Training Apples' Training Threads 2018/19

[sirlothie]

According to some (one) on here you aren’t a real supporter.
Unless your bum is on a seat at the G, you don’t qualify!

We have about a million supporters so we'd have to build a bloody big stadium!

 

[sr36]

Its been rubbish since they made drop punts mandatory!

The beauty of memory is that it often makes everything beautiful.

 

[Robroy22]

Bring back the droppie you reckon ?

Nah mate, but when players COULD kick a variety of kicks (and used both sides) they didn't seem to have the yips like players do today. Not all players are suited to kicking drop punts but yet they're forced to. Most players (like Pendles who can't nail a set shot to save himself) can kick the drop punt round corners and into bins when there's no pressure on....but in the heat of battle they struggle to hit the "sweet spot" on the ball kicking a drop punt. A good old ugly flat punt gives them twice as much ball to hit and its deadly straight from inside 30m....

 

[Robroy22]

The beauty of memory is that it often makes everything beautiful.

Name me 10 blokes who are deadly with drop punts today mate, test YOUR memory? (deadly=90% accurate at shots at goal)
McKenna, Quinlan, Templeton and Lockett were, Daicos too (even Warwick Capper was ok). Gunston used to be pretty good, Cyril? Jamie Elliot's pretty good too....Matty Lloyd was OK. Who could you pick today that could kick 10 out of 12? Bruest?

Drop punts actually have less chance of being accurate from close range because MOST players have a natural curve on their kicks. At close range the ball doesn't have a chance to re-centre itself before it misses the goal.

 

[Scodog10]

Name me 10 blokes who are deadly with drop punts today mate, test YOUR memory? (deadly=90% accurate at shots at goal)
McKenna, Quinlan, Templeton and Lockett were, Daicos too (even Warwick Capper was ok). Gunston used to be pretty good, Cyril? Jamie Elliot's pretty good too....Matty Lloyd was OK. Who could you pick today that could kick 10 out of 12? Bruest?

Drop punts actually have less chance of being accurate from close range because MOST players have a natural curve on their kicks. At close range the ball doesn't have a chance to re-centre itself before it misses the goal.

I’m 100% on the same page, but you’re looking at the greats of the past through rose coloured glasses, IMO.

The 5-6 blokes you named were some of the most skilful guys to ever play the game, but even the best of them, plugger, only went at a tick under 70%. Most of them were low 60’s which is slightly above the league average when rushed behinds are taken into account. This will blow your mind, but Buddy has a better conversion rate than Quinlan. Including OOF would change that though.

My two cents is that anyone that struggles like Pendles should consider using the flat punt within 30-40 of goal.

 

[Robroy22]

We have about a million supporters so we'd have to build a bloody big stadium!

Jeez I'd like to see all our supporters in one place at one time, just ONCE. The Collingwood chant would be enormous!

 

[NeverWobble]

Nah mate, but when players COULD kick a variety of kicks (and used both sides) they didn't seem to have the yips like players do today. Not all players are suited to kicking drop punts but yet they're forced to. Most players (like Pendles who can't nail a set shot to save himself) can kick the drop punt round corners and into bins when there's no pressure on....but in the heat of battle they struggle to hit the "sweet spot" on the ball kicking a drop punt. A good old ugly flat punt gives them twice as much ball to hit and its deadly straight from inside 30m....

Memories of Peter Hudson came flooding back when reading this. He kicked a few back in the day using the flat punt.

 

[Robroy22]

I’m 100% on the same page, but you’re looking at the greats of the past through rose coloured glasses, IMO.

The 5-6 blokes you named were some of the most skilful guys to ever play the game, but even the best of them, plugger, only went at a tick under 70%. Most of them were low 60’s which is slightly above the league average when rushed behinds are taken into account. This will blow your mind, but Buddy has a better conversion rate than Quinlan. Including OOF would change that though.

My two cents is that anyone that struggles like Pendles should consider using the flat punt within 30-40 of goal.

Not trying to be a nit picker here BUT the stats you're quoting (and I've seen them before and laughed) HAVE to be skewed simply because stats on goal kicking: point kicking didn't exist until the mid 70's when Barrassi wanted to challenge his players. They always kept note of the goals kicked but points weren't seen as relevant stats. If clubs kept these sorts of stats privately the VFL never published them and I struggle to see where the stats suddenly appeared from in the naughties?

I'm assuming Sco that you went to as many Collingwood games as I did in the 70's and 80's (I won't go into goal kicking prior to that!) but if McKenna missed 2 shots in the same game he was seen to be "having a bad day". I did see him kick 4 points once at Vicci Park BUT he'd kicked 16 goals in the same game so I sort've excused him.

Hudson kicked a point when he was on 150 goals in the 1971 Gf but he was concussed at the time so again, we excused him!
Lockett kicked the most important point in the Prelim final against Essendon but he hardly ever missed!

Now I take your point that I have mentioned champs from the past....but that's my assertion. WHERE are the Champs of TODAY that kick the drop punt and do it with the accuracy from set shots that Lockett, Dunstall, Hudson, Lloyd, Daicos, McKenna, Roach, Blethyn, Jezza and Moncrief had? They DON'T EXIST....why?

 

[Robroy22]

Memories of Peter Hudson came flooding back when reading this. He kicked a few back in the day using the flat punt.

Just a few eh?

 

[Nuffsaid]

Not trying to be a nit picker here BUT the stats you're quoting (and I've seen them before and laughed) HAVE to be skewed simply because stats on goal kicking: point kicking didn't exist until the mid 70's when Barrassi wanted to challenge his players. They always kept note of the goals kicked but points weren't seen as relevant stats. If clubs kept these sorts of stats privately the VFL never published them and I struggle to see where the stats suddenly appeared from in the naughties?

I'm assuming Sco that you went to as many Collingwood games as I did in the 70's and 80's (I won't go into goal kicking prior to that!) but if McKenna missed 2 shots in the same game he was seen to be "having a bad day". I did see him kick 4 points once at Vicci Park BUT he'd kicked 16 goals in the same game so I sort've excused him.

Hudson kicked a point when he was on 150 goals in the 1971 Gf but he was concussed at the time so again, we excused him!
Lockett kicked the most important point in the Prelim final against Essendon but he hardly ever missed!

Now I take your point that I have mentioned champs from the past....but that's my assertion. WHERE are the Champs of TODAY that kick the drop punt and do it with the accuracy from set shots that Lockett, Dunstall, Hudson, Lloyd, Daicos, McKenna, Roach, Blethyn, Jezza and Moncrief had? They DON'T EXIST....why?

Not sure any of those blokes clocked up 12+ km a game in transition running so in fairness they were a tad fresher in the legs.
While I don’t completely disagree - the game is different. There was only one man regularly kicking dribbles from the boundary at that point - now there are dozens.

 

[Quicky]

Nah mate, but when players COULD kick a variety of kicks (and used both sides) they didn't seem to have the yips like players do today. Not all players are suited to kicking drop punts but yet they're forced to. Most players (like Pendles who can't nail a set shot to save himself) can kick the drop punt round corners and into bins when there's no pressure on....but in the heat of battle they struggle to hit the "sweet spot" on the ball kicking a drop punt. A good old ugly flat punt gives them twice as much ball to hit and its deadly straight from inside 30m....

What's a flat punt? Is it a kind of Gaelic style horizontal ball drop?

 

[NeverWobble]

Last time I kicked a goal in anger I was wearing mid-ankle leather boots with laces and screw-ins. I have sometimes wondered if the modern boot has something to answer for as far as kicking goes. Then again the old boots didn't help me much either.

 

[NeverWobble]

What's a flat punt? Is it a kind of Gaelic style horizontal ball drop?

Where the pointy ends of the ball and seams are virtually vertical to the ground for a drop punt, the pointy ends of the ball and seams are virtually horizontal to the ground for the flat punt and unlike the torpedo punt are not angled but pointing straight at your target.

 

[Mukesh]

Nah mate, but when players COULD kick a variety of kicks (and used both sides) they didn't seem to have the yips like players do today. Not all players are suited to kicking drop punts but yet they're forced to. Most players (like Pendles who can't nail a set shot to save himself) can kick the drop punt round corners and into bins when there's no pressure on....but in the heat of battle they struggle to hit the "sweet spot" on the ball kicking a drop punt. A good old ugly flat punt gives them twice as much ball to hit and its deadly straight from inside 30m....

And it may be just my imagination but the balls these days seem much skinnier with a smaller sweet spot..

 

[Finnishpie]

I got there when the boys were starting to come out on the ground, it was about 9:40am. With a 10am start, I imagine. There wasn't much of a crowd, justa few people as I imagine not everyone knew we would be training today. It is also the only training session they have this week, given we're playing on thursday.

They started warming up, then Kevin White called them together and suddenly there was a big cheer. This turns out to be because Dunn is playing in a VFL practice match this weekend. His first physical game since his injury, so of course it was a big occasion.
They then got into the program.

Taylor Adams was doing work with the main group, just not participating in the game style sim they initiated. But other than that, he was pretty active in everything. I imagine once he is allowed to play, he will be fit and ready to go.
Will Kelly, WHE, Nathan Murphy doing a running program on the side. While everyone else was participating in other football training. Even Shaz was doing some stuff with the football during the match stuff.

I imagine they were working on intercept to fix that up before thursday. They also practice their goal kicking accuracy, as we know that was needed from last week's game.

Training lasted a bit over an hour. Once most have gone inside, a few stayed out for a little longer to work on some things, including Cox, Wells, Broomy and Grundy.

Thanks Jen. How's Broomy looking? Is he close to playing do you reckon?

 

[DaVe86]

I’m 100% on the same page, but you’re looking at the greats of the past through rose coloured glasses, IMO.

The 5-6 blokes you named were some of the most skilful guys to ever play the game, but even the best of them, plugger, only went at a tick under 70%. Most of them were low 60’s which is slightly above the league average when rushed behinds are taken into account. This will blow your mind, but Buddy has a better conversion rate than Quinlan. Including OOF would change that though.

My two cents is that anyone that struggles like Pendles should consider using the flat punt within 30-40 of goal.

I actually think players should look at Paul Medhurst's technique for kicking when you are 30 metres out.

He used to hold the ball completely vertical. It looked like how you teach your child to kick when they first pick up a football. He would drop the ball very straight onto his boot.

Then he would kick the ball very high. There was no penetration in his kick. It was a totally simple technique. However, I reckon a lot of players make mistakes by trying to kick through the ball too much, or trying to kick across their body. Kicking it straight and high took out a lot of the risk elements.

It only works when you are 30 out, on a slight angle and there is little wind. Once you add distance, angle and weather, then you need more penetration in the kick.

But for your simple set shots, a few steps, followed by a very straight ball drop, and trying to kick it nice and high used to work really well for Medhurst.

 

[frizzle]

I actually think players should look at Paul Medhurst's technique for kicking when you are 30 metres out.

He used to hold the ball completely vertical. It looked like how you teach your child to kick when they first pick up a football. He would drop the ball very straight onto his boot.

Then he would kick the ball very high. There was no penetration in his kick. It was a totally simple technique. However, I reckon a lot of players make mistakes by trying to kick through the ball too much, or trying to kick across their body. Kicking it straight and high took out a lot of the risk elements.

It only works when you are 30 out, on a slight angle and there is little wind. Once you add distance, angle and weather, then you need more penetration in the kick.

But for your simple set shots, a few steps, followed by a very straight ball drop, and trying to kick it nice and high used to work really well for Medhurst.

Watch half the players techniques & you can see why they miss so much. Right footers veer to the right on their approach & left footers veer to the left so often nowadays.
They also pivot time & time again on the planted foot when kicking for goal. They open up so many ways to stuff things up.
Walk straight at the target & make sure your leg is kicking straight up & not across your body. Don't pivot or slide on the support leg.
KISS = "Keep It Simple Stupid".

 

[jackcass]

Yep, Richmond will of watched that replay a lot and their defenders will of been roasted about how they handled Cox, I'm expecting them to put a lot of attention into him.. He could get a lot of frees.

That'll be the interesting aspect. He did seem to get a couple against the Cats that appeared contrary to the 2018 norm and there has been some discussion off-season about it.

 

[jackcass]

What's a flat punt? Is it a kind of Gaelic style horizontal ball drop?

I thought it was rhyming slang to describe a big bloke who is not very nice.

 

[jackcass]

Last time I kicked a goal in anger I was wearing mid-ankle leather boots with laces and screw-ins. I have sometimes wondered if the modern boot has something to answer for as far as kicking goes. Then again the old boots didn't help me much either.

Memories of the old white diamonds come flooding back.

 

[Copeland]

According to some (one) on here you aren’t a real supporter.
Unless your bum is on a seat at the G, you don’t qualify!

They are welcome to their opinion, most wont agree.

 

[Copeland]

I actually think players should look at Paul Medhurst's technique for kicking when you are 30 metres out.

He used to hold the ball completely vertical. It looked like how you teach your child to kick when they first pick up a football. He would drop the ball very straight onto his boot.

Then he would kick the ball very high. There was no penetration in his kick. It was a totally simple technique. However, I reckon a lot of players make mistakes by trying to kick through the ball too much, or trying to kick across their body. Kicking it straight and high took out a lot of the risk elements.

It only works when you are 30 out, on a slight angle and there is little wind. Once you add distance, angle and weather, then you need more penetration in the kick.

But for your simple set shots, a few steps, followed by a very straight ball drop, and trying to kick it nice and high used to work really well for Medhurst.

Thats the only way I can do a drop punt, lol

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I actually think players should look at Paul Medhurst's technique for kicking when you are 30 metres out.

He used to hold the ball completely vertical. It looked like how you teach your child to kick when they first pick up a football. He would drop the ball very straight onto his boot.

Then he would kick the ball very high. There was no penetration in his kick. It was a totally simple technique. However, I reckon a lot of players make mistakes by trying to kick through the ball too much, or trying to kick across their body. Kicking it straight and high took out a lot of the risk elements.

It only works when you are 30 out, on a slight angle and there is little wind. Once you add distance, angle and weather, then you need more penetration in the kick.

But for your simple set shots, a few steps, followed by a very straight ball drop, and trying to kick it nice and high used to work really well for Medhurst.

Even looking at Mason Cox from the shorter range.

His technique just looks so basic.
Very simple very “soft” kick so to speak.
He doesn’t get distance nor height for that matter, but seems usually quite accurate.

Simple does it.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

For old timers Peter Hudson flat punts just went straight.

Tony Lockett also simple classical kicking.

Quinlan just looked poetic.

Doug Wade used to torpedo punt close in; I’ve heard him talk about it, he said it would just go straight through, slice the goals.

(Separately for distance passing nobody kicked better than Nathan Buckley.)

 

[Darkyprotector]

My late father practised handball like polly , kicked stab passes both feet 30 meters at 55

Learnt his skills playing in lane ways with a paper ball

Would play before school , after school

His mates were better

You had to be tough , resilient and skilled

These days better conditions, full time training , dietician and all the support you need but

The skills are deplorable
The umpiring s worse

The following 10 players would make the current crop look very ordinary

Robert flower
Barry price
Bary cable
Bobby skilton
Robert Harvey
Nathan Buckley
Len Thompson
Kevin Bartlett
Doug Hawkins
PHIL carmen

And that's just of the top of my head

All would be better if playing today