Are the Bombers and the Power in the same position right now?

[AwwThatsApples]

The outside Port thread has fallen into the depths of the thread ocean, but from some of the answers I remember it seems like Port Adelaide's current problems are shared with that of Essendon, some of these problems may include:

• More B grade players than A grade players in the list
• A grade players sometimes performing at a lower level
• Weaker old players compared to the more exciting young guys
• Lack of strong leaders to help guide the younger players
• A midfield that doesn't have any elite level players that can clear the ball cleanly
• Functional forward structure (FFS) and quality forwards of all sizes (And injured key forwards)
• Lots of flexible run in the defence but a big lack of physicality in 1 on 1s
• Certain players of quality potentially wanting to leave
• Their best football is top 4 worthy, but their worst football is horrendous
• Neither clubs are performing up to fan expectations

It's somewhat of a surface level comparison, but I feel like there are enough similarities here to indicate that maybe these clubs share near-identical lists quality and diversity wise, and perhaps if is the case both teams could use the same solution. I'm not sure if this is what other people are seeing though.

 

[Power Raid]

a fair comparison.

Port are in a world of trouble at the moment, stuck in gear mediocrity. Personally I feel Port are 1/3 of the way through a Richmond like period of the infamous 9th mond. Just 20 more years to go.

 

[eth-dog]

We're not going great guns, but I'd disagree on a couple of points for us:

1. I would argue that Merrett is an excellent midfielder that has very clean disposal.
2. We have quality forwards (Stringer, Fantasia, Daniher and Walla are all quality) it's just that two of them can't stay on the park.

The first match back was a step in the right direction thankfully, it was high octane, full of defensive pressure and more about trapping the ball inside 50 rather than the slingshot from half back style we've done for the last few years.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

We're not going great guns, but I'd disagree on a couple of points for us:

1. I would argue that Merrett is an excellent midfielder that has very clean disposal.
2. We have quality forwards (Stringer, Fantasia, Daniher and Walla are all quality) it's just that two of them can't stay on the park.

The first match back was a step in the right direction thankfully, it was high octane, full of defensive pressure and more about trapping the ball inside 50 rather than the slingshot from half-back style we've done for the last few years.

I would say the same thing about Boak as you did with Merrett. I'm confident that both those players would work well in an elite team, but they alone can't carry an entire midfield, they're not leaders, and that's probably why they both lost their respective leadership roles. It's more about the other players pulling their weight, Shiel and Rocky get a lot of the ball, but Shiel needs a better boot, and Rocky is mostly just a fantasy pig, gets plenty of it, but doesn't have enough direct impact on the game. I don't mind either of those players either, but they're just not elite, and that's what I mean. The midfield is solid, but they're not the best, and the Magpies, Eagles, Lions, Dogs and Giants are probably the top 5 in the comp for mids, hence why in the r21 Bulldogs game and r22 Kangaroos game both teams went missing, because their midfield was outpaced, badly, not to mention the lack of physicality on the defence. Both games pretty much played out in the same way for me, and the only thing that took the Bombers into the finals over Port was their ability to win close games.

 

[eth-dog]

I would say the same thing about Boak as you did with Merrett. I'm confident that both those players would work well in an elite team, but they alone can't carry an entire midfield, they're not leaders, and that's probably why they both lost their respective leadership roles. It's more about the other players pulling their weight, Shiel and Rocky get a lot of the ball, but Shiel needs a better boot, and Rocky is mostly just a fantasy pig, gets plenty of it, but doesn't have enough direct impact on the game. I don't mind either of those players either, but they're just not elite, and that's what I mean. The midfield is solid, but they're not the best, and the Magpies, Eagles, Lions, Dogs and Giants are probably the top 5 in the comp for mids, hence why in the r21 Bulldogs game and r22 Kangaroos game both teams went missing, because their midfield was outpaced, badly, not to mention the lack of physicality on the defence. Both games pretty much played out in the same way for me, and the only thing that took the Bombers into the finals over Port was their ability to win close games.

I think the issue with Essendon's midfield is mostly the lack of size. Our average weight is 81.4 kg and median is 83 kg, using the players listed under midfield on footywire. We have 5 players in there that are 86+ kg, Kyle Langford, who is hardly known for his physicality, Kobe Mutch who is widely considered to be the first player delisted this year, Tom Cutler, who is basically a genuine wing, Mitch Hibberd, who I rate but is hardly proven at AFL level and Dylan Clarke, who's disposal makes Matt Priddis look like Shannon Hurn.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

I think the issue with Essendon's midfield is mostly the lack of size. Our average weight is 81.4 kg and median is 83 kg, using the players listed under midfield on footywire. We have 5 players in there that are 86+ kg, Kyle Langford, who is hardly known for his physicality, Kobe Mutch who is widely considered to be the first player delisted this year, Tom Cutler, who is basically a genuine wing, Mitch Hibberd, who I rate but is hardly proven at AFL level and Dylan Clarke, who's disposal makes Matt Priddis look like Shannon Hurn.

Well I just checked and we've actually only got about 4 midfielders (Not wingmen) who weigh over 86kg. Housten is 88kg, and he's on his way to potentially becoming an elite tagger, Wines is 98kg, but he's taken a complete nose dive due to his injury record last year and his own personal discipline. Drew and Atley are both over 86kg, but they're fighting from the SANFL level, and it will be particularly hard for players at that level to fight for a game this year. However, just because players don't weigh too much doesn't mean they are generally fast. Boak isn't, and Rocky isn't either despite the fact that he's trying to lose weight. We don't have enough inside speed, and I guess in contrast the Bombers have too much?

 

[eth-dog]

Well I just checked and we've actually only got about 4 midfielders (Not wingmen) who weigh over 86kg. Housten is 88kg, and he's on his way to potentially becoming an elite tagger, Wines is 98kg, but he's taken a complete nose dive due to his injury record last year and his own personal discipline. Drew and Atley are both over 86kg, but they're fighting from the SANFL level, and it will be particularly hard for players at that level to fight for a game this year. However, just because players don't weigh too much doesn't mean they are generally fast. Boak isn't, and Rocky isn't either despite the fact that he's trying to lose weight. We don't have enough inside speed, and I guess in contrast the Bombers have too much?

Who in our midfield is quick? Cutler, Smith, Shiel, Ham. Us having a fast midfield is probably the biggest myth going around football. We have speed at either end (Redman, Saad, McKenna, McQuillan and Gleeson in defence, Snelling, Fantasia, Walla, Mozzie, Stewart forward) but our midfield isn't quick, nor does it have the running power that Port did circa 2014, or Hawthorn during their reign.

 

[Yojimbo]

The Outsiders:

Port Adelaide:
Ryan Burton, Wylie Buzza, Charlie Dixon, Brad Ebert, Scott Lycett, Sam Mayes,
Trent McKenzie, Steven Motlop, Tom Rockliff, Jack Watts.

Essendon:
Tom Cutler, Shaun McKernan, Andrew Phillips, Adam Saad, Dylan Shiel,
Devon Smith, James Stewart, Jake Stringer, Mitch Hibberd (R), Jacob Townsend (R).

Now on my ranking system both teams lists attract a lowly 5.5 out of ten, no need for anger
and vitriol though as I am a brutally tough marker. Both teams share a frailty of personnel
that leads to weakness in their game style, but so do most teams.

Correction Trade:
Essendon get Ollie Wines, Port Adelaide get Orazio Fantasia, but of course Dodo would
need a first rounder and throw in next years first as well.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Correction Trade:
Essendon get Ollie Wines, Port Adelaide get Orazio Fantasia, but of course Dodo would
need a first rounder and throw in next years first as well.

Nah. As we saw with Ryder, Port drive a hard bargain and are no fools at the trade table. We’d have to pay handsomely for a player like Wines.

If only every trade could be with the Bulldogs, throw them a bag of chips for their All Aust forward and after a week of pointless posturing, they bend over and take it, just like they were always going to

 

[eth-dog]

The Outsiders:

Port Adelaide:
Ryan Burton, Wylie Buzza, Charlie Dixon, Brad Ebert, Scott Lycett, Sam Mayes,
Trent McKenzie, Steven Motlop, Tom Rockliff, Jack Watts.

Essendon:
Tom Cutler, Shaun McKernan, Andrew Phillips, Adam Saad, Dylan Shiel,
Devon Smith, James Stewart, Jake Stringer, Mitch Hibberd (R), Jacob Townsend (R).

Now on my ranking system both teams lists attract a lowly 5.5 out of ten, no need for anger
and vitriol though as I am a brutally tough marker. Both teams share a frailty of personnel
that leads to weakness in their game style, but so do most teams.

Correction Trade:
Essendon get Ollie Wines, Port Adelaide get Orazio Fantasia, but of course Dodo would
need a first rounder and throw in next years first as well.

How is McKenzie still on a list?

Also lol. Someone's still bitter about the Stringer trade?

 

[Richo83]

IMO Port and Essendon are similar in quality, but their strengths and weaknesses are different.

Essendon's midfield is weak and one-dimensional. It's small and full of outside/inside hybrids who get beaten up by stronger and better midfields. Heppell, Smith, Shiels, Parish, Merrett and McGrath, all of them are either small or play small. None of them are known for their grit or hardness inside and are more outside types who have to play inside. Essendon's last genuine great inside midfielder was Watson. They're also too reliant on a forwardline built off talent that doesn't always fire. Need to build a team around structure and consistency as opposed to one guy getting hot.

Port's midfield is one-dimensional, in that it lacks class and polish to be able to finish off the good work done in the midfield. Statistically, they're a good clearance and contested possession team but their kicking is average. SPP, Boak, Wines, Rockliff are all too similar, meat-and-potatoes players who lack the class of elite midfielders. They rely on Gray too much as he's their best midfielder and best forward. Where do you play him? Wingard was a wildcard but he's left the building. Their spine is also overrated and lets them down.

The best midfields in the league are teams who can do it all. West Coast, Collingwood, Geelong, GWS, Richmond, their midfields are multi-dimensional. If they need to win a contest they can, if they need to blitz a team on the counterattack with precise kicking they can too. Essendon would do well to look for specifically an inside type bull that can battle with the likes of Kelly, Treloar, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Kelly, Martin etc. They're hard to find though. Port need elite kick outside types and also rebuild their spine.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Essendon's midfield is weak and one-dimensional. It's small and full of outside/inside hybrids who get beaten up by stronger and better midfields. Heppell, Smith, Shiels, Parish, Merrett and McGrath, all of them are either small or play small. None of them are known for their grit or hardness inside and are more outside types who have to play inside. Essendon's last genuine great inside midfielder was Watson. They're also too reliant on a forwardline built off talent that doesn't always fire. Need to build a team around structure and consistency as opposed to one guy getting hot.

Pretty much nailed Essendon’s problems in one paragraph.

 

[The Warlord]

I'd say Essendon are closer to the other Adelaide team in what holds them back - a club wide mindset.

Port have some genuine jets with their kids - Rozeee leading the way.

 

[Yojimbo]

Also lol. Someone's still bitter about the Stringer trade?

Not at all bitter, there was a lot more going on behind the scenes that will never come
out, the rumours of bullying and "Natural Nutella Sandwiches" placed in a certain well
paid players locker are as strong smelling as said sandwiches.

Wines for Fantasia, addresses key weaknesses for both teams.

 

[Great8]

Pretty much nailed Essendon’s problems in one paragraph.

Yep. Good assessment.
At the end of the day both Port and Essendon are just middling teams and neither are a genuine flag chance anytime soon

 

[TheBrightSide]

Both sides enjoy giving their supporters false hope by playing like champs one week, then bring them down to earth by playing like garbage the following week.
Lower expectations are probably wise.

 

[Ahsog]

Both sides at their best could trouble any team but they’re both very inconsistent. They also both lack star power in midfield.

Essendon are probably better positioned to challenge for a flag. Boak and Gray are on their last legs whereas Essendon’s best players are in the right age bracket.

 

[Papa G]

Not at all bitter, there was a lot more going on behind the scenes that will never come
out, the rumours of bullying and "Natural Nutella Sandwiches" placed in a certain well
paid players locker are as strong smelling as said sandwiches.

Wines for Fantasia, addresses key weaknesses for both teams.

Wines has his limitations, mainly his disposal, but I just don't see it being a straight swap not even taking into account contracts. Fantasia has kicked over 30 goals in a season once and without Brian Taylor I'm not sure too many would take all that much notice of him. Pound for pound Wine's value is much higher than Fanta seeya.

 

[eth-dog]

Wines is undoubtedly worth more than Fantasia, but I'd rather both and flipping whatever we get for Daniher over to Wines.

 

[Yojimbo]

Wines has his limitations, mainly his disposal, but I just don't see it being a straight swap not even taking into account contracts. Fantasia has kicked over 30 goals in a season once and without Brian Taylor I'm not sure too many would take all that much notice of him. Pound for pound Wine's value is much higher than Fanta seeya.

More of a what both clubs need rather than a trade value statement PG Essendon, a big
clearance king and Port, an x-factor zippy type. You are right Wines has probably done
more to date, but he has had a question mark over him since his Moomba masters
effort on the water skis that led to injury. Drafting Wines and then going a Powell-Pepper
type so soon after then trading in Rockliff does raise an eyebrow.

 

[Papa G]

More of a what both clubs need rather than a trade value statement PG Essendon, a big
clearance king and Port, an x-factor zippy type. You are right Wines has probably done
more to date, but he has had a question mark over him since his Moomba masters
effort on the water skis that led to injury. Drafting Wines and then going a Powell-Pepper
type so soon after then trading in Rockliff does raise an eyebrow.

Rockliff was the worst trade we ever did. Stat padding plodder on big money. Exactly what we didn't need.

 

[Red Bull]

Rockliff was the worst trade we ever did. Stat padding plodder on big money. Exactly what we didn't need.

Ken had his “crazy vossy” moment that year bringing in Rockliff, Watts and Motlop.
Whatever happened to Vossy ...

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

Yes both are s**t

 

[Upgrayedd]

I'd say Essendon are closer to the other Adelaide team in what holds them back - a club wide mindset.

Port have some genuine jets with their kids - Rozeee leading the way.

Agree. Port brought in some pretty exciting talent, Probably screwed themselves with the punt on a bunch of mature age talent, Not the absolute worse thing to do in their position but seem to be giving it one more go before phasing out some of the older generation

 

[Lsta062]

I’d also add North Melbourne to this group. All three teams can belt the best and then follow that up with a baffling loss.