Society/Culture Anthony Mundine Makes Racist Comment About Jeff Horn

[Procrastinator35]

It depends on your definition of "deserve" but in a free market where there are 2 willing parties in every transaction, basic economics explains this perfectly.

Basic economics?

More to do with media sponsorship & advertising I'd have thought.

Anyone arguing that a person ought to be paid $1 million for 2 weeks work comprising 7 games of tennis, has got more than a few screws loose.

 

[ChampRevesby]

No one was forcibily excluded from anything. That is a false statement based on deliberate and uncorrected lies in the MSM coverage of the event.


You can't voluntarily exclude anyone else from anything. By definition. (Remember - words mean stuff.)

People can choose to voluntarily exclude themselves from things and that is part of their range of inalienable individual rights. Their reasons are their own and whatever judgements you make about them will be based on your lack of knowledge of what motivates them. If you think people shouldn't be able to exclude themselves from stuff voluntarily I'd be interested in your justification for forcibly denying them their individual human rights.


Why are you posting on a football website that defines people in terms of a chosen group identity then? Admittedly its concerning that you support those clowns but beyond that - are you serious?

There is a massive difference between voluntarily removing yourself from a public space and other asking you to remove themselves because you don't have the right skin colour. These are silly ideas, people should be judge on their ideas and actions not their skin colour (refer to Dr King). And the actions of the identitarians towards Bret for calling them out on it speaks volumes about what ideas they hold.

 

[ferball]

There is a massive difference between voluntarily removing yourself from a public space and other asking you to remove themselves because you don't have the right skin colour. These are silly ideas, people should be judge on their ideas and actions not their skin colour (refer to Dr King). And the actions of the identitarians towards Bret for calling them out on it speaks volumes about what ideas they hold.

What is that massive difference?

 

[ChampRevesby]

Basic economics?

More to do with media sponsorship & advertising I'd have thought.

Anyone arguing that a person ought to be paid $1 million for 2 weeks work comprising 7 games of tennis, has got more than a few screws loose.

People engage with and spend their money voluntarily because they are provided a service (entertainment) that people are willing to spend money on. So the voluntary transaction is between those that provide the service and those that have the money. In each instance, both parties get what they want without any coercion, this is how free markets work. Those that can provide will succeed and be compensated for it. Have a high enough demand (millions of fans) for a scare resource (a great tennis player) and you will make a lot of money. Advertisers want to tap into that base and influence that purchasing power, thats why you always see ads that are related to the sport in question. No fans, no money. So the question in all this, which part is "unfair"? That the tennis player worked hard to be brilliant or that there are millions of people that are willing to spend money to see them play (and do all the other things like buy merch etc)?

 

[Procrastinator35]

People engage with and spend their money voluntarily because they are provided a service (entertainment) that people are willing to spend money on. So the voluntary transaction is between those that provide the service and those that have the money. In each instance, both parties get what they want without any coercion, this is how free markets work. Those that can provide will succeed and be compensated for it. Have a high enough demand (millions of fans) for a scare resource (a great tennis player) and you will make a lot of money. Advertisers want to tap into that base and influence that purchasing power, thats why you always see ads that are related to the sport in question. No fans, no money. So the question in all this, which part is "unfair"? That the tennis player worked hard to be brilliant or that there are millions of people that are willing to spend money to see them play (and do all the other things like buy merch etc)?

Well Yes, I'm aware of how the so-called 'free-market' works.....Cheers all the same.

As I've intimated in my previous 2 posts, values are both arbitrary & contingent.....And the fact that tennis players can earn $1 million per tournament certainly reinforces that notion.....But it also puts into question the efficacy & hierarchy of values in place in today's culture.....That was more the point.....The market is by no means an objective measure of the intrinsic value of anything.....Human fickleness, tastes, fads, styles & stupidity are every bit as much factors, as are judgement & discernment.

This is the very point about the invisible hand of market-forces & money being the sole arbiters of objective value....They are nothing of the sort.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Well Yes, I'm aware of how the so-called 'free-market' works.....Cheers all the same.

As I've intimated in my previous 2 posts, values are both arbitrary & contingent.....And the fact that tennis players can earn $1 million per tournament certainly reinforces that notion.....But it also puts into question the efficacy & hierarchy of values in place in today's culture.....That was more the point.....The market is by no means an objective measure of the intrinsic value of anything.....Human fickleness, tastes, fads, styles & stupidity are every bit as much factors, as are judgement & discernment.

This is the very point about the invisible hand of market-forces & money being the sole arbiters of objective value....They are nothing of the sort.

Depends what you mean by value, the value of goods and services are dictated by supply and demand in a free market. If you mean value as in what we as individuals value, its a broad spectrum of things outside of the free market i.e. family, community etc.

The key point here is people are free to hold crazy opinions on whatever is cool etc and are also free to engage or not in the market to satisfy their needs or tastes. The markets reflect what people want out of it. If people are unhappy about what society thinks is trendy etc then thats not the markets fault, the market is just a place for free exchange.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Depends what you mean by value, the value of goods and services are dictated by supply and demand in a free market. If you mean value as in what we as individuals value, its a broad spectrum of things outside of the free market i.e. family, community etc.

The key point here is people are free to hold crazy opinions on whatever is cool etc and are also free to engage in the market to satisfy their needs or tastes. The markets reflect what people want out of it. If people are unhappy about what society thinks is trendy etc then thats not the markets fault, the market is just a place for free exchange.

You left out advertising & marketing as key factors in dictating human 'trends'.....You cannot have reference to an open & free 'invisible' market forces without taking due heed of human psychology.....There are definitive contingent factors in shaping cultural opinions & demands....The entire cosmetics industry for example is all about creating a false-image, prefaced upon human vanity & narcissistic frailty.

So again.....The notion of intrinsic value is the point you are missing here.

We all want cheaper energy, & the fact remains that we now have the tech available whereby all cars could be electronically run off batteries & solar & wind power can fuel our homes.....But certain dominant market forces interfere in the due process of 'progress' in order to subvert these changes for the better.....Human intervention & conspiring through monopolies is also another factor you fail to consider in your ideal market-place scenario.

Again.....The argument for a 'pure' & unmitigated 'invisible-hand', as in 'The Market itself' is a total nonsense.

 

[ChampRevesby]

You left out advertising & marketing as key factors in dictating human 'trends'.....You cannot have reference to an open & free 'invisible' market forces without taking due heed of human psychology.....There are definitive contingent factors in shaping cultural opinions & demands....The entire cosmetics industry for example is all about creating a false-image, prefaced upon human vanity & narcissistic frailty.

So again.....The notion of intrinsic value is the point you are missing here.

We all want cheaper energy, & the fact remains that we now have the tech available whereby all cars could be electronically run off batteries & solar & wind power can fuel our homes.....But certain dominant market forces interfere in the due process of 'progress' in order to subvert these changes for the better.....Human intervention & conspiring through monopolies is also another factor you fail to consider in your ideal market-place scenario.

Again.....The argument for a 'pure' & unmitigated 'invisible-hand', as in 'The Market itself' is a total nonsense.

I never said monopolies weren't good they aren't, its not a perfect system, never said it was, but its the best one we have.
Yes advertisers play on human psychology, but people you are free to ignore it (turn the TV off, laugh at the ads etc) and not hand over your money. This all comes down the personal responsibility, can't legislate against stupid. I actually don't think people are that fickle.

 

[ferball]

I never said monopolies weren't good they aren't, its not a perfect system, never said it was, but its the best one we have.
Yes advertisers play on human psychology, but people you are free to ignore it (turn the TV off, laugh at the ads etc) and not hand over your money. This all comes down the personal responsibility, can't legislate against stupid. I actually don't think people are that fickle.

And yet if it involves empathy with black people then somehow those personal free choices and that personal responsibility is not there? How can you say that is ok for one thing (interacting or not interacting with the market) but not for another (interacting or not interacting with an element of their university community) when essentially both things are examples of people exercising free choice?

 

[ChampRevesby]

And yet if it involves empathy with black people then somehow those personal free choices and that personal responsibility is not there? How can you say that is ok for one thing (interacting or not interacting with the market) but not for another (interacting or not interacting with an element of their university community) when essentially both things are examples of people exercising free choice?

Ok we are now off the reservation, good luck.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I never said monopolies weren't good they aren't, its not a perfect system, never said it was, (A.)but its the best one we have.
Yes advertisers play on human psychology, but people you are free to ignore it (turn the TV off, laugh at the ads etc) and not hand over your money. (B). This all comes down the personal responsibility, can't legislate against stupid.

(A). No it's not....It's one rife with corruption, of government complicity & market manipulations....There's nothing organic or natural about it, so far as an 'invisible market-forces hand' goes.

(B). Precisely....Ergo the focus upon the issue of 'value'.....Not monetary value but 'intrinsic' human values.

 

[ChampRevesby]

(A). No it's not....It's one rife with corruption, of government complicity & market manipulations....There's nothing organic or natural about it, so far as an 'invisible market-forces hand' goes.

(B). Precisely....Ergo the focus upon the issue of 'value'.....Not monetary value but 'intrinsic' human values.

Yes government should stay out of the market, they do nothing but screw it up. We should make corporate donations to political parties illegal.
Yeah I actually think family and community are important and the market allows me to provide for my family without coercion. I would like the government to take less but I understand its important to fund economic externalities.

 

[ferball]

Ok we are now off the reservation, good luck.

Classy choice of phrase.

So far most of what you said about Evergreen has been based on factual innacuracies and lies.

You also ignored what happened - a far right group protested at the school and the riot squad showed up - but claimed all the bad things were caused by uni students.

You probably claim this was because of the actions of the identitarians towards Brets but it was in response to far right threats, including one to commit a shooting massacre at the college. Earlier, (on the same day Weinstein went on Fox and sat quietly while they lied about the voluntary nature of the so called 'segregation' claiming it was a compulsory thing,) a member of that same far right group that protested had slashed the throats of three black men who stood up on a train to confront him after he attacked some Muslim women. Two of them died.

In response to the massacre threat the college was evacuated and closed for three days, because someone was on their way to town to “execute as many people on that campus as I can get a hold of... You communist, scumbag town.”(in their own words)

But over zealous uni students are the real threat...

 

[ShanDog]

Classy choice of phrase.

So far most of what you said about Evergreen has been based on factual innacuracies and lies.

You also ignored what happened - a far right group protested at the school and the riot squad showed up - but claimed all the bad things were caused by uni students.

You probably claim this was because of the actions of the identitarians towards Brets but it was in response to far right threats, including one to commit a shooting massacre at the college. Earlier, (on the same day Weinstein went on Fox and sat quietly while they lied about the voluntary nature of the so called 'segregation' claiming it was a compulsory thing,) a member of that same far right group that protested had slashed the throats of three black men who stood up on a train to confront him after he attacked some Muslim women. Two of them died.

In response to the massacre threat the college was evacuated and closed for three days, because someone was on their way to town to “execute as many people on that campus as I can get a hold of... You communist, scumbag town.”(in their own words)

But over zealous uni students are the real threat...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/opinion/when-the-left-turns-on-its-own.html

The “Day of Absence” is an Evergreen tradition that stretches back to the 1970s. As Mr. Weinstein explained on Wednesday in The Wall Street Journal, “in previous years students and faculty of color organized a day on which they met off campus — a symbolic act based on the Douglas Turner Ward play in which all the black residents of a Southern town fail to show up one morning.” This year, the script was flipped: “White students, staff and faculty will be invited to leave campus for the day’s activities,” reported the student newspaper on the change. The decision was made after students of color “voiced concern over feeling as if they are unwelcome on campus, following the 2016 election.”

Mr. Weinstein thought this was wrong. The biology professor said as much in a letter to Rashida Love, the school’s Director of First Peoples Multicultural Advising Services. “There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and under-appreciated roles,” he wrote, “and a group or coalition encouraging another group to go away.” The first instance, he argued, “is a forceful call to consciousness.” The second “is a show of force, and an act of oppression in and of itself.” In other words, what purported to be a request for white students and professors to leave campus was something more than that. It was an act of moral bullying — to stay on campus as a white person would mean to be tarred as a racist.

Couple dozen people yelling at you doesn't really seem 'inviting'.

 

[beta_condition]

Do you even know what happened there? It certainly doesn't seem like it.

Yes I do, you clearly don't. Look at the history of the college and see why this went over the line and why it was extremely racist. I'm stunned how you and Kidd Vicious believe it's a acceptable to exclude or judge someone based on the colour of their skin.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Yes I do, you clearly don't. Look at the history of the college and see why this went over the line and why it was extremely racist. I'm stunned how you and Kidd Vicious believe it's a acceptable to exclude or judge someone based on the colour of their skin.

I did what?

 

[Benny78]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/opinion/when-the-left-turns-on-its-own.html

​

Couple dozen people yelling at you doesn't really seem 'inviting'.

Oh no! We don't want this in our society!

We better listen to Murdoch and vote in his gold hoarding budget all around the globe before we iz overtaken with the left!

 

[ShanDog]

Oh no! We don't want this in our society!

We better listen to Murdoch and vote in his gold hoarding budget all around the globe before we iz overtaken with the left!

I don't follow.

 

[ferball]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/opinion/when-the-left-turns-on-its-own.html

​

Couple dozen people yelling at you doesn't really seem 'inviting'.

Its hardly shutting the campus down with threats of massacres, or violent riots by a white supremecist group on campus within days of one of their members stabbing a bunch of people, killing two thirds of them in a racially motivated terrorist attack.

What happened to Weinstein is basically the sort of internal politics that happen in unis all the time everywhere, it just found its way into the media/social media feedback machine. BFD. he's walked away with half a million dollars but the place he left has been subjected to an ongoing campaign of harassment and violent threats against peoples lives because of their political views.

IE people who object to Weinstein's treatment have threatened terrorism against a tertiary school.

But you're right. People shouting stuff at you is hardly inviting.

 

[Benny78]

I don't follow.

PC is merely a tool used by one man (Murdoch) to manipulate/outrage people with no emotional intelligence into voting for his political parties to establish his economic dreamworld. Drag Queens calling themselves women have been around for decades. So have big boned woman and people like Clementine Ford wanting all men dead.

The best part is flooding the market with cheap labour supply (immigration) and pissing the Australian off into voting for you!

 

[ferball]

Yes I do, you clearly don't. Look at the history of the college and see why this went over the line and why it was extremely racist. I'm stunned how you and Kidd Vicious believe it's a acceptable to exclude or judge someone based on the colour of their skin.

You really think that based on this discussion?

Its pointless going any further then.

 

[Hoops]

Yes, those are racist comments. Anytime you say that someone is only where they are or what they are because of the colour of their skin, it's prejudice against someone based on their race.

dazza68 likes this

If you are an ambitious indigenous Australian, you receive many additional extras compared to others that enable you to succeed

dazza68 likes this. This is despite it being seen as racist by Lethalitys definition.

 

[Lethality]

Oh no! We don't want this in our society!

We better listen to Murdoch and vote in his gold hoarding budget all around the globe before we iz overtaken with the left!

Or we can vote in small 'l' liberals who believe in free speech.

 

[Lethality]

Looks like the minimising of Mundine's racist comments against Horn just gave him a platform to make more bigoted comments against homosexuals weeks later.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Looks like the minimising of Mundine's racist comments against Horn just gave him a platform to make more bigoted comments against homosexuals weeks later.

Who knows why the media give this mouth-breather oxygen anymore.....Divisive head-lines & click-bait is all I can come up with.

Might pay for Anthony to give Pauline Hansen a call.....Match made in Hades that one.