Article on Hawks draft strategy

[Bojangles17]

Put simply, to argue that good KPP are insignificant factors in the creation of a strong football side is embarrassing in the extreme.

Case closed.

Don't misquote cyber, Im referring to the strategy of rebuilding a side. My theory is that recent trends show that sides are built from the engine room first....without exception the sides that have shot up the ladder are those that have dynamic midfields with a load of options. Gone are the days that you start with a lockett type at FF and build a side around them....Good luck to you guys, dont take this as any more than a bit of off season banter...Im looking on with interest with how things unfold...

ps...... I know where your coming from that the swans shouldn't necessarily be a blueprint...although it does reinforce the ol saying ...a champion team will always...

 

[Slick]

Don't misquote cyber, Im referring to the strategy of rebuilding a side. My theory is that recent trends show that sides are built from the engine room first....without exception the sides that have shot up the ladder are those that have dynamic midfields with a load of options. Gone are the days that you start with a lockett type at FF and build a side around them....Good luck to you guys, dont take this as any more than a bit of off season banter...Im looking on with interest with how things unfold...

ps...... I know where your coming from that the swans shouldn't necessarily be a blueprint...although it does reinforce the ol saying ...a champion team will always...

Saints?

Reiwoldt, Gehrig, Penny, Maguire, Koschitzke, Hudghton, Hammill

Their midfeild, while it has stars such as Ball and Dal Santo, it has ageing players uch as Harvey, Thompson, Powell, etc

 

[Bojangles17]

Saints?

Reiwoldt, Gehrig, Penny, Maguire, Koschitzke, Hudghton, Hammill

Their midfeild, while it has stars such as Ball and Dal Santo, it has ageing players uch as Harvey, Thompson, Powell, etc

well thats a good point because twice now theyve failed to play in the big one....the argument could track any number of directions on why....their balance is pretty good between midfield and KPP...perhaps lack quality grunt especially in absence of Hamill, it all counts in September

 

[cs61]

Don't misquote cyber, Im referring to the strategy of rebuilding a side. My theory is that recent trends show that sides are built from the engine room first....without exception the sides that have shot up the ladder are those that have dynamic midfields with a load of options. Gone are the days that you start with a lockett type at FF and build a side around them....Good luck to you guys, dont take this as any more than a bit of off season banter...Im looking on with interest with how things unfold...

ps...... I know where your coming from that the swans shouldn't necessarily be a blueprint...although it does reinforce the ol saying ...a champion team will always...

You can't say that its built from the engine room first. Get your key posts in pace first and you'll see that the midfield suddenly looks 50% better.

If you start getting your structure right originally you'll see that everything else falls into place. Its not so easy to get the midfield right, then try to poach a few players to create a forward line. Bulldogs and West Coast would be that much more dangerous with key posts in place.

Of course teams are still built around a specific player. You take Johnathon Brown out of Brisbane, Tredrea out of Port, Richo out of Richmond, Llyod out of Essendon, Hall out of Sydney, Scarlett out of Geelong, Pavlich from Fremantle etc. etc. the side is weakened dramatically.

I would say it is very much still like the old days where sides are based around certain key players. Sure other elements are important for higher success, but the basis of a key player is still the way to go.

If West Coast had a player like those, I think you'd see them win the premiership without any trouble at all. But they don't and aren't dominating anywhere but in Perth where they can hurt teams more with their midfield.

 

[DynamoUltra]

Don't misquote cyber, Im referring to the strategy of rebuilding a side. My theory is that recent trends show that sides are built from the engine room first....without exception the sides that have shot up the ladder are those that have dynamic midfields with a load of options. Gone are the days that you start with a lockett type at FF and build a side around them....Good luck to you guys, dont take this as any more than a bit of off season banter...Im looking on with interest with how things unfold...

ps...... I know where your coming from that the swans shouldn't necessarily be a blueprint...although it does reinforce the ol saying ...a champion team will always...

Geelong have a pretty bloody good midfield, but they lack any sort of a spine other than Scarlett. How did they go?

Melbourne, too, have a pretty good midfield, but without Nietz and Robertson firing they struggle. When they do fire, the win comprehensively. Their backline is still suspect though.

Kangaroos, good midfield. ******** spine.

There's 3 cases off the top of my head. You can have a great midfield, but without forwards to kick to, you will struggle.

 

[CyberKev]

Don't misquote cyber, Im referring to the strategy of rebuilding a side. My theory is that recent trends show that sides are built from the engine room first....without exception the sides that have shot up the ladder are those that have dynamic midfields with a load of options.

Ideally, you'd build a side with a view to balance and be bringing in players across the park in adequate proportions. Of course, this sounds nice in theory, but it assumes all the players you draft/recruit will come on nicely, which doesn't transfer to reality.

I'm just trying to think of a side in the modern era that fired-up predominantly on the strength of midfield potency. Adelaide may be the closest, although they did have a very strong defence as well.

Gone are the days that you start with a lockett type at FF and build a side around them....Good luck to you guys, dont take this as any more than a bit of off season banter...Im looking on with interest with how things unfold...

I don't think it was ever as simple as that. Similarly, you couldn't just build a strong side around a sole quality midfielder like Voss. You really need a balanced squad.

Another problem you get under the draft system, is that young midfielders almost always look better than young talls (in terms of the elite players available) when these players are 17-18. Accordingly, if you firmly subscribe to the "draft the best player available" theory, then you'll constantly find yourself loading-up on midfielders and the balance of your side will go out the window.

This is why I'm skeptical of that supposed theory, and still believe that most sides will always recruit the best player (outside of pick 1) in terms of what that player can bring to team balance and structure.

In essence, with good recruiting you need to:

1) Look as much to the future as the present.
2) Always keep team balance and structure in mind.
3) Take educated punts on high ranking talls if you have high picks to work with.* Painfully few good talls arise from picks outside the first round.
4) Back your club to get the best out of the kids you choose.

*(If you have pick 1, however, and there is a clear standout who isn't a KPP tall, definitely take him)

With regard to the Saints falling in the past 2 preliminary finals...

It may be worth noting that the Kangaroos lost 3 in succession before breaking through for the flag in 1996.

It should also be kept in mind that the Saints are effectively about to enter year 6 of their current flag quest in 2006.

Brisbane spent 9 years building up to their first flag in 2001 (working from the arrival of players like Voss, Lappin, Aker & co; through the boost from the Fitzroy takeover; through to the extra cap incentives provided by the AFL)

Port Adelaide spent 8 years building to its breakthrough 2004 flag.

Sydney were also no overnight success, given the initial seeds for this flag were sewn in the late 90s, with the snaring of players like Hall, Barry, Williams, Ball & Goodes.

There seems to be a willingness around at the moment to harshly criticise sides (St Kilda, Bulldogs, Hawthorn) that are preferencing a youth-generated approach to climbing the table.

History tells us that contemporary flags commonly take many years to build toward, no matter how you prefer to go about the process.

No matter what, they're bloody hard to win and most sides, not surprisingly, do not win them.

The big challenge is to work your way into a regular top four position and hope that the planets align for you...

 

[Bojangles17]

I'm just trying to think of a side in the modern era that fired-up predominantly on the strength of midfield potency. Adelaide may be the closest, although they did have a very strong defence as well.




The big challenge is to work your way into a regular top four position and hope that the planets align for you...

pretty good argument cyber...WC have certainly shot up the ladder on the back of their midfield albeit havent won a flag as yet

and the last point is all too true , there is an element of luck in all of this, in terms of injuries and even the draw...which until there comes a time when all sides are played twice it will have a bias

 

[CyberKev]

pretty good argument cyber...WC have certainly shot up the ladder on the back of their midfield albeit havent won a flag as yet

West Coast have certainly risen primarily on the strength of their midfield, but the present side has been largely shaped around the massive list changes incorporated across 2000-2001. They'd also be around 5 years into their current flag chase.

and the last point is all too true , there is an element of luck in all of this, in terms of injuries and even the draw...which until there comes a time when all sides are played twice it will have a bias

Yes.

Unfortunately, for us to ever get an even draw with everyone playing each other twice, we will have to lose clubs from the competition.

Assuming, of course, that you can ever really get a genuinely even draw across the season.

During the course of any season clubs will get lucky by meeting sides struggling through injuries and/or poor form, while other clubs will meet such sides when they're fit and firing.

I guess you'd hope that fate evens things out over the long haul.

 

[Bojangles17]

Unfortunately, for us to ever get an even draw with everyone playing each other twice, we will have to lose clubs from the competition.

.

I really believe that we could play a 30 round comp...by adding flexibility to the list in allowing rookies to play and aborting the pre season comp it could be possible....

Many would argue there is a price in all of this...if it means removing the bias in the current draw then it should be supported.

 

[Spook]

pretty good argument cyber...WC have certainly shot up the ladder on the back of their midfield albeit havent won a flag as yet

and the last point is all too true , there is an element of luck in all of this, in terms of injuries and even the draw...which until there comes a time when all sides are played twice it will have a bias

Yep............I agree with the bias in the draw..............West Coast play Freo at home twice a year every year........Thats 2 wins before the season has even started