Anthony Albanese - How long?

[Gethelred]

I'm certainly below the level of access and do want it to change, because most don't even know that they are kept down under the guise of it being for their safety. As with most government regulation.

It's why I am for lesser government because it's so very often used to protect the established power and influence and keep people from climbing up the ladder behind them. Pulling the metaphorical ladder up after they've climbed it.

You can see it in something as simple as trade qualifications, all the way to regulatory bodies being set up to protect people from the dangers of cryptocurrency by people who have made their millions already.

Ultimately I understand that people will accept giving up their opportunity and freedoms for the feeling of security and safety, even if those are illusions that maintain the status quo.

Such forms the basis of my perspective. There's no free markets and lobby groups use government to feather their own nests, usually at the expense of regular people.

This kind of feels like a deflection, Taylor. You're deflecting criticism of capitalists to government, after I refused to be deflected on size of wage.

 

[Taylor]

This kind of feels like a deflection, Taylor. You're deflecting criticism of capitalists to government, after I refused to be deflected on size of wage.

Interventionist governments isn't capitalist. It's corporatism and corruption rubberstamped by the election process in which we choose between two bought options.

The issue is the government being looked to for the solution to problems it isn't capable of resolving.

 

[Gethelred]

Interventionist governments isn't capitalist. It's corporatism and corruption rubberstamped by the election process in which we choose between two bought options.

But the desire to capture government is absolutely driven by and is a side effect of capitalism and capitalist impulses. 'Fixing' government when they are not really the entire problem is continued patchwork on a failing dam; it might keep the water in for just a little while longer, but eventually the *er's going to give.

The issue is the government being looked to for the solution to problems it isn't capable of resolving.

Okay.

Giving the solution over to a non regulated market does fill me with any amount of confidence in them, either. Reform and revolution has worked to shift status quo and tear down injustice before and will again, but so has it ruined lives and created a worse status quo than before it.

We need to find a compromise between burning it all down and the rule of tyrants, whether that rule is at the head of an army or in debt to a plutocrat.

 

[Taylor]

But the desire to capture government is absolutely driven by and is a side effect of capitalism and capitalist impulses. 'Fixing' government when they are not really the entire problem is continued patchwork on a failing dam; it might keep the water in for just a little while longer, but eventually the *er's going to give.

Okay.

Giving the solution over to a non regulated market does fill me with any amount of confidence in them, either. Reform and revolution has worked to shift status quo and tear down injustice before and will again, but so has it ruined lives and created a worse status quo than before it.

We need to find a compromise between burning it all down and the rule of tyrants, whether that rule is at the head of an army or in debt to a plutocrat.

The primary issue is that the government is empowered to attempt to regulate as much as it wants, this is what opens it to being corrupted. Removing that influence and ability I would argue won't have a detrimental impact on the lives of regular people.

Surrendering that control by the government will not be possible while people still see the solution to their issues being control of that big stick, the old phrase that anti-boot people are anti-boot until their team is wearing it applies.

I prefer there to be no boot because people are capable of engaging between each other in a fair manner without sledgehammer approaches. This doesn't exclude the possibility of worker collectives banding together to collectively bargain, but it should remove the possibility that the representatives of those collectives use the workers to push their own advancement and enrichment.

Same will apply to politics.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

 

[Festerz]

As someone who has been involved in both Commonwealth and State Cabinet processes in another life I feel a need to respond to this.

First of all, on a matter of fact. There was no '57th recommendation' in the RoboDebt Royal Commission Report. Morton is referencing a “closing observation” from the Commissioner herself to repeal part of the Freedom of Information Act that grants documents seen by the federal cabinet an exemption from publication. The Commissioner put that remark under the headline of 'observation' for a reason.

The reason why the Commissioner expressly made this an 'observation' rather than a recommendation is because she understands that there are compelling reasons why the confidentiality of in-Cabinet discussions and processes have been a long-standing tenet of government executive decision making processes. And that these go far beyond the scope of her inquiry. Foremost among them is the need for Ministers to feel confident to openly express their views and opinions on matters before them without the fear of those views, and the submissions that inform them, will be released publicly and used as a platform for political retribution.

The Cabinet process is a collegiate one and I think protecting the confidentiality of those discussions for a reasonable period of time is the best way of ensuring the best outcomes and ensuring that the full Cabinet and not just individual Ministers are accountable for Government decisions.

But the Commissioner does highlight an important flaw in the Cabinet confidentiality process. And that is the manner in which which both Coalition and Labor governments have increasingly used the Cabinet process to hide controversial proposals and discussions behind the confidential protocols. In fact I have directly evidenced Ministers and Departmental CEs referring matters to Cabinet that do not need Cabinet authority simply to ensure that the basis of the decision is protected by the confidentiality provisions.

But, as rightly pointed out by the Commissioner, this is a matter that sits outside the broader discussion of the RoboDebt RC Terms of Reference but to the process of government accountability and transparency in general. It is an important issue that needs to be highlighted and discussed but not used as a distraction from the systemic and deliberate failings of the RoboDebt scandal.

The fact is that the government has accepted and has committed to allocating funds and tabling legislation to respond to EVERY single one of the RoboDebt Royal Commission recommendations into the most despicable and dishonest schemes in recent memory that directly targeted the most vulnerable people in our community.


IMHO it is important to not lose sight of the significance of that.

 

[Gralin]

As someone who has been involved in both Commonwealth and State Cabinet processes in another life I feel a need to respond to this.

First of all, on a matter of fact. There was no '57th recommendation' in the RoboDebt Royal Commission Report. Morton is referencing a “closing observation” from the Commissioner herself to repeal part of the Freedom of Information Act that grants documents seen by the federal cabinet an exemption from publication. The Commissioner put that remark under the headline of 'observation' for a reason.

The reason why the Commissioner expressly made this an 'observation' rather than a recommendation is because she understands that there are compelling reasons why the confidentiality of in-Cabinet discussions and processes have been a long-standing tenet of government executive decision making processes. And that these go far beyond the scope of her inquiry. Foremost among them is the need for Ministers to feel confident to openly express their views and opinions on matters before them without the fear of those views, and the submissions that inform them, will be released publicly and used as a platform for political retribution.

The Cabinet process is a collegiate one and I think protecting the confidentiality of those discussions for a reasonable period of time is the best way of ensuring the best outcomes and ensuring that the full Cabinet and not just individual Ministers are accountable for Government decisions.

But the Commissioner does highlight an important flaw in the Cabinet confidentiality process. And that is the manner in which which both Coalition and Labor governments have increasingly used the Cabinet process to hide controversial proposals and discussions behind the confidential protocols. In fact I have directly evidenced Ministers and Departmental CEs referring matters to Cabinet that do not need Cabinet authority simply to ensure that the basis of the decision is protected by the confidentiality provisions.

But, as rightly pointed out by the Commissioner, this is a matter that sits outside the broader discussion of the RoboDebt RC Terms of Reference but to the process of government accountability and transparency in general. It is an important issue that needs to be highlighted and discussed but not used as a distraction from the systemic and deliberate failings of the RoboDebt scandal.

The fact is that the government has accepted and has committed to allocating funds and tabling legislation to respond to EVERY single one of the RoboDebt Royal Commission recommendations into the most despicable and dishonest schemes in recent memory that directly targeted the most vulnerable people in our community.


IMHO it is important to not lose sight of the significance of that.

That's cool and all but the website and the report both say 57 recommendations as well.

https://robodebt.royalcommission.gov.au/publications/report

Also I'll wait to see the results of this before I pat a government on the back that continues to force people to live in poverty and is going after debts going back to the 1970s because they put getting that money in their forward estimates to make the budget look better

 

[Festerz]

That's cool and all but the website and the report both say 57 recommendations as well.


Also I'll wait to see the results of this before I pat a government on the back that continues to force people to live in poverty and is going after debts going back to the 1970s because they put getting that money in their forward estimates to make the budget look better

Fair enough. Accountability for promises made is key. As is context. Have you read the full report?

Because if you do take a look at the Full Report rather than the summary page you will see that every recommendation of the report is listed with a recommendation number. For example:



But as you will see that the observations relating to the Cabinet process is explicitly listed as a 'closing recommendation' without a recommendation number:



Pretty clear that there is a formatting issue here and the Commissioner expressly made the decision to make that point as a closing observation and NOT a formal recommendation. And I think it's pretty clear that the Government clarified that point before it released the report and issued its formal response.


And to be clear I do not in any way disagree with the closing observation about the transparency of the Cabinet process but just highlighting WHY it was specifically referenced as an 'observation' - i.e. a marker for the public and the government on a broader issue of concern outside of the recommendations specifically relating to the RoboDebt scheme itself.

 

[Gralin]

Fair enough. Accountability for promises made is key. As is context.

And to be clear I do not in any way disagree with the closing observation about the transparency of the Cabinet process but just highlighting WHY it was specifically referenced as an 'observation' - i.e. a marker for the public and the government on a broader issue of concern outside of the recommendations specifically relating to the RoboDebt scheme itself.

I'd say it's a pretty core reason something like robodebt can happen.
And I think the government pretending like it wasn't an actual recommendation so they can say they've enacted everything is a perfect example of the lack of transparency we deal with daily from government.

I also find Labor acting like robodebt was/is the only issue with welfare while they go on issuing automated debt collection notices and fight on court to take money from people on welfare abhorrent

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Well done albo...

"Australia's record high migration was weighing on the rental market and making the Reserve Bank's battle to reduce inflation tougher."

"'If you want a loan you have to be better off, and essentially rich,' Mr Elliott told The Australian."

"ANZ boss Shayne Elliot said it is now the most difficult environment to get approved for a home loan in three decades due to high mortgage repayments and tougher lending regulations."

True equality and looking after the workers...that is modern labor

How painful can it get before the left realize.... or are we still adamant its Tony Abbott's or Scomos fault or Costello even

 

[nut]

Well done albo...

"Australia's record high migration was weighing on the rental market and making the Reserve Bank's battle to reduce inflation tougher."



"'If you want a loan you have to be better off, and essentially rich,' Mr Elliott told The Australian."

"ANZ boss Shayne Elliot said it is now the most difficult environment to get approved for a home loan in three decades due to high mortgage repayments and tougher lending regulations."

True equality and looking after the workers...that is modern labor

How painful can it get before the left realize.... or are we still adamant its Tony Abbott's or Scomos fault or Costello even

What has Albo implemented that is causing inflation?
Which country is dealing with inflation better? And what should Albo copy from these countries?

 

[nut]

Unemployment Rate in Australia decreased to 3.60 percent in September from 3.7…

That is why interest rates are going up!!!!!!! Not because of inflation.

 

[peetoo]

Fair enough. Accountability for promises made is key. As is context. Have you read the full report?

Because if you do take a look at the Full Report rather than the summary page you will see that every recommendation of the report is listed with a recommendation number. For example:

View attachment 1852548

But as you will see that the observations relating to the Cabinet process is explicitly listed as a 'closing recommendation' without a recommendation number:

View attachment 1852546

Pretty clear that there is a formatting issue here and the Commissioner expressly made the decision to make that point as a closing observation and NOT a formal recommendation. And I think it's pretty clear that the Government clarified that point before it released the report and issued its formal response.


And to be clear I do not in any way disagree with the closing observation about the transparency of the Cabinet process but just highlighting WHY it was specifically referenced as an 'observation' - i.e. a marker for the public and the government on a broader issue of concern outside of the recommendations specifically relating to the RoboDebt scheme itself.

If governments weren’t continually merging and splitting depts, their could be more focus on clients and the job in hand

I recently saw a project where ‘vips are to have disruption minimised’. Why? Their stupidity is causing the disruption?

 

[Rob R]

Well done albo...

"Australia's record high migration was weighing on the rental market and making the Reserve Bank's battle to reduce inflation tougher."

"'If you want a loan you have to be better off, and essentially rich,' Mr Elliott told The Australian."

"ANZ boss Shayne Elliot said it is now the most difficult environment to get approved for a home loan in three decades due to high mortgage repayments and tougher lending regulations."

True equality and looking after the workers...that is modern labor

How painful can it get before the left realize.... or are we still adamant its Tony Abbott's or Scomos fault or Costello even

Trouble is the Libs are just as addicted if not moreso to excessive immigration so they can 1) claim growth when we are actually in per capita recession, 2) pander to interest groups especially business and 3) protect their own property portfolios. Neither party is going to do the right thing and slash immigration to responsible levels (by ensuring immigration is focussed on what we need not what some lobbyist asks for over dinner) whilst investing in education and encouraging people (and jobs) away from the over populated cesspitts of Sydney and Melbourne.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rob R]

Unemployment Rate in Australia decreased to 3.60 percent in September from 3.7…

That is why interest rates are going up!!!!!!! Not because of inflation.

It would be good if that stat actually had meaning rather than hide the scale of underemployment that exists. However over time, both parties have adjusted it to make themselves look better in govt.

Sep 23 seasonally adjusted stats show we don't need this level of immigration if we used/trained people here properly especially with the cuts to full time jobs.

unemployment rate decreased to 3.6%.

participation rate decreased to 66.7%.

employment increased to 14,111,200.

employment to population ratio decreased to 64.4%.

underemployment rate decreased to 6.4%.

monthly hours worked decreased to 1,930 million.

full-time employment decreased by 39,900 to 9,806,400 people.

part-time employment increased by 46,500 to 4,304,800 people


On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[spinynorman]

I'm sure Labor's got some inspiring policies waiting in the wings to turn this around, but alarming for them nonetheless.

 

[Vindicater]

I'm sure Labor's got some inspiring policies waiting in the wings to turn this around, but alarming for them nonetheless.

Isn't Morgan the polling group that does not show its methodology and has seen huge spikes for and against Labor with each successive poll?

 

[Gralin]

You know what government policy will be inflationary?
Stage 3 tax cuts

 

[Festerz]

I'm sure Labor's got some inspiring policies waiting in the wings to turn this around, but alarming for them nonetheless.

What 'inspiring policies' from Dutton and the coalition over the past 12 months has led to them achieving a 'term high' lead in 2PP polling?

Name just one.

The simple fact is that politicians governing for a high opinion poll rating rather than for the implementation of sustainable policies for the long term benefit of the country is exactly the sort of populist BS that led to RoboDebt and the current housing crisis. As is opposition politicians using cheap populist soundbites to continually oppose any policy change without offering alternatives.

 

[Gough]

‘Just call him a child abuser’: Trump told Walker to use slur against Warnock, book says

ABC News correspondent Jonathan Karl reports blunt advice from former president to use debunked claim in US Senate race

www.theguardian.com

Dutton is taking his inspiration from this sort of politicking. As leader of the opposition he knows what he says will get coverage and a lot of his lies are designed solely to get his opponents to deny it.

 

[Gralin]

‘Just call him a child abuser’: Trump told Walker to use slur against Warnock, book says

ABC News correspondent Jonathan Karl reports blunt advice from former president to use debunked claim in US Senate race

www.theguardian.com

Dutton is taking his inspiration from this sort of politicking. As leader of the opposition he knows what he says will get coverage and a lot of his lies are designed solely to get his opponents to deny it.

all you had to do was watch the national press club yesterday, see the questions, see the answers and then see how it was reported on to know that our media is an active partner in this

 

[spinynorman]

What 'inspiring policies' from Dutton and the coalition over the past 12 months has led to them achieving a 'term high' lead in 2PP polling?

Name just one.

The simple fact is that politicians governing for a high opinion poll rating rather than for the implementation of sustainable policies for the long term benefit of the country is exactly the sort of populist BS that led to RoboDebt and the current housing crisis. As is opposition politicians using cheap populist soundbites to continually oppose any policy change without offering alternatives.

Yes, we can continue to see the bouncing between the two parties in and out of government, in neither case actually inspiring the population into being invested in the government’s ambitions to make people’s lives better, and neither achieving anything except a continued slide to serfdom. At least for the Coalition that is basically what they want to achieve, what’s Labor’s excuse?

 

[Festerz]

Yes, we can continue to see the bouncing between the two parties in and out of government, in neither case actually inspiring the population into being invested in the government’s ambitions to make people’s lives better, and neither achieving anything except a continued slide to serfdom. At least for the Coalition that is basically what they want to achieve, what’s Labor’s excuse?

Unsurprisingly you missed the point entirely and responded with meaningless political rhetoric.

So how about some facts.

In the 18 months since being elected the current government..

- repaired fractured relations with our south pacific neighbours that were at real risk of becoming Chinese forward bases due to the inaction of the previous government;

- restored diplomatic relations with China that has seen the removal of crippling trade sanctions that cost Australia $20 billion/year in lost export revenue;

- passed climate change legislation that finally recognised the devastating effects of global warming and will enshrine into law an emissions reduction targets.

- introduced legislation leading to the biggest overhaul of the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme this century with changes in pricing and dispensing laws that immediately reduced the cost of PBS medications to all Australians by 29%

- as part of a $1.5 billion program, have increased bulk billing co-payment to doctors by 34% in major cities and 50% in regional areas making health care more affordable to veterans, pensioners, ckids under 16, pensioners, concession card holers and other low income and vulnerable Australians.

- implemented a Royal Commission into the illegal and immoral RoboDebt Scheme of the previous coalition government that exposed the lies and complicity of the former PM and his cabinet and top public servants. The Government has committed to implementing ALL of the recommendations from that report.

- passed landmark legislation to deliver the single biggest investment in affordable and social housing in more than a decade and reached agreement with the states and territories in National Cabinet to reform state rental legislation and the introduction of reforms around planning, land release and boosting renters rights.

- etc, etc.

Many of these reforms have been forgotten or gone un-noticed in the media press where the focus has been on coalition led mis-information and politically motivated naysaying.

And while it is correct to say that the government should have gone much further in implementing major reforms in the the first 18 months of its term (especially in energy pricing and housing policy reform), it is simply a lie to say that nothing has been achieved to make peoples' lives better. The simple fact is that first year and a half has seen more done to improve the lives of low income Australians than anything done in the decade of Abbot/Turnbull/Morrison government.

The sad fact is that the hard stuff on policy reform takes years not months and our 3 year election cycle and a cynical sensationalist media places a focus on populism which leads to short sighted self serving policies - such as the State 3 tax cuts legislated by the Morrison government and committed to by the ALP in its election promises to avoid a political wedge trap set by Morrison and the Murdoch press. Those tax cuts- benefitting the most well off in the community will cost a staggering $313 Billion over 10 years. A bloody disgrace.

But yeah - you keep us updated on the opinion polls. Because that's what matters to making 'people's lives better'.

 

[Festerz]

Unemployment Rate in Australia decreased to 3.60 percent in September from 3.7…

That is why interest rates are going up!!!!!!! Not because of inflation.

Yes and No.

Not many realise that maintaining full employment is one of the mandated objectives of the Reserve Bank whose focus is on maintaining a tricky balance between keeping inflation within its target range and maintaining production and employment at healthy levels. Apart from intervening in the cash market, the only tool it has at its disposal is the blunt instrument of official interest rates.

The full reasoning behind Reserve Bank Board decisions on interest rates are outlined in their Board meeting minutes- which are released 2 weeks after the decision is made. So while the minutes for last week's meeting are not available, those for previous meetings are readily accessible online.

Minutes of the Monetary Policy Meeting of the Board

Minutes of the Monetary Policy Meetings of the Reserve Bank Board

www.rba.gov.au

Taking a look at the August meeting it's pretty clear that global conditions continue to play the major role in influencing Australian interest rates settings - especially concerns about global financial stability, outside of China, that were relevant to Australia.

And that while inflation is trending downwards in Australia, the fact it still remains above the RBAs target is their main concern - as it is for most other OECD countries.

 

[Gralin]

Unsurprisingly you missed the point entirely and responded with meaningless political rhetoric.

you mean like the politicians and media do daily instead of actually addressing issues?
or how they call someone calling them on their bullshit politcal rhetoric

when did bringing politics into a discussion on politics become such a bad thing?

So how about some facts.

In the 18 months since being elected the current government..

- repaired fractured relations with our south pacific neighbours that were at real risk of becoming Chinese forward bases due to the inaction of the previous government;

lol we're still doing our level best to drown them but we've said they can have visas to come be exploited workers in the meantime

- restored diplomatic relations with China that has seen the removal of crippling trade sanctions that cost Australia $20 billion/year in lost export revenue;

nice of the US to let them do that this time I guess

- passed climate change legislation that finally recognised the devastating effects of global warming and will enshrine into law an emissions reduction targets.

biggest ******* lol joke ever, how can you put this in the win column with a straight face?
its not going to do what it needs to and meanwhile they've been approving new projects hand over fist and going to court to be able to do so when challenged

- introduced legislation leading to the biggest overhaul of the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme this century with changes in pricing and dispensing laws that immediately reduced the cost of PBS medications to all Australians by 29%

PBS is broken, they also did fun stuff like remove some ADHD beds from the scheme

- as part of a $1.5 billion program, have increased bulk billing co-payment to doctors by 34% in major cities and 50% in regional areas making health care more affordable to veterans, pensioners, ckids under 16, pensioners, concession card holers and other low income and vulnerable Australians.

must just be me that's not seeing the benefit from this then with GP appointments haven't heard this from anyone else, clear win I guess

- implemented a Royal Commission into the illegal and immoral RoboDebt Scheme of the previous coalition government that exposed the lies and complicity of the former PM and his cabinet and top public servants. The Government has committed to implementing ALL of the recommendations from that report.

yeah they're not but keep running their propaganda for them

- passed landmark legislation to deliver the single biggest investment in affordable and social housing in more than a decade and reached agreement with the states and territories in National Cabinet to reform state rental legislation and the introduction of reforms around planning, land release and boosting renters rights.

******* lol again
developers are laughing to the bank and people are going to continue to have insecure housing

- etc, etc.

Many of these reforms have been forgotten or gone un-noticed in the media press where the focus has been on coalition led mis-information and politically motivated naysaying.

many of these reforms are covered under tinkering around the edges or the carbon copy of the coalition announcement strategy where they announce something to get a headline and pressure off them and thats it

And while it is correct to say that the government should have gone much further in implementing major reforms in the the first 18 months of its term (especially in energy pricing and housing policy reform), it is simply a lie to say that nothing has been achieved to make peoples' lives better. The simple fact is that first year and a half has seen more done to improve the lives of low income Australians than anything done in the decade of Abbot/Turnbull/Morrison government.

labor have not changed the course we are on, they've lightly tapped the brakes on a few issues and accelerated others, most they've left going at the same pace

The sad fact is that the hard stuff on policy reform takes years not months and our 3 year election cycle and a cynical sensationalist media places a focus on populism which leads to short sighted self serving policies - such as the State 3 tax cuts legislated by the Morrison government and committed to by the ALP in its election promises to avoid a political wedge trap set by Morrison and the Murdoch press. Those tax cuts- benefitting the most well off in the community will cost a staggering $313 Billion over 10 years. A bloody disgrace.

the stage 3 tax cuts that the government could stop at any time
the ones they voted for in opposition
those tax cuts

at some point labor and their supporters have to take responsibility for the current governments lack of willingness to do challenging things and actually govern