Apples' Training Reports

[Soups]

Yeah me too. But a few thought he'd be forward.

Yeah he might be tried in all positions but I think because his goal kicking is average they will start him back before maybe a midfield role.

 

[loki04]

Fantastic reading the various assessments of time trial performances and what they mean for some of our team. My two cents - I wonder what sort of times Fyfe, Dangerfield, Martin, Franklin and other top 10 in the game players run in their time trials, and I would rather Josh Smith use his endurance to stay away from the football that he has no idea what to do with when he gets it.

Back when Graham Johncock was playing for Adelaide they had a club standard that needed to be met if you wanted to break into the midfield it was 6:30. i'd assume it is a similar time at many clubs.

So one would Assume 6.30 to 7.00 flat for other positions is ok.

 

[loki04]

at the risk of getting my head kicked off i dont think Buckley was an ordinary kick but he did kick the ball too hard. His passes did not need to be bullets all the time but they generally were.

He was the best field kick I've seen play the game bar none.

 

[DaVe86]

There's a lot of hysteria over Kirby's 2km time.

If Kirby was an elite athlete and in good shape, he would have gone top 10 in the draft. He slipped through to where he did because of his fitness concerns and the fact he was overweight.

So it's not surprising that he struggles in 2km time-trials.

Having said that, clearly he needs to be improving. It takes many players 3 solid pre-seasons before they improve their tanks. It might also take a bit longer for the penny to drop in such a young player

In any event, he seems a punt worth taking. His VFL form alone shows how good he can be.

However, I'll probably pay less attention to a 2km time-trial, and more attention to Kirby's repeat efforts during games. It was made really clear last year in round 23 that Kirby was a long way off AFL pace. The clearest example was when Goldsack took off with the football and had about 4 bounces, and all he needed was Kirby to run with him so he could draw the player and handball over the top. But Kirby just couldn't keep up and dropped off. It forced Goldsack to have a shot from distance.

 

[jmac70]

There's a lot of hysteria over Kirby's 2km time.

If Kirby was an elite athlete and in good shape, he would have gone top 10 in the draft. He slipped through to where he did because of his fitness concerns and the fact he was overweight.

So it's not surprising that he struggles in 2km time-trials.

Having said that, clearly he needs to be improving. It takes many players 3 solid pre-seasons before they improve their tanks. It might also take a bit longer for the penny to drop in such a young player

In any event, he seems a punt worth taking. His VFL form alone shows how good he can be.

However, I'll probably pay less attention to a 2km time-trial, and more attention to Kirby's repeat efforts during games. It was made really clear last year in round 23 that Kirby was a long way off AFL pace. The clearest example was when Goldsack took off with the football and had about 4 bounces, and all he needed was Kirby to run with him so he could draw the player and handball over the top. But Kirby just couldn't keep up and dropped off. It forced Goldsack to have a shot from distance.

I think the focus on Kirby's TT is because supporters are so excited by his talent and desperately want him to make it. As you said, his fitness has always been the major concern and is likely to continue to be. The fact is that he is going to need to show considerable improvement in this area to remain on the list in 2019. Hopefully he can.

 

[cleomenes]

There's a lot of hysteria over Kirby's 2km time.



However, I'll probably pay less attention to a 2km time-trial, and more attention to Kirby's repeat efforts during games. It was made really clear last year in round 23 that Kirby was a long way off AFL pace. The clearest example was when Goldsack took off with the football and had about 4 bounces, and all he needed was Kirby to run with him so he could draw the player and handball over the top. But Kirby just couldn't keep up and dropped off. It forced Goldsack to have a shot from distance.

This is the essence of the Kirby situation. If I remember, this was late in the game. It shows where Kirby was then. It was at the end of the season, when (VFL) match fitness was good. We expect improvement this year, and there seems to have been some. I really don't think we can say much more.
For what it's worth, I can recall a similar failure from Rene Kink as Ron Wearmouth ran down the ground pursued by Crackers Keenan, and that was in a Grand Final.
Kirby is learning in a very hard school. Cut him some slack, he is, after all, one of ours.

 

[Anzacday]

I seem to recall a lot of concern about Brodie's time trials, (always finishing near the back).
Hasn't hampered him and now we can see his dedication shining through.
Patience grasshopper(s).

 

[jackcass]

Like Wells, Kirby turned up for training out of shape last year. And like Degoey, their actions (or inaction in their case) let the club down. So of course their training habits are going to be under the microscope the next time around. In this case the reports are that Wells was at the Centre training months before preseason and seen running on his days off. The reports on Kirby are that for whatever reason he is slower than before xmas. It warrants discussion on his training. Obviously personal shots are crossing the line.

Yet there were pictures of Kirby during the post GF break in what appeared to be a private gym which to me says more about his attitude than dropping 9 seconds in comparative time trials. Glass 1/2 full, glass 1/2 empty.

 

[jackcass]

He may do but can he still produce all of those things by midway through the 3rd quarter when his direct opponent is starting to run circles around him?

Bit like Jetta in round 23.... oh wait.

 

[jackcass]

He was the best field kick I've seen play the game bar none.

Be in my top 5 at Collingwood over my time watching.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

He is progressing isn’t he?

If he kicks 40-50 goals in the VFL again surely he’s not getting delisted at the end of the year.

That’s my take.
He seems to be progressing overall.

Like all players he’ll get there by dint of talent and work.

I’m not going to singularly focus on one aspect like a time trial.

 

[Scodog10]

Imagine young Kirby is reading this....

He'd feel the love.
He'd feel the encouragement.
He'd feel the support.

But don't worry if (when) he's comes good, the band wagon will be very crowded with the back slappers.

It’s a fine line SV. Let’s say he comes on here reading adoration for what are clearly sub standard results. Does that actually help? IMO, it’s akin to providing praise to a misbehaving child...

My hope would be that he’s receiving the correct guidance and isn’t coming anywhere near footy forums to read the bullshit of the masses.

FWIW I’m sure most see this differently to me and I understand why, but I’m harder on the ones I rate than the ones I don’t. There’s so much to like about Kirby, so much! Unfortunately though unless he knuckles down significantly re his fitness (I mean seriously the “it’s only a TT” stuff is nonsense) he will struggle at the next level because he can’t go both ways at his current fitness level. It’s harsh obviously, but it’s absolutely true and I’d rather call it as I see it than blow wind!

The other two that are in my sights are Broomhead and Scharenberg. Broomhead has pretty much lost me and Scharenberg is on notice in 2018. It’s time for both of them to deliver!

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It’s a fine line SV. Let’s say he comes on here reading adoration for what are clearly sub standard results. Does that actually help? IMO, it’s akin to providing praise to a misbehaving child...

My hope would be that he’s receiving the correct guidance and isn’t coming anywhere near footy forums to read the bullshit of the masses.

FWIW I’m sure most see this differently to me and I understand why, but I’m harder on the ones I rate than the ones I don’t. There’s so much to like about Kirby, so much! Unfortunately though unless he knuckles down significantly re his fitness (I mean seriously the “it’s only a TT” stuff is nonsense) he will struggle at the next level because he can’t go both ways at his current fitness level. It’s harsh obviously, but it’s absolutely true and I’d rather call it as I see it than blow wind!

The other two that are in my sights are Broomhead and Scharenberg. Broomhead has pretty much lost me and Scharenberg is on notice in 2018. It’s time for both of them to deliver!

And all fair points.

You are correct, in a major point, as a player only reading fawning doesn't help either.

I'm bullish on Scharenberg myself, Broomy is on notice and this looks a make or break year.
Kirby I'm hopeful, but will be up to him. He's lucky that he at least seems to have natural talent.
But it only takes you so far.

 

[mattys123]

Interesting reading most of the comments and thoughts on Kirby.

I was at training yesterday, and it's obvious the club knows where Kirby is at in terms of fitness.

He completed most of the session, then just before the end went inside for a few minutes. He came back out with his running shoes on and one of the fitness guys ran him up and own the field, almost from end to end, repeatedly.

At no stage did he stop, at no stage did he look to pull out of not do as instructed.

The time trial times obviously show he needs to work, and work hard, but from what I've seen, and been told by others who have attended training sessions of late, he's as committed as any player during training.

Another comment I'll make about training. I counted 25 men (and one woman, which makes 26) non playing personnel on the ground yesterday for the training session. I don't mind seeing this, in fact I like it, but I'd never seen so many non players on the field during training before. Seems our focus really has gone from fitness and developing athletes to primarily focussing on what we are trying to do here, WIN FOOTBALL GAMES, and develop professional footballers.

 

[Scodog10]

Interesting reading most of the comments and thoughts on Kirby.

I was at training yesterday, and it's obvious the club knows where Kirby is at in terms of fitness.

He completed most of the session, then just before the end went inside for a few minutes. He came back out with his running shoes on and one of the fitness guys ran him up and own the field, almost from end to end, repeatedly.

At no stage did he stop, at no stage did he look to pull out of not do as instructed.

The time trial times obviously show he needs to work, and work hard, but from what I've seen, and been told by others who have attended training sessions of late, he's as committed as any player during training.

Another comment I'll make about training. I counted 25 men (and one woman, which makes 26) non playing personnel on the ground yesterday for the training session. I don't mind seeing this, in fact I like it, but I'd never seen so many non players on the field during training before. Seems our focus really has gone from fitness and developing athletes to primarily focussing on what we are trying to do here, WIN FOOTBALL GAMES, and develop professional footballers.

That seems a bit too many chiefs and not enough indians to me so are you able to provide further context around what the aim of the session appeared to be?

Straight off the bat I know it wasn’t match sim so was it ball use under pressure? End to end ball movement and two way running? Transition? Was it heavily individualised? Release from stoppages? Running focus or ball focus?

I enjoy Mazz’s reports, but for me there’s a little too much focus on individuals and I love the analytical group focus.

 

[Horaceg]

Interesting reading most of the comments and thoughts on Kirby.

I was at training yesterday, and it's obvious the club knows where Kirby is at in terms of fitness.

He completed most of the session, then just before the end went inside for a few minutes. He came back out with his running shoes on and one of the fitness guys ran him up and own the field, almost from end to end, repeatedly.

At no stage did he stop, at no stage did he look to pull out of not do as instructed.

The time trial times obviously show he needs to work, and work hard, but from what I've seen, and been told by others who have attended training sessions of late, he's as committed as any player during training.

Another comment I'll make about training. I counted 25 men (and one woman, which makes 26) non playing personnel on the ground yesterday for the training session. I don't mind seeing this, in fact I like it, but I'd never seen so many non players on the field during training before. Seems our focus really has gone from fitness and developing athletes to primarily focussing on what we are trying to do here, WIN FOOTBALL GAMES, and develop professional footballers.

Appreciate the observation and not speculation, thanks

 

[watt price tully]

Interesting reading most of the comments and thoughts on Kirby.

I was at training yesterday, and it's obvious the club knows where Kirby is at in terms of fitness.

He completed most of the session, then just before the end went inside for a few minutes. He came back out with his running shoes on and one of the fitness guys ran him up and own the field, almost from end to end, repeatedly.

At no stage did he stop, at no stage did he look to pull out of not do as instructed.

The time trial times obviously show he needs to work, and work hard, but from what I've seen, and been told by others who have attended training sessions of late, he's as committed as any player during training.

Another comment I'll make about training. I counted 25 men (and one woman, which makes 26) non playing personnel on the ground yesterday for the training session. I don't mind seeing this, in fact I like it, but I'd never seen so many non players on the field during training before. Seems our focus really has gone from fitness and developing athletes to primarily focussing on what we are trying to do here, WIN FOOTBALL GAMES, and develop professional footballers.

Thanks for that Matt. Gread to read. You mean the club knows better than us about Kirby? I'm shocked!
The observation about so many non players on the ground is an intersting one.

BTW was Murray on the ground?

 

[TradeDraft]

There's a lot of hysteria over Kirby's 2km time.

If Kirby was an elite athlete and in good shape, he would have gone top 10 in the draft. He slipped through to where he did because of his fitness concerns and the fact he was overweight.

So it's not surprising that he struggles in 2km time-trials.

Having said that, clearly he needs to be improving. It takes many players 3 solid pre-seasons before they improve their tanks. It might also take a bit longer for the penny to drop in such a young player

In any event, he seems a punt worth taking. His VFL form alone shows how good he can be.

However, I'll probably pay less attention to a 2km time-trial, and more attention to Kirby's repeat efforts during games. It was made really clear last year in round 23 that Kirby was a long way off AFL pace. The clearest example was when Goldsack took off with the football and had about 4 bounces, and all he needed was Kirby to run with him so he could draw the player and handball over the top. But Kirby just couldn't keep up and dropped off. It forced Goldsack to have a shot from distance.

Kirby still probably a Season or 2 away from being a Potential Best 22 Player

 

[TradeDraft]

Another comment I'll make about training. I counted 25 men (and one woman, which makes 26) non playing personnel on the ground yesterday for the training session. I don't mind seeing this, in fact I like it, but I'd never seen so many non players on the field during training before. Seems our focus really has gone from fitness and developing athletes to primarily focussing on what we are trying to do here, WIN FOOTBALL GAMES, and develop professional footballers.

Glad we not Cheap Skating the Footy Department anymore

 

[CFC2010]

That obvious? Hasn’t been mentioned this off-season and no injury news either. It grinds my gears that a guy like Blair gets slagged off, but by and large this guy escapes the same level of criticism.

Any chance we get that person's 2k time trial or is he still injured?

 

[neilk]

That obvious? Hasn’t been mentioned this off-season and no injury news either. It grinds my gears that a guy like Blair gets slagged off, but by and large this guy escapes the same level of criticism.



Again though it’s SUBJECTIVE it is not black and white.

I don’t agree with the POV, but I can at least acknowledge that because it involves the surname Daicos it automatically makes it taboo with some so I’m out.

I still wonder if his name was Josh Jones would he even be on an AFL list?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

You try typing with one eye Saintly

Touché.

You truly are a Columbo amongst us.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

By the way how is Adam Oxley going?

Just wondering.....

 

[mattys123]

That seems a bit too many chiefs and not enough indians to me so are you able to provide further context around what the aim of the session appeared to be?

Straight off the bat I know it wasn’t match sim so was it ball use under pressure? End to end ball movement and two way running? Transition? Was it heavily individualised? Release from stoppages? Running focus or ball focus?

I enjoy Mazz’s reports, but for me there’s a little too much focus on individuals and I love the analytical group focus.

The session yesterday was mainly made up of small groups of 8-10 players all spread out around the ground.

Divided between mids, backs, kids and forwards each group had 5-6 non playing personnel around them. Skills were the focus. Stoppages, forward ball movement and goal kicking, accurate ball use over 15-20m or ground fielding and tackling.

While Wednesday isn't there main session it was obvious there had been a change. A lot more coaching within small groups with focus on each players roles within the team.

 

[mattys123]

Thanks for that Matt. Gread to read. You mean the club knows better than us about Kirby? I'm shocked!
The observation about so many non players on the ground is an intersting one.

BTW was Murray on the ground?

Murray joined in at the start but was then with the rehab group (Moore, Fasolo, McLarty, Varcoe and a few others). He then went off early. Not sure what he is recovering from but not 100% yet