least then we're assured of having someone who can give him a decent chop break while also getting a good look at them for the future.

As for not taking a young ruckman in last years ND, I would have thought having 4 ruckmen under 24 would have been enough when it comes to development. Otherwise you're going to end up with a couple playing at VFL ressies level which is pretty pointless.

 

[zimma]

Not sure I want Miller to do any more rucking.... Surely not why we got him

Fairly sure Miller was only rucking as with Vickery off nobody else was able to. I was sitting near the bench at the point where Miller was rucking, Graham was off hobbling around + grimacing in pain with I think a hamstring cramp. He had all the physios and massage team working on him, second he was ableto move properly again, no more Miller rucking.

 

[partycorolla]

know its totally irrelevant but even roos and healy were quite critical of him.
thought gus mcguane and rance diabolical in the first quarter in particular.
in fact for me outside of jack our best tall was grimes for such an undersized tall thought he did well especially some of his spoils.

we have plenty who do some decent things but in the main have little impact on games.
actually thought it an error riddled game with lots of fumbling poor decisions and poor skill execution.

Yeah i agree their thoughts are a bit irrelevant on ruckman.... especially Gerard's.... Roos I have time for. Maybe he's too used to watching Jolly!!

I agree Santa, we were diabolical in the 1st quarter.... massive issue for us. Got to get off to a good start next week against Brissy...

I thought we won ugly and to be honest i'm sort of glad we did. Not every week of course but just to guts through one and come away with the points. North never really gave us license to run and carry in the way that the Pies did at times and the Saints.

 

[partycorolla]

Fairly sure Miller was only rucking as with Vickery off nobody else was able to. I was sitting near the bench at the point where Miller was rucking, Graham was off hobbling around + grimacing in pain with I think a hamstring cramp. He had all the physios and massage team working on him, second he was ableto move properly again, no more Miller rucking.

Yeah I was just highlighting our need for some back up for Gus. I actually think Miller did alright in the centre bounce contest he was in... I think Gus needs a bigger engine if he's going to be asked to do the sort of load they are giving him....

 

[santa claws]

Thats a shocking Claws regarding Vickery, I don't recall a single clearance we got from 1 of his 4 hitouts, whereas Gus won 5 himself. In fact I think the only half decent piece of play Vickery was involved in was a contest on the wing where he got the ball in a pack and fed out a handball to a runner who delivered I50.

As I said earlier if I was going to make any changes I would be going with your suggestion from pre season, sending Gus to Coburg and getting him to dominate at that level because he is going sweet FA at senior level and would be using Browne or Derickx alongside Gus. At least then we're assured of having someone who can give him a decent chop break while also getting a good look at them for the future.

As for not taking a young ruckman in last years ND, I would have thought having 4 ruckmen under 24 would have been enough when it comes to development. Otherwise you're going to end up with a couple playing at VFL ressies level which is pretty pointless.

okay okay vickery was ineffectual as well i did say he didnt do much.and yes graham did more still think that what little vickery did he did better than graham.

atm i reckon vickery is in the same boat as astbury not getting much of it and needs to go back to coburg to find some ball and confidence.

trouble is they wont drop both vickery and graham. one thing that stood out big time and has done all yr we need another tall player forward who can take a mark. we also need a tall player who can be used as an outlet when we come out of defense.

if it were up to me post and one of derickx or brown would come into the side for starters.

 

[CallMeAl]

C'mon craw, would you really play a bloke who is in his first year in the system and has only just played his first game of football in 5 (longer?) or so weeks (and did sweet FA)?

 

[HighFlyer]

okay okay vickery was ineffectual as well i did say he didnt do much.and yes graham did more still think that what little vickery did he did better than graham.

atm i reckon vickery is in the same boat as astbury not getting much of it and needs to go back to coburg to find some ball and confidence.

trouble is they wont drop both vickery and graham. one thing that stood out big time and has done all yr we need another tall player forward who can take a mark. we also need a tall player who can be used as an outlet when we come out of defense.

if it were !
up to me post and one of derickx or brown would come into the side for starters.

Extended family saw the cobug game on the weekend post was apparently The standout, perfect timing for Post to play like he did , miller and post could easily pinch hit in the ruck but provide more up forward than vickery on current form. Your right they won't drop both a the same time certainly not after a win.

Derickx's looked underdone. Browne played well but think Angus probably has at least another weeks grace up his sleeve. I hope post gets the call , our forward line has looked so much more structurally sound with just Millers big body in there, it would be a good time to be the third tall.

 

[Goldust]

C'mon craw, would you really play a bloke who is in his first year in the system and has only just played his first game of football in 5 (longer?) or so weeks (and did sweet FA)?

WAS thinking this very thought as I was reading the thread on Round 6 changes, where some posters call for as many as four and five changes every week regardless of whether we win, lose or draw!
Not lost on me that:
1. Coburg are winless!
2. According to reports, there were few who actually played well
3. You don't rarely have to tinker with a winning side!
I would suggest Jackson might be the only out and it's a lottery who comes in.

 

[santa claws]

C'mon craw, would you really play a bloke who is in his first year in the system and has only just played his first game of football in 5 (longer?) or so weeks (and did sweet FA)?

so play browne then and post not as if these two have done nothing the last few weeks.
im over players who are just plain poor win lose or draw.

ive had this debate many times. it is indeed preferable to have players going well at coburg and then being promoted. but its also been 5 games and we have players who have been poor what do you do keep on rewarding mediocrity and accepting sub standard games or promote a kid if only for experience sake.

i know what i prefer to see done atm and its not play blokes who have been around for ages who regularly produce ordinary performances.

let me ask if we had lost against nm and make no mistake we went within a whisker of losing it because of very ordinary performances from players who have been out of touch most of the yr would you be so averse to making changes.
its simple play poorly risk getting dropped.
its not as if we are winning games or playing higfh quality footy.did you actually watch the north game. there were several unacceptable performances and it near cost us a win. the standard was terrible.
surely we are aiming for better win lose or draw.