Are we a development team?

[Babylove]

An interesting discussion on AFL 360, with Gerard Whately (apologies for spelling) saying a number of times he believes we are a development team. This weekend we are the 3rd youngest and the 2nd least experienced team to take the field, we have already used 37 players in 7 rounds (though some of that is through injury), we will have this weekend something like 8 or 9 players having played fewer than 25 games and the core of our list sits in the 0 - 100 games bracket.

Bucks also pointed out at the start of the week how short a time our team have been together especially when comparing against teams like West Coast and Hawthorn for whom the core of their list have been together for a number of years and played more than 100 games together.

Just wondered everyone's thoughts on this?

 

[spartan-magpie]

Add a firing Travis cloke (hope we get to see this again) a fit varcoe, Swan, Adams, Ramsay, Shaz, Williams and whoever else I can't think of and we become a much better side.

Also, once we figure out we press way to far up the ground and have to many at the contest with too few on the outside we also improve.

And if we can sort out a decent kick in strategy and Lear how to handbal we become even better again...

We should be doing much better than we are. Something has to give because we are massively underperforming.

 

[TradeDraft]

Well I say it is now as Chances of Making Finals are Slim.

BUT

The Club won't say that as they want us to think we are Competitive and We could win the Flag next season

 

[boxy99]

The club said they had a plan to push for a flag in 2017. So what went wrong in the last 3 years?

Going hard in trade period meant that what is happening now has taking the club by surprise and now it's back to drawing board. The rebuild is just starting if you ask me

 

[Matt_352]

Think we are still in the very early stages of a rebuild to be honest. I think our list has a ton of potential. But I think the rebuild is only just beginning tbh and the team needs the right direction.

 

[Kappa]

An interesting discussion on AFL 360, with Gerard Whately (apologies for spelling) saying a number of times he believes we are a development team. This weekend we are the 3rd youngest and the 2nd least experienced team to take the field, we have already used 37 players in 7 rounds (though some of that is through injury), we will have this weekend something like 8 or 9 players having played fewer than 25 games and the core of our list sits in the 0 - 100 games bracket.

Bucks also pointed out at the start of the week how short a time our team have been together especially when comparing against teams like West Coast and Hawthorn for whom the core of their list have been together for a number of years and played more than 100 games together.

Just wondered everyone's thoughts on this?

We've been called a "young" team without fail every single year since 2009

 

[jmac70]

We are a team in development but we should be performing a lot better than we are.

 

[peter9789]

The club said they had a plan to push for a flag in 2017. So what went wrong in the last 3 years?

Going hard in trade period meant that what is happening now has taking the club by surprise and now it's back to drawing board. The rebuild is just starting if you ask me

And Richmond said they would win 3 flags by 2020 .....LOL

I think the point is clubs will engage in talking up their list and potential to buoy the members regularly. But things can go astray very quickly as we have seen with Richmond, Collingwood, and Freo this year.

Sometimes not too much has to go wrong but throw in injuries to crucial players, confidence, lack of development, poor selection, coaching and game plans and a few early losses and suddenly the sky falls in and before you know it the season is done

 

[sirlothie]

An interesting discussion on AFL 360, with Gerard Whately (apologies for spelling) saying a number of times he believes we are a development team. This weekend we are the 3rd youngest and the 2nd least experienced team to take the field, we have already used 37 players in 7 rounds (though some of that is through injury), we will have this weekend something like 8 or 9 players having played fewer than 25 games and the core of our list sits in the 0 - 100 games bracket.

Bucks also pointed out at the start of the week how short a time our team have been together especially when comparing against teams like West Coast and Hawthorn for whom the core of their list have been together for a number of years and played more than 100 games together.

Just wondered everyone's thoughts on this?

That was very close to correct spelling actually!

 

[boxy99]

And Richmond said they would win 3 flags by 2020 .....LOL

I think the point is clubs will engage in talking up their list and potential to buoy the members regularly. But things can go astray very quickly as we have seen with Richmond, Collingwood, and Freo this year.

Sometimes not too much has to go wrong but throw in injuries to crucial players, confidence, lack of development, poor selection, coaching and game plans and a few early losses and suddenly the sky falls in and before you know it the season is done

They did more then just talking up the list. 2 years ago they said they had been working on a plan to be competing for a flag in 2017.

They were turning over the list at the end of 2012 which was earlier then expected to avoid bottoming out and having to do a full rebuild. Which right now looks to be a failure because it seems like the rebuild is just about to start

 

[Finnishpie]

An interesting discussion on AFL 360, with Gerard Whately (apologies for spelling) saying a number of times he believes we are a development team. This weekend we are the 3rd youngest and the 2nd least experienced team to take the field, we have already used 37 players in 7 rounds (though some of that is through injury), we will have this weekend something like 8 or 9 players having played fewer than 25 games and the core of our list sits in the 0 - 100 games bracket.

Bucks also pointed out at the start of the week how short a time our team have been together especially when comparing against teams like West Coast and Hawthorn for whom the core of their list have been together for a number of years and played more than 100 games together.

Just wondered everyone's thoughts on this?

Think it's happened by accident. We couldn't have predicted so many injuries or players out of form: Varcoe, Sharenburg, Ramsey, Cloke, Elliot, Swan, Williams, McCaffer, Brown, etc. So that's made us younger and more inexperienced than the club would have wanted.

So I think it's true but it's been partly forced on us.

 

[TradeDraft]

Think we are still in the very early stages of a rebuild to be honest. I think our list has a ton of potential. But I think the rebuild is only just beginning tbh and the team needs the right direction.

So Buck's Fixing the List ended up Stuffed the List Right Up?

 

[mattys123]

We are now, and it's not out design.

Bucks has mentioned a few times that we basically started this rebuild after the loss to Port in that final in 2013.

The problem is, we keep rebuilding, we keep bringing in youth.

The "target 2017" marketing campaign (which is what it was) from the club was really off by a mile.

The new coaching group next year though will take over a very good young base of a list, just that the senior group (27yo +) is mainly past their prime.

Target 2019 is more apt, and honest.

 

[boxy99]

We are now, and it's not out design.

Bucks has mentioned a few times that we basically started this rebuild after the loss to Port in that final in 2013.

The problem is, we keep rebuilding, we keep bringing in youth.

The "target 2017" marketing campaign (which is what it was) from the club was really off by a mile.

The new coaching group next year though will take over a very good young base of a list, just that the senior group (27yo +) is mainly past their prime.

Target 2019 is more apt, and honest.

As in new coaching group do you mean bucks or just his assistants?

 

[mattys123]

As in new coaching group do you mean bucks or just his assistants?

Either, if Bucks stays on he needs a whole group around him, from Balme down.

If he goes you clean the entire place out, up to and including Balme, and start again. And that includes the fitness staff and most of the development staff.

We need a fresh start, if we do decide to give Bucks one more year then he needs something new around him, something different.

If not then let the new coach design the whole football program from head to toe, in co-operation with the administration.

 

[pablo disco bar]

We need to bottom out and get a top 5 pick.......oh yeah treloar/golds

 

[TradeDraft]

We are now, and it's not out design.

Bucks has mentioned a few times that we basically started this rebuild after the loss to Port in that final in 2013.

The problem is, we keep rebuilding, we keep bringing in youth.

The "target 2017" marketing campaign (which is what it was) from the club was really off by a mile.

The new coaching group next year though will take over a very good young base of a list, just that the senior group (27yo +) is mainly past their prime.

Target 2019 is more apt, and honest.

Shows that we only have Pendles and Steele who are Guns who are in there Primes

 

[TradeDraft]

Either, if Bucks stays on he needs a whole group around him, from Balme down.

If he goes you clean the entire place out, up to and including Balme, and start again. And that includes the fitness staff and most of the development staff.

We need a fresh start, if we do decide to give Bucks one more year then he needs something new around him, something different.

If not then let the new coach design the whole football program from head to toe, in co-operation with the administration.

So would you Trade/Lose to FA Stars like Cloke and Brown to get more 1st Round Picks as well?

 

[boxy99]

Either, if Bucks stays on he needs a whole group around him, from Balme down.

If he goes you clean the entire place out, up to and including Balme, and start again. And that includes the fitness staff and most of the development staff.

We need a fresh start, if we do decide to give Bucks one more year then he needs something new around him, something different.

If not then let the new coach design the whole football program from head to toe, in co-operation with the administration.

If we go that far bucks needs to go.

I'd love to get rid of the collingwood out of collingwood!

 

[mattys123]

So would you Trade/Lose to FA Stars like Cloke and Brown to get more 1st Round Picks as well?

No, no no, no more first round bloody picks.

Sorry to go off at you, but enough kids.

It's time to stop developing, and time to start doing what North, Hawthron, the Swans and the Eagles do so well, top up.

Josh Daicos and Callum Brown should be the only kids brought into this club next year. Everyone else should be of a mature age ready to play senior football.

So maybe I would trade Cloke and Brown for round 1 picks, but I'd then on trade them for players in our required age group (20-26).

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

The club cannot keep hiding behind the we're in 'development' or 'rebuild' excuse to stop supporters from rightfully questioning what's going on the field and whether the likes of Bucks and the coaching group need to be fairly scrutinised for our poor performances.

I've been as patient as the next supporter and was willing to write off 2014 and 2015 as development years as it was evident that our rebuild started at the end of 2013, but in 2016 we should be at the next stage now and really starting to show signs of improvement, and that we're heading in the right direction at this club under Bucks and this playing group.

I don't expect us to win flags or be top four by any means at this stage, but I do expect to see a level of progress when it comes to a game plan that will work and see the club naturally progress and improve in the right direction.

I think there's huge potential for this playing group if they're playing a good brand football and are properly developed but I'm starting to lose serious faith that Bucks and his assistants can take these guys to the promised land. My faith in Bucks being a premiership coach with us has rapidly evaporated.

The club has made big statements in the last few years and haven't delivered. At the start of 2014, Gary Pert said that we'd be expecting a premiership within three years and it's not going to happen, and Bucks' contract at the time was extended to the end of 2016 to allow this process to happen.

Towards the end of 2014, Bucks made promises and assurances that we'd better in 2015/2016 after a disappointing 2014 fade out but we've actually regressed. I thought 2015 was a relatively good year for us barring two or three shocking performances but this year we've been diabolical in all our games barring the Essendon match.

For what it's worth, I've always seen our premiership window opening up towards the end of the decade rather than in 2017 as most allude to but there comes a point when you have to question whether we have the right people in charge to allow this to flourish. I don't think Bucks is the long-term solution to our coaching structure and I just think we're delaying the inevitable with him.

The club would only sack him if there's no going back and he's been a dismal failure otherwise any doubts or divided supporter bases regarding his credentials won't push the club to make a tough call unless there's a clear sense that the supporter base no longer believes he's the right man for the job.

As Mattys123 rightfully points out, our age profile seems to suggest our window won't be open for another 3 to 4 years rather than next year as the club and many supporters have excitedly believed in, but I think our push to our next window can be accelerated with the right people in charge of coaching and that's why I have grave doubts about Bucks' credentials.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

No, no no, no more first round bloody picks.

Sorry to go off at you, but enough kids.

It's time to stop developing, and time to start doing what North, Hawthron, the Swans and the Eagles do so well, top up.

Josh Daicos and Callum Brown should be the only kids brought into this club next year. Everyone else should be of a mature age ready to play senior football.

So maybe I would trade Cloke and Brown for round 1 picks, but I'd then on trade them for players in our required age group (20-26).

Cloke and Witts would be the obvious players to trade at seasons end. I think with the lack of experience in defence, we'll retain Brown.

 

[TradeDraft]

No, no no, no more first round bloody picks.

Sorry to go off at you, but enough kids.

It's time to stop developing, and time to start doing what North, Hawthron, the Swans and the Eagles do so well, top up.

Josh Daicos and Callum Brown should be the only kids brought into this club next year. Everyone else should be of a mature age ready to play senior football.

So maybe I would trade Cloke and Brown for round 1 picks, but I'd then on trade them for players in our required age group (20-26).

IF we are not going for Kids. Should we look at Players like Van Berlo who have a year or 2 Left and Be good Leadership for the Kids?

Should we of chased Adcock for Same Reason?

 

[left at home]

with the start we had and injuries, loss of form to some senior players we have been yet again forced
to go the youth path, so yes it seems like again, a development year.

 

[mattys123]

IF we are not going for Kids. Should we look at Players like Van Berlo who have a year or 2 Left and Be good Leadership for the Kids?

Should we of chased Adcock for Same Reason?

Nah, you only get those types if you are going for a premiership crack, which we aren't next year for sure.

So stick to the age bracket I mentioned, 20-26, GWS is a good starting point, as are the Suns, plenty of excess talent on those lists.