Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Total Power]

I have answered your questions ad nauseum; you have an insatiable appetite for impossible questions. You refuse to accept the Ten Commandments- it is all there. I am happy to accept them; you worry about them (hence the song). Being a Christian is liberating in that sense. I Don't stress about this dogma that bothers you. There is plenty of pain, particularly as we live even right now.

You have NOT answered my questions. My question is how is that we have free will if we can't choose our own deity? how is it that god expects us to repent to him orelse he will send us to hell? how is it that he creates us as sinners, yet he punishes us for sinning. You have replied in a typical fashion in saying he is 'graceful', but i have shown you there is no grace in killing people for sinning cause he created us as sinners apparently. So what exactly is graceful about killing people for a harmless 'freedom of choice' in choosing not to worship your deity? how does that qualify for death penalty including children who got nothing to do with it?

Regarding the 10 commandments, you know the popular saying, 'practice what you preach', if anyone is going to hell first, it's Moses.

A god who cares how you say his name. A god who wants you to have an entire day every week telling him how great he is. A god who is in his own words a jealous god visiting the iniquities of the fathers on the children for the third and fourth generation. A god who needs to be the center of attention all the time. Why are you better off following this particular deity? Cause of promise of heaven? amazing to say the least.

I have no interest in following such a deity to be honest, i have explained why religion is dangerous yesterday and as i said above, you can justify pretty much anything with those texts and you have done that repeatedly in this thread saying god is kind and merciful and your defense of rape and genocide being perfectly acceptable, cause they rejected your deity.

 

[Evolved1]

So stuff about different types of cloth woven together, or cutting off the hand of a woman who grabs you by the balls, these point to the coming of Jesus...kay.

It's evil to mix yellow and brown together on a football jumper. That's the gist of god's message.

 

[chelseacarlton]

This is a ridiculous quote. Very clearly, each of the Ten Commandments encompass more and condemn more than they seem to on their surface level. That this is true is undeniably shown in the Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of St. Matthew, in which Jesus explicates the deeper meaning of each commandment. God forbids not only murder in the fifth commandment, but any unjust killing. Further than that, however, He also forbids hating your neighbour, denying them comfort and support of body when necessary, and not assisting your neighbour when you can. Let's go through each point raised by Pollitt.

- War: See the doctrine of 'just war'. War, in itself, isn't inherently bad, if it is waged in the righteous defence of the weak and needy. Unjust violence in all forms is forbidden in the fifth commandment.

- Tyranny: If she means tyranny by violent oppression, the fifth commandment forbids it. If she meant government theft (no, not taxes) of property, the seventh commandment forbids it. I'm not entirely sure what she has in mind when she mentions "tyranny". If she had in mind a regime similar to that of the Kim Dynasty in North Korea, again, the fifth and seventh commandments forbid individual acts of sin, whether performed by government or person.

- Taking Over Other People's Countries: See war and tyranny. If taking over another's country unjustly by force, that is forbidden by the fifth and seventh commandments, respectively.

- Exploitation of workers: is forbidden by the seventh commandment. Again, she hasn't explicated exactly what she means by the phrase "exploitation of workers". Does she mean financial exploitation of workers? Clearly forbidden in Scripture: "Do not defraud or rob your neighbor. Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight". Does she mean unjustly over working them? "There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord."

- Cruelty to children: This is ridiculous. Obviously the Bible condemns cruelty to children: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." And "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." Also "Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged." Finally "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

- Wife beating: Again, the Bible is so clear on the role of a husband toward his wife. He is to love his wife as "Christ loved the church". In what way did Christ love the church? Permit me to argue from the standpoint the the Christian God exists. If so, and by His standard, He could've justly condemned all men. He did not have to show mercy, bu was compelled to do so due to His loving nature. Christ, rather than coming into the world to condemn the world, subjected Himself to His own creation, died at their hands, and all for the sake of justifying all sinners. So, husbands, if they love their wives, will not beat them. Clearly. It's a sin againt the fifth commandment. Husbands are to lovingly submit to their wives' desires and the serve them, and not act as boorish brutes toward them. She needs (if she is still alive) read all the parts of the Bible which address the role of husbands toward their wives.

- Stoning: God permits stoning as a form of capital punishment.

- Treating women...as inferior: Anyone who believes that the Bible permits a man to treat a woman as inferior has clearly not read the sections of the Bible that describe the manner in which men should behave around and toward women. Men are to submit to their wives in love (Eph. 5:21). Husbands are to lead their wives in sacrificial service, not in selfish power (Eph. 5:31). Men are to serve their wives, as Christ served humanity (Matt. 20:28). Men are to be humble toward women (Phil. 2:8-9). God forbids the objectification of women (Matt. 5:28-29).

In the Bible, women are a very special part of God's creation. The Hebrew for 'men' is a generic term. Similar to how we in English will often use the term 'man' or 'men' in a universal, gender-neutral manner; "all men have been redeemed by Christ". In Hebrew, the term for 'woman' is a special type of the generic 'man'. For example, all wines are wine. But only Barossa Valley wine is that special type of Barossa Valley wine. All soft-drinks are a form of sodas. Only Coke is that special type of soft drink, and as such, has a very specifc named attached to communicate as much. It is so with women. God demands men to protect and serve the women in their. Men are imbued with physical superior strength (generally) in order that, not that they would dominate women, but protect, defend and 'do the heavy lifting' for the women in their lives. Mary, beside Jesus, is the most respected and highly regard human being in the Bible.

All Bible quotes taken from the NIV, Zondervan Publishing House, 2011.

You seem to know more about gods will than god itself.
Why not just do it in the commandments like the meme suggests.
Everything you copy and pasted is just a bunch of excuses for your version of your particular creator myth/superstition.
He had ten ******* chances to say don’t * kids, don’t rape women, he didn’t!
In fact, he commands you to steal and rape kids from neighbouring tribes, try harder mate.
Less words, less copy pasta next time.

 

[chelseacarlton]

We have a God who has given us all free will. Clearly, we all prefer to have free will. Many on this board actually enjoy what Christians regard as sin.
Sin has its consequences, be in no doubt about that.
He has given us the Commandments to live by, and the grace to come to Him.
Grace= God's Riches At Christ's Expense.

We have a potato who has given us all free will.
Potato has given us the alternate commandments, 1st commandment “Don’t * kids”.
2nd commandment “Don’t rape anyone”.
3rd commandment “Don’t listen to the ******* psycho Yahweh, he doesn’t exist anyway”.
4th commandment “Don’t be a campaigner”, actually that was Jim Jeffries, he’s a bit of a potato worshipper I’m told!

 

[Vdubs]

You have NOT answered my questions. My question is how is that we have free will if we can't choose our own deity? how is it that god expects us to repent to him orelse he will send us to hell? how is it that he creates us as sinners, yet he punishes us for sinning. You have replied in a typical fashion in saying he is 'graceful', but i have shown you there is no grace in killing people for sinning cause he created us as sinners apparently. So what exactly is graceful about killing people for a harmless 'freedom of choice' in choosing not to worship your deity? how does that qualify for death penalty including children who got nothing to do with it?

Regarding the 10 commandments, you know the popular saying, 'practice what you preach', if anyone is going to hell first, it's Moses.

A god who cares how you say his name. A god who wants you to have an entire day every week telling him how great he is. A god who is in his own words a jealous god visiting the iniquities of the fathers on the children for the third and fourth generation. A god who needs to be the center of attention all the time. Why are you better off following this particular deity? Cause of promise of heaven? amazing to say the least.

I have no interest in following such a deity to be honest, i have explained why religion is dangerous yesterday and as i said above, you can justify pretty much anything with those texts and you have done that repeatedly in this thread saying god is kind and merciful and your defense of rape and genocide being perfectly acceptable, cause they rejected your deity.

You do not believe in God, correct?
So what is it to you if I do, and plenty of others do?
Why on earth are you so vehemently opposed to our beliefs?
You think you've had your eyes opened to it all.
So do I wrt Christianity.
We expect your type of circular opposition.
Nothing you argue lessens my faith.
Plenty of life experiences, even in the last 12 months- eg family deaths to -alzheimers, -melanoma; loss of employment; victim of abuse, all of that bis horrid, yet we remain faithful. We know that things like this are meant to happen in this fallen world, and NOBODY is immune or exempt.
To top it off, we lost another GF to Richmond...
If you don't acknowledge God exists, why stress about His commandments? Why stress about any of those issues you raised? They are all irrelevant to you.

 

[Total Power]

You do not believe in God, correct?
So what is it to you if I do, and plenty of others do?
Why on earth are you so vehemently opposed to our beliefs?
You think you've had your eyes opened to it all.
So do I wrt Christianity.
We expect your type of circular opposition.
Nothing you argue lessens my faith.
Plenty of life experiences, even in the last 12 months- eg family deaths to -alzheimers, -melanoma; loss of employment; victim of abuse, all of that bis horrid, yet we remain faithful. We know that things like this are meant to happen in this fallen world, and NOBODY is immune or exempt.
To top it off, we lost another GF to Richmond...
If you don't acknowledge God exists, why stress about His commandments? Why stress about any of those issues you raised? They are all irrelevant to you.

Yet again you don't answer my question. Can you stop beating around the bush and answer the questions i asked and not fill it up with irrelevant stuff i never asked? A wise man told me when they go to "god works in mysterious" or "you just need to have faith", that's when you just stop and walk away. You are playing chess with a pigeon. At that point as far as you are cornered, so the only way out is to claim that God is too complex for us to understand. Been there many times and been here again now. Absent decent evidence or good arguments, why should we believe something? "It makes me feel good", "because Tom told me Lord appeared in front of him" is not enough, since that doesn't speak to truth.

Considering that the history of religion is full of religious debates. Over miracles, interpretation of scripture, the nature of God, etc. I mean, believers have gone to war over theological differences. And even today there is an ever-proliferating tapestry of religious and sects and divisions, based on ever-finer theological disagreements. There is a lot of religious debate within churches, even as we speak.

Or did you just mean it is pointless specifically for non-believers to disagree with or criticize religion, and thus they should shut up and stop knocking your faith?

I think the mark of intelligence is being able to see new information, weigh that information and then, if warranted, change your mind. (See what i wrote below)

I was once religious, was presented with information that I did not consider previously, and changed my mind. (I guess I am calling myself intelligent. lol, didn't intend to, I'm average at best)

People that tend to be religious tend to be stubborn, or not open to new ideas. Perhaps they feel like a weak person if they change. But I see it the opposite way.

I will really tell you why i debate with your likes. You are a fool if you think i come here to change your mind. When i see bullshit i call it a bullshit.The point of debate for me to a Christian is not to win, it’s to become wiser. Rather than try to change another’s mind, I try to find where I should change my own. When I discover I hold a premise that isn’t factual, I discard it for another. Where I find I have an argument where the premises don’t support the conclusion, I stop using the argument altogether or create another. As I find these factual and logical errors, I admit them to the person I’m debating, saying the person made a good point ,I mean, the goal of debate is to help myself think better. I have changed my mind many times on bigfooty forum, but here, i see absolutely nothing which tells me i am wrong. No offence to you. I have been debating various stuff here, right wing left wing/religion/sports/movies/brexit/politcs/economics, plenty of times i have admitted i am wrong.

Anyway back on the topic you contradict yourself too often and i am just pointing it out. How is killing children cause their parents believed in different god(s) GRACEFUL...can you explain this to me? How is it free will when i am born/made a sinner yet get punished for a manufacturing defect if i don't repent? Your faith absolutely makes no sense and you are starting to stink up the joint with your reasoning (or lack of)

This is exactly why i said good people do good things, bad people do bad things and religious people do terrible things, cause you can justify ANYTHNG when you have faith. ANYTHING.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

We have a God who has given us all free will. Clearly, we all prefer to have free will. Many on this board actually enjoy what Christians regard as sin.

Then how come if I don't worship your god he will punish me by sending me to hell?

 

[Evolved1]

You do not believe in God, correct?
So what is it to you if I do, and plenty of others do?
Why on earth are you so vehemently opposed to our beliefs?
You think you've had your eyes opened to it all.
So do I wrt Christianity.
We expect your type of circular opposition.
Nothing you argue lessens my faith.
Plenty of life experiences, even in the last 12 months- eg family deaths to -alzheimers, -melanoma; loss of employment; victim of abuse, all of that bis horrid, yet we remain faithful. We know that things like this are meant to happen in this fallen world, and NOBODY is immune or exempt.
To top it off, we lost another GF to Richmond...
If you don't acknowledge God exists, why stress about His commandments? Why stress about any of those issues you raised? They are all irrelevant to you.

By the term "circular opposition," do you mean something like this:

 

[chelseacarlton]

If you don't acknowledge God exists, why stress about His commandments? Why stress about any of those issues you raised? They are all irrelevant to you.

Because your mob of delusional sycophants have taken over policy and law making in our country and need to be removed in favour of secular democracy, like our Constitution implies.
Fairly simple really, would you support a Muslim PM wanting to institute Islamic law in our country, it is the last of the Abrahamic revelations you know?

 

[Evolved1]

Because your mob of delusional sycophants have taken over policy and law making in our country and need to be removed in favour of secular democracy, like our Constitution implies.
Fairly simple really, would you support a Muslim PM wanting to institute Islamic law in our country, it is the last of the Abrahamic revelations you know?

Australian fundie Christians will only agree with you when they're outnumbered by Muslims.

 

[Corpuscles]

This is a ridiculous quote. Very clearly, each of the Ten Commandments encompass more and condemn more than they seem to on their surface level. That this is true is undeniably shown in the Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of St. Matthew, in which Jesus explicates the deeper meaning of each commandment. God forbids not only murder in the fifth commandment, but any unjust killing. ot despise one of these little ones. Finally "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."
...

All Bible quotes taken from the NIV, Zondervan Publishing House, 2011.

Since Vdubs brought up the so called ten commandments and you add to it.
Then I highly recommend that you both dust off your bibles and actually directly read the passages concerning it. (Also atheists too it is a laugh)
Have you ever done so? Or have you relied on the commonplace abbreviated , out of context religious dogma subsequently dreamed up concerning only parts of it? It is one of the most stupid parts of the whole bible, and there are lots of those!!!!

The relevant parts are starting with Exodus Ch 19 -22 and then importantly Ch 32. But of course you ought read the middle bits Ch23- 31 too if you can stomach that much contradiction and madness!

There are rules concerning (Hebrew- fellow Israelites!) slaves . One has to allow them freedom after 6 years but if they don't want to leave any wife & children behind they become slaves for life
There are rules for fighting with sticks and fists. There is payments described if injury happens to occur and death prescribed if a pregnant woman intercedes and miscarriages.
If you own an ox and it gores someone it must be put to death. If it has tried and failed but then subsequently manages it the owner ought be stoned to death too!
There are rules for when someone steals something! God is quite OK with stealing! (despite the so called main commandment) See C22 v1 onwards.
If you are caught you have to repay double or then becomes a slave. etc etc special rules for how to steal properly apply and the grades of restitution if caught doing it

There is a lot more hilarious contradictory rules that the so called (deemed) Creator of the Universe made up on Mt Sinai


All very interesting but the best bit is Ch 32 . The mythical Moses after talking to God ( a thunder cloud) and getting it to write down some rules it is not clear they were limited to only ten, you will see there was lots of silly rules made up! Mose then completely ignores those same but contradictory rules himself

Anyway these special stone tablet things are smashed. So much for reverence to his imaginary God

Then Moses demands that everyman kills his brother, his companion and neighbor because the people made a golden calf because the people didn't think Moses was coming back. They JUST LIKE CHRISTIANS TODAY need, must have, some form magic imaginary God to make themselves feel better and more secure .

Question
How come only 3000 were killed? ('Thou shalt not kill' - remember what Moses thought God wrote)
Does it mean most of the million or so (see book of Numbers for census details) didn't obey Moses and participate in the demand for slaughter?
Why was such killing permissible?

Amazingly you find that Moses brother Aaron the High Priest and the 2IC in the religious extortion racket , was the one who having heard the peoples grumbles, demanded the gold earrings of all the people to make the golden calf as a recommended solution! Interestingly the fictitious Moses of course was the FIRST religious leader hypocrite, and did not punish his own brother or demand him to be killed even though HE WAS specifically the main culprit!


Many civilizations (indeed atheist individuals too) have arrived at better morals and codes of behaviour , without complicating contradictory gibberish of the imaginary primitive Judaic / Christian God

Anyway, I do not deny your (anyone's ) right to your Christian or other religious fantasy. If it makes you a better happier person it is fine by me.
However, attempting to proselytize and insist the fantasy ought be followed by others, or indeed holds any logical rational basis in truth, is downright despicable.
More so, is the inherent implication that somehow you brainwashed "believer" phonies are superior (or somehow better off) on this planet and universe! ? It itself causes division and basis of more conflict and dissent.

Q Do you believe unbelievers will burn in a place called Hell? JC apparently did!

If you MUST for some reason answer questions, and enjoy them being asked here, then actually address them fully, honestly, without deceit and obfuscation.

 

[indoistriku]

Since Vdubs brought up the so called ten commandments and you add to it.
Then I highly recommend that you both dust off your bibles and actually directly read the passages concerning it. (Also atheists too it is a laugh)
Have you ever done so? Or have you relied on the commonplace abbreviated , out of context religious dogma subsequently dreamed up concerning only parts of it? It is one of the most stupid parts of the whole bible, and there are lots of those!!!!

Ignoring the condescension in the beginning of your reply, I'd like to state for the record that I've read the Bible in its enitrety (NIV). I finished a complete read-through in December. I read portions everyday (ESV), and when I'm married to my fiancee (God willing, this year, it was supposed to be last year) I will read it to her in its entirety (still deciding on which translation I'll read to her since English is not her first language, and I don't think she'll understand most translations).

The relevant parts are starting with Exodus Ch 19 -22 and then importantly Ch 32. But of course you ought read the middle bits Ch23- 31 too if you can stomach that much contradiction and madness!

Yes, and in Deuteronomy 5, and in Matthew 5-7, in which Christ gives an entire exegetical sermon on the meaning of the commandments.

There are rules concerning slaves . One has to allow them freedom after 6 years but if they don't want to leave any wife & children behind they become slaves for life
There are rules for fighting with sticks and fists. There is payments described if injury happens to occur and death prescribed if a pregnant woman intercedes and miscarriages.
If you own an ox and it gores someone it must be put to death. If it has tried and failed but then subsequently manages it the owner ought be stoned to death too!

Whilst I wouldn't articulate the commands in the same manner that you have, I agree with the essence of what you've written. I am aware of those things. They are not a part of the Ten Commandments. It is also worth noting, that 'the Ten Commandments' are actually are theological construct (a construct based in truth, however). There aren't actually ten commands. There are fourteen imperatives given by God in Exodus 20. But theologians have grouped some of the imperatives together to come away with Ten Commandments. For example, Catholics and Lutherans do not merge the two imperatives that forbid coveting. Commandment number nine for a Catholic or Lutheran reads 'Thou shalt nor covet thy neighbour's property,' and number ten reads 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is his'. Orthodox Christians, and other Prostestant groups do combine those imperatives into one commandment that in general forbids coveting.

There are rules for when someone steals something! God is quite OK with stealing! (despite the so called main commandment) See C22 v1 onwards.
If you are caught you have to repay double or then becomes a slave. etc etc special rules for how to steal properly apply and the grades of restitution if caught doing it

In what sense, when God makes a thief "repay double or...become a slave" do you think that God is "quite OK with stealing"? If God commands that the thief be punished, then quite clearly He is not OK with theft. There are no "special rules for how to steal properly"...perhaps you need to 'dust of the Bible' and read it again. Here is text, taken from the NKJV, for those who would like to read it for themselves:

“If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep. 2 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold[a] for his theft. 4 If the theft is certainly found alive in his hand, whether it is an ox or donkey or sheep, he shall restore double.

There is a lot more hilarious contradictory rules that the so called creator of the Universe made up on Mt Sinai

No, there aren't.

All very interesting but the best bit is Ch 32 . The mythical Moses after talking to God ( a thunder cloud) and getting it to write down some rules it is not clear they were limited to only ten, you will see there was lots of silly rules made up! Mose then completely ignores those same but contradictory rules himself

Exodus 32 is most famous for Moses returning from Mt. Sinai to find the Israelites worhiping a golden-calf. As I've mentioned, God no where actually states: "here are the Ten Commandments". There are fourteen imperatives. Could you provide examples of "lots of silly rules made-up"? I think you might be thinking of Exodus 34.

Anyway these special stone tablet things are smashed. So much for reverence to his imaginary God

Yes, it's always good for a laugh. This is a reasonable objection to the clarity and inerrancy of Scripture, and most people would read Exodus 34 thinking that there is a clear contradiction between the Ten Commandments as given in Exodus 20, and as given in Exodus 34. But there is a very reasonable explanation. After Moses breaks the tablets, God tells him to make two more tablets:

The Lord said to Moses, “Cut out two stone tablets like the first ones. On these tablets I will write the same words that were on the first tablets, which you broke.

Following that, God gives Moses a whole list of commandments, which are almost completely different to the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:

Be careful that you do not make a treaty with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will be a trap in your midst. 13 But you must break down their altars and smash their sacred memorial stones to pieces, and you must cut down their Asherah poles.[a] 14 So you must worship no other god. For the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.[b] 15 Do not make a treaty with the inhabitants of the land, so that they can prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods. If you do, they will invite you to eat their sacrifices, 16 and they will invite you to take their daughters as wives for your sons, and their daughters will prostitute themselves and make your sons prostitute themselves to their gods.

The confusion then appears in verses 27-29:

Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He did not eat any bread or drink any water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

It says "He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant...". The way in which this passage is written makes seem as though the antecedent "He" in "He wrote on the tablets..." refers to Moses. But Who was it that was to write on the tablets? God. Verse one explicitly states that God would write on the tablets the Ten Commandments. Regarding the other, new commandments given by God to Moses, God told Moses to "Write these words for yourself, for these are the words with which I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” So, Moses wrote the new commandments. God, Who is the subject of the confusing antecedent in verse 28, wrote the Ten Commandments, as they were given originally, on the tablets of stone. This is confirmed in Deuteronomy 10, in which Moses recounts the events:

So I made the ark out of acacia wood and chiseled out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hands. 4 The Lord wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain....

Question
How come only 3000 were killed? ('Thou shalt not kill' - remember what Moses thought God wrote)
Does it mean most of the million or so (see book of Numbers for census details) didn't obey Moses and participate in the demand for slaughter?
Why was such killing permissible?

My understading is that there were 603,550 Israelites at that time. About half the amount as you put forth. To answer your question, I don't know why only 3,000 were killed. 'Thou shalt no kill' is a command against murder, or any unjust killing, not against the righteous defense of the weak or even capital punishment.

Amazingly you find that Moses brother Aaron the High Priest and the 2IC in the religious extortion racket , was the one who having heard the peoples grumbles, demanded the gold earrings of all the people to make the golden calf as a recommended solution! Interestingly the fictitious Moses of course was the FIRST religious leader hypocrite, and did not punish his own brother or demand him to be killed even though the main culprit!

That doesn't make Moses a hypocrite. He pleaded to God for mercy toward his brother and all Israel. And Aaron, as well as all the Israelites, were punished qquite severly for their idolatry.

Anyway, I do not deny your (anyones ) right to your Christian or other religious fantasy. If it makes you a better happier person it is fine by me.
However, attempting to proselytize and insist the fantasy ought be followed by others, or indeed holds any logical rational basis in truth, is downright despicable.

Anyway, I do not deny your (anyones) right to your Swans or other sporting fantasy. If it makes you a better, happier person, it is fine by me. However, attemting to proselytise and insist the fantasy ought to be followed by others, or indeed holds any logical or rational basis in truth, is downright despicable.

More so, is the inherent implication that somehow you brainwashed "believer" phonies are superior on this planet and universe and cause division and basis of more dissent.

I think that you should talk to Christians in real life, and you will come to see that we don't, for the most part, believe ourselves to be superior. We believe ourselves to sinners in need of the absolution of Christ.

If you MUST for some reason answer questions and like them being asked here then actually address them fully honestly without deceit and obfuscation.

I hope that I have. And I don't 'have' to. I enjoy good-spirited theological debates. I don't answer some questions here because they aren't made in manner that I'd like to respond to, and sometimes I don't answer questions addressed to me because I just can't and need to learn more before I do answer them. I like to answer the questions that I believe that I can, even if they are challenging.

 

[indoistriku]

By the term "circular opposition," do you mean something like this:

View attachment 1039352

I understand how it can appear that way, and I believe that you have past experiences as a practising Christian, and perhaps this is the way the efficacy of the Bible was explained to you. But the efficacy of Scripture rests upon the prophecies made about the mediatoral salvation that was to be made by the Christ for the world. When Christ fulfills those prochecies, it then becomes a proof for the inerrancy and seriousness of the Old Testament canon. This is not the reasoning that should be employed by Christians for arguing for the inerrancy of Scripture.

You seem to know more about gods will than god itself.
Why not just do it in the commandments like the meme suggests.
Everything you copy and pasted is just a bunch of excuses for your version of your particular creator myth/superstition.
He had ten ******* chances to say don’t fu** kids, don’t rape women, he didn’t!
In fact, he commands you to steal and rape kids from neighbouring tribes, try harder mate.
Less words, less copy pasta next time.

I didn't copy anything, my post was entirely original. You shouldn't be so quick to make false accusations, without any evidence, against those whom you disagree with. Ironically, your initial meme wasn't original, but was a "copy pasta" (but sourced, to be clear).

In fact, he commands you to steal and rape kids from neighbouring tribes, try harder mate.

This is outrageously false. Show me one example where God commands child-rape. You can't. You're lying and it saddens me that your post received any, let alone multiple upvotes. Your statement is demonstrably false, easily disprovable and incredibly dumb. Are you even trying to have fair, honest discussion, or do you hate the idea of God so much that you're more than happy to spread baseless lies against the Bible and against Christians (me)? No need to answer, I already know. Stop lying and slandering.

Lies and insults, and nothing substantial. Maybe you should try harder, "mate".

 

[Vdubs]

Then how come if I don't worship your god he will punish me by sending me to hell?

says who?

 

[chelseacarlton]

I understand how it can appear that way, and I believe that you have past experiences as a practising Christian, and perhaps this is the way the efficacy of the Bible was explained to you. But the efficacy of Scripture rests upon the prophecies made about the mediatoral salvation that was to be made by the Christ for the world. When Christ fulfills those prochecies, it then becomes a proof for the inerrancy and seriousness of the Old Testament canon. This is not the reasoning that should be employed by Christians for arguing for the inerrancy of Scripture.



I didn't copy anything, my post was entirely original. You shouldn't be so quick to make false accusations, without any evidence, against those whom you disagree with. Ironically, your initial meme wasn't original, but was a "copy pasta" (but sourced, to be clear).



This is outrageously false. Show me one example where God commands child-rape. You can't. You're lying and it saddens me that your post received any, let alone multiple upvotes. Your statement is demonstrably false, easily disprovable and incredibly dumb. Are you even trying to have fair, honest discussion, or do you hate the idea of God so much that you're more than happy to spread baseless lies against the Bible and against Christians (me)? No need to answer, I already know. Stop lying and slandering.

Lies and insults, and nothing substantial. Maybe you should try harder, "mate".

Which version do you want of Numbers 31:17?
There’s a lot of versions of your version of gods unalterable word!

 

[Vdubs]

Yet again you don't answer my question. Can you stop beating around the bush and answer the questions i asked and not fill it up with irrelevant stuff i never asked? A wise man told me when they go to "god works in mysterious" or "you just need to have faith", that's when you just stop and walk away. You are playing chess with a pigeon. At that point as far as you are cornered, so the only way out is to claim that God is too complex for us to understand. Been there many times and been here again now. Absent decent evidence or good arguments, why should we believe something? "It makes me feel good", "because Tom told me Lord appeared in front of him" is not enough, since that doesn't speak to truth.

Considering that the history of religion is full of religious debates. Over miracles, interpretation of scripture, the nature of God, etc. I mean, believers have gone to war over theological differences. And even today there is an ever-proliferating tapestry of religious and sects and divisions, based on ever-finer theological disagreements. There is a lot of religious debate within churches, even as we speak.

Or did you just mean it is pointless specifically for non-believers to disagree with or criticize religion, and thus they should shut up and stop knocking your faith?

I think the mark of intelligence is being able to see new information, weigh that information and then, if warranted, change your mind. (See what i wrote below)

I was once religious, was presented with information that I did not consider previously, and changed my mind. (I guess I am calling myself intelligent. lol, didn't intend to, I'm average at best)

People that tend to be religious tend to be stubborn, or not open to new ideas. Perhaps they feel like a weak person if they change. But I see it the opposite way.

I will really tell you why i debate with your likes. You are a fool if you think i come here to change your mind. When i see bullshit i call it a bullshit.The point of debate for me to a Christian is not to win, it’s to become wiser. Rather than try to change another’s mind, I try to find where I should change my own. When I discover I hold a premise that isn’t factual, I discard it for another. Where I find I have an argument where the premises don’t support the conclusion, I stop using the argument altogether or create another. As I find these factual and logical errors, I admit them to the person I’m debating, saying the person made a good point ,I mean, the goal of debate is to help myself think better. I have changed my mind many times on bigfooty forum, but here, i see absolutely nothing which tells me i am wrong. No offence to you. I have been debating various stuff here, right wing left wing/religion/sports/movies/brexit/politcs/economics, plenty of times i have admitted i am wrong.

Anyway back on the topic you contradict yourself too often and i am just pointing it out. How is killing children cause their parents believed in different god(s) GRACEFUL...can you explain this to me? How is it free will when i am born/made a sinner yet get punished for a manufacturing defect if i don't repent? Your faith absolutely makes no sense and you are starting to stink up the joint with your reasoning (or lack of)

This is exactly why i said good people do good things, bad people do bad things and religious people do terrible things, cause you can justify ANYTHNG when you have faith. ANYTHING.

 

[Evolved1]

I understand how it can appear that way, and I believe that you have past experiences as a practising Christian, and perhaps this is the way the efficacy of the Bible was explained to you. But the efficacy of Scripture rests upon the prophecies made about the mediatoral salvation that was to be made by the Christ for the world. When Christ fulfills those prochecies, it then becomes a proof for the inerrancy and seriousness of the Old Testament canon. This is not the reasoning that should be employed by Christians for arguing for the inerrancy of Scripture.

What if the fulfillment of OT prophecy was a retrofit?

Matthew 21 tells you how it was done.

You'll find reasons if you want to believe. If you want the truth, who knows what you'll find.

 

[chelseacarlton]

You don't mean verse 17, you mean 18, which doesn't command child rape. Still a baseless accusation on your part.

Wow you sure did get me there, forgot to include /18 in my haste to make you look like a lying christian.
“Keep the virgins for yourselves”, and do tell why they would be doing that?
For mucking out the stables or mucking around with the virgins in the stables?
Let your online apologetics knowledge go to work son, I doubt you’ll add anything I haven’t encountered before from Jews and Christians alike!
Got anything to add?

 

[Evolved1]

This is outrageously false. Show me one example where God commands child-rape. You can't. You're lying and it saddens me that your post received any, let alone multiple upvotes. Your statement is demonstrably false, easily disprovable and incredibly dumb. Are you even trying to have fair, honest discussion, or do you hate the idea of God so much that you're more than happy to spread baseless lies against the Bible and against Christians (me)? No need to answer, I already know. Stop lying and slandering.

Take a different angle. I've spent my past 5 minutes modernising Numbers 31:1-11 (NKJV) with an Islamic slant.

Allah spoke to Mohammed, saying: “Take vengeance on the Americans for the children of Ishmael. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.”

So Mohammed spoke to the people, saying, “Arm some of yourselves for war, and let them go against the Americans to take vengeance for Allah on 9/11. A thousand from each tribe of all the tribes of the Arab nations you shall send to the war.”

So there were recruited from the divisions of the Arab nations one thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. Then Mohammed sent them to the war, one thousand from each tribe; he sent them to the war with the Great Satan, with the holy articles and the box cutters in his hand. And they warred against the USA, just as Allah commanded Mohammed, and they killed all the males. They killed the kings of the US with the rest of those who were killed—Trump, Pence, GWB, and all Christian televangelists. Trump jnr, the son of the Donald they also killed with covid19.

And the children of Ishmael took the Christian women captive, with their little girls, and took as spoil all their stocks, all their pets, and all their homes. They also burned with fire all the cities where they dwelt, and all their bridges.

Allahu Akbar!

 

[Evolved1]

Wow you sure did get me there, forgot to include /18 in my haste to make you look like a lying christian.
“Keep the virgins for yourselves”, and do tell why they would be doing that?
For mucking out the stables or mucking around with the virgins in the stables?
Let your online apologetics knowledge go to work son, I doubt you’ll add anything I haven’t encountered before from Jews and Christians alike!
Got anything to add?

******* virgins is horrible.

 

[Evolved1]

If you're going to post Total Power's post in full without a single amendment, please mention him as a reference. Thanks

 

[Corpuscles]

Thank you for the reply

="indoistriku, post: 68488359, member: 206064"
Ignoring the condescension in the beginning of your reply, I'd like to state for the record that I've read the Bible in its enitrety (NIV). I finished a complete read-through in December. I read portions everyday (ESV), and when I'm married to my fiancee (God willing, this year, it was supposed to be last year) I will read it to her in its entirety (still deciding on which translation I'll read to her since English is not her first language, and I don't think she'll understand most translations).

Personally as a inconsequential internet stranger, I wish you all the best in your hoped nuptials.

However, YOU THINK, the bible is the inspired decree of the creator of the universe? Yes or No?
Except you do not like parts of it.
It says Cor 6:14 " Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? "
The nutty Paul (no not McCartney) says he would prefer you stay unattached .

I see the bliss of you trying to read the whole thing again to her. Tip maybe there is a translation available in her native language?

Yes, and in Deuteronomy 5, and in Matthew 5-7, in which Christ gives an entire exegetical sermon on the meaning of the commandments.

It makes absolutely no reference to any ten (or 14) commandments?


Whilst I wouldn't articulate the commands in the same manner that you have, I agree with the essence of what you've written. I am aware of those things. They are not a part of the Ten Commandments. It is also worth noting, that 'the Ten Commandments' are actually are theological construct (a construct based in truth, however). There aren't actually ten commands. There are fourteen imperatives given by God in Exodus 20. But theologians have grouped some of the imperatives together to come away with Ten Commandments. For example, Catholics and Lutherans do not merge the two imperatives that forbid coveting. Commandment number nine for a Catholic or Lutheran reads 'Thou shalt nor covet thy neighbour's property,' and number ten reads 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is his'. Orthodox Christians, and other Prostestant groups do combine those imperatives into one commandment that in general forbids coveting.

Yes I agree nowhere is the words "ten commandments" used.




In what sense, when God makes a thief "repay double or...become a slave" do you think that God is "quite OK with stealing"? If God commands that the thief be punished, then quite clearly He is not OK with theft. There are no "special rules for how to steal properly"...perhaps you need to 'dust of the Bible' and read it again. Here is text, taken from the NKJV, for those who would like to read it for themselves:

IT (the various primitive ancient writers) has commanded there is to be no COVETING or stealing or coveting or pinching.
Then seemingly realises that is not going to happen so IT prescribes lengthy diatribe of what should happen when it occurs.

It would be like if I am your boss at work and I say if you turn up late for work , I will sack you! However then say but when you do, you will have punishment (eg to work x number of hours on a Saturday and mow my lawn when you do.)
You accept the designer of the Universe thinks like that? LOL!





No, there aren't.

There are lots but you glean over them in your exuberance to read it but not take it in.

One example of thousands: If you root (sex) with a virgin not betrothed ( like you prolly have with your fiancé? Maybe maybe not? no facts this end) then you must marry and give up a "the dowry of virgins" marry her!.
BUT If potential father in law says no, you still have to pay up! Then you are free to go on elsewhere. ..... and root (sex) another one!



Exodus 32 is most famous for Moses returning from Mt. Sinai to find the Israelites worhiping a golden-calf. As I've mentioned, God no where actually states: "here are the Ten Commandments". There are fourteen imperatives. Could you provide examples of "lots of silly rules made-up"? I think you might be thinking of Exodus 34.

Read it again. Slowly ( to your missus in Swahili or other) if that helps?
It won't because you preconcieve this is God talking to you in some ancient cobbled together gathering of books?

Yes, it's always good for a laugh. This is a reasonable objection to the clarity and inerrancy of Scripture, and most people would read Exodus 34 thinking that there is a clear contradiction between the Ten Commandments as given in Exodus 20, and as given in Exodus 34. But there is a very reasonable explanation. After Moses breaks the tablets, God tells him to make two more tablets:

What is the reasonable explanation?

Following that, God gives Moses a whole list of commandments, which are almost completely different to the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:


LOL! I suppose if you have been around for over 13 billion Earth years or maybe forever(?) then perhaps a bit of dementia is to be expected?
What language does God write in? Perhaps that is the version you should read to your fiancé?


The confusion then appears in verses 27-29:



It says "He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant...". The way in which this passage is written makes seem as though the antecedent "He" in "He wrote on the tablets..." refers to Moses. But Who was it that was to write on the tablets? God. Verse one explicitly states that God would write on the tablets the Ten Commandments. Regarding the other, new commandments given by God to Moses, God told Moses to "Write these words for yourself, for these are the words with which I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” So, Moses wrote the new commandments. God, Who is the subject of the confusing antecedent in verse 28, wrote the Ten Commandments, as they were given originally, on the tablets of stone. This is confirmed in Deuteronomy 10, in which Moses recounts the events:

Apparently he got the shits after Moses broke the first set and ordered Moses write the different replacement himself !

Nowhere is "ten commandments " specifically referred to. It is a religious fiction.
You agree? apparently Lutherans claim 14 imperatives?




My understading is that there were 603,550 Israelites at that time. About half the amount as you put forth. To answer your question, I don't know why only 3,000 were killed. 'Thou shalt no kill' is a command against murder, or any unjust killing, not against the righteous defense of the weak or even capital punishment.

It the census concerns adult males only. Not women nor children.

The fictitious turkey Moses had not come back from the mountain. He had only just been told about the no other Gods thing. So the fictitous Israelites where not informed of the new rules nor even the High Priest Aaron who suggested the golden calf.

The new rules were not successfully delivered
So it was not "capital punishment" it WAS unjustified hot tempered in a rage MURDER! Relax it is only a make up story



That doesn't make Moses a hypocrite. He pleaded to God for mercy toward his brother and all Israel. And Aaron, as well as all the Israelites, were punished qquite severly for their idolatry.

But ordered the death of brothers companions and neighbors !
But excluded the main culprit?

No wonder Christians turn out such hypocrites.



Anyway, I do not deny your (anyones) right to your Swans or other sporting fantasy. If it makes you a better, happier person, it is fine by me. However, attemting to proselytise and insist the fantasy ought to be followed by others, or indeed holds any logical or rational basis in truth, is downright despicable.

Only the true elect follow the Swans and we expect and forgive completely that others do not get it and incapable of understanding such!
Especially Dockers LOL fans



I think that you should talk to Christians in real life, and you will come to see that we don't, for the most part, believe ourselves to be superior. We believe ourselves to sinners in need of the absolution of Christ.


OK Billions would not believe you but I DO!
You are a dirty rotten sinner! Agreed.



I hope that I have. And I don't 'have' to. I enjoy good-spirited theological debates. I don't answer some questions here because they aren't made in manner that I'd like to respond to, and sometimes I don't answer questions addressed to me because I just can't and need to learn more before I do answer them. I like to answer the questions that I believe that I can, even if they are challenging.

I will leave you to your fantasy. I just thought I ought make some attempt at reply.

Yours (posting here) is a valuable insight for all into the incurable 'mind set' that religious fanatics cling to.
It is belief nothing more there no substance or evidence. However the most disturbing part is you do not even understand the impact of the bit of passed down gossip and 'hand me down ' musings on which it is all based (THE BIBLE) and have to resort to excuses for it's stupidity
Then don't even do what it says anyway!


I will try not to bother you. Wishing you all the VERY BEST in life.

 

[Evolved1]

Thank you for the reply

="indoistriku, post: 68488359, member: 206064"
Ignoring the condescension in the beginning of your reply, I'd like to state for the record that I've read the Bible in its enitrety (NIV). I finished a complete read-through in December. I read portions everyday (ESV), and when I'm married to my fiancee (God willing, this year, it was supposed to be last year) I will read it to her in its entirety (still deciding on which translation I'll read to her since English is not her first language, and I don't think she'll understand most translations).

Personally as a inconsequential internet stranger, I wish you all the best in your hoped nuptials.

However, YOU THINK, the bible is the inspired decree of the creator of the universe? Yes or No?
Except you do not like parts of it.
It says Cor 6:14 " Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? "
The nutty Paul (no not McCartney) says he would prefer you stay unattached .

I see the bliss of you trying to read the whole thing again to her. Tip maybe there is a translation available in her native language?

Yes, and in Deuteronomy 5, and in Matthew 5-7, in which Christ gives an entire exegetical sermon on the meaning of the commandments.

It makes absolutely no reference to any ten (or 14) commandments?


Whilst I wouldn't articulate the commands in the same manner that you have, I agree with the essence of what you've written. I am aware of those things. They are not a part of the Ten Commandments. It is also worth noting, that 'the Ten Commandments' are actually are theological construct (a construct based in truth, however). There aren't actually ten commands. There are fourteen imperatives given by God in Exodus 20. But theologians have grouped some of the imperatives together to come away with Ten Commandments. For example, Catholics and Lutherans do not merge the two imperatives that forbid coveting. Commandment number nine for a Catholic or Lutheran reads 'Thou shalt nor covet thy neighbour's property,' and number ten reads 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is his'. Orthodox Christians, and other Prostestant groups do combine those imperatives into one commandment that in general forbids coveting.

Yes I agree nowhere is the words "ten commandments" used.




In what sense, when God makes a thief "repay double or...become a slave" do you think that God is "quite OK with stealing"? If God commands that the thief be punished, then quite clearly He is not OK with theft. There are no "special rules for how to steal properly"...perhaps you need to 'dust of the Bible' and read it again. Here is text, taken from the NKJV, for those who would like to read it for themselves:

IT (the various primitive ancient writers) has commanded there is to be no COVETING or stealing or coveting or pinching.
Then seemingly realises that is not going to happen so IT prescribes lengthy diatribe of what should happen when it occurs.

It would be like if I am your boss at work and I say if you turn up late for work , I will sack you! However then say but when you do, you will have eg to work x number of hours on a Saturday and mow my lawn when you do. The designer of the Universe thinks like that? LOL!





No, there aren't.

There are lots but you glean over them in your exuberance to read it but not take it in.

One example of thousands: If you root (sex) with a virgin not betrothed ( like you prolly have with your fiancé? Maybe maybe not? no facts this end) then you must give marry and give up a "the dowry of virgins" and marry her. If he says no you still have to pay up! Then you are free to go on elsewhere.



Exodus 32 is most famous for Moses returning from Mt. Sinai to find the Israelites worhiping a golden-calf. As I've mentioned, God no where actually states: "here are the Ten Commandments". There are fourteen imperatives. Could you provide examples of "lots of silly rules made-up"? I think you might be thinking of Exodus 34.

Read it again. Slowly ( to your missus in Swahili or other) if that helps?
It won't because you preconcieve this is God talking to you in some ancient cobbled together gathering of books?

Yes, it's always good for a laugh. This is a reasonable objection to the clarity and inerrancy of Scripture, and most people would read Exodus 34 thinking that there is a clear contradiction between the Ten Commandments as given in Exodus 20, and as given in Exodus 34. But there is a very reasonable explanation. After Moses breaks the tablets, God tells him to make two more tablets:

What is the reasonable explanation?

Following that, God gives Moses a whole list of commandments, which are almost completely different to the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:


LOL! I suppose if you have been around for over 13 billion Earth years or maybe forever(?) then perhaps a bit of dementia is to be expected?
What language does God write in? Perhaps that is the version you should read to your fiancé?


The confusion then appears in verses 27-29:



It says "He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant...". The way in which this passage is written makes seem as though the antecedent "He" in "He wrote on the tablets..." refers to Moses. But Who was it that was to write on the tablets? God. Verse one explicitly states that God would write on the tablets the Ten Commandments. Regarding the other, new commandments given by God to Moses, God told Moses to "Write these words for yourself, for these are the words with which I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” So, Moses wrote the new commandments. God, Who is the subject of the confusing antecedent in verse 28, wrote the Ten Commandments, as they were given originally, on the tablets of stone. This is confirmed in Deuteronomy 10, in which Moses recounts the events:

Apparently he got the shits after Moses broke the first set and ordered Moses write the different replacement himself !

Nowhere is "ten commandments " specifically referred to. It is a religious fiction.
You agree? apparently Lutherans claim 14 imperatives?




My understading is that there were 603,550 Israelites at that time. About half the amount as you put forth. To answer your question, I don't know why only 3,000 were killed. 'Thou shalt no kill' is a command against murder, or any unjust killing, not against the righteous defense of the weak or even capital punishment.

It the census concerns adult males only. Not women nor children.

The fictitious turkey Moses had not come back from the mountain. He had only just been told about the no other Gods thing. So the fictitous Israelites where not informed of the new rules nor even the High Priest Aaron who suggested the golden calf. So it was not capital punishment it WAS unjustified MURDER!



That doesn't make Moses a hypocrite. He pleaded to God for mercy toward his brother and all Israel. And Aaron, as well as all the Israelites, were punished qquite severly for their idolatry.

But ordered the death of brothers companions and neighbors !
But excluded the main culprit?

No wonder Christians turn out such hypocrites.



Anyway, I do not deny your (anyones) right to your Swans or other sporting fantasy. If it makes you a better, happier person, it is fine by me. However, attemting to proselytise and insist the fantasy ought to be followed by others, or indeed holds any logical or rational basis in truth, is downright despicable.

Only the true elect follow the Swans and we expect and forgive completely that others do not get it and incapable of understanding such!
Especially Dockers LOL fans



I think that you should talk to Christians in real life, and you will come to see that we don't, for the most part, believe ourselves to be superior. We believe ourselves to sinners in need of the absolution of Christ.


OK Billions would not believe you but I DO!
You are a dirty rotten sinner! Agreed.



I hope that I have. And I don't 'have' to. I enjoy good-spirited theological debates. I don't answer some questions here because they aren't made in manner that I'd like to respond to, and sometimes I don't answer questions addressed to me because I just can't and need to learn more before I do answer them. I like to answer the questions that I believe that I can, even if they are challenging.

I will leave you to your fantasy. I just thought I ought make some attempt at reply.

Yours (posting here) is a valuable insight for all into the incurable 'mind set' that religious fanatics cling to.
It is belief nothing more there no substance or evidence. However the most disturbing part is you do not even understand the impact of the bit of passed down gossip and 'hand me down ' musings on which it is all based (THE BIBLE) and have to resort to excuses for it's stupidity
Then don't even do what it says anyway!


I will try not to bother you. Wishing you all the VERY BEST in life.

I still remember the time you told me that my private education was a waste of money.

* you, campaigner.

You were right, but still. * you.

 

[Corpuscles]

I still remember the time you told me that my private education was a waste of money.

fu** you, campaigner.

You were right, but still. fu** you.

You have again clearly demonstrated (yourself above ) the truth of the statement!

Blessings and bliss be upon you (poor dear creature)!

 

[Evolved1]

You have again clearly demonstrated (yourself above ) the truth of the statement!

Blessings and bliss be upon you (poor dear creature)!

As I often tell shopping center spruikers and religious nutjobs, I don't speak English. If they knock on my door, I respect them enough to wear boxer shorts when I tell them that I do not speak ******* English.

The space in the highlighted portion of your post is giving me the shits. From an ethical perspective, it's not quite as bad as supporting Carlton or putting shaved ******* ham on pizza. I only eat pizza that's bald because I have some ******* standards!

I'll forgive you because you're a faithful follower of the one true AFL team. <rant over>