Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Total Power]

Thanks for your concern, but I have all the evidence of the REALITY of Jesus that I need for my lifetime. Not into conspiracy theories. Btw, Jesus specialised in sinners- that's who He came for- that is stated over and over. All sorts. Don't know what you've been getting into, but YOU HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT of Jesus' ministry.

*Facepalm*

I am not asking about whether Jebus came in your life and gave you a handjob, i am asking you to address my questions and arguments. Is it too hard to understand? I do not care what you believe in, i am only interested in debating the Bible, not about your life.

I just explained to you where the concept of Sin in genesis came from. it's a widely accepted fact that Genesis is not real. Jesus specialised in stuff stolen from other myths and wasn't aware of it?? lol. Very Godly indeed.

What conspiracy theory? Bible is not a historical document, none of it is considering historically accurate. Eusebius openly advocated the use of fraud and deception in furthering the interests of the Church. The first mention of Jesus by Josephus came from Eusebius (none of the earlier church fathers mention Josephus’ Jesus).

Eusebius wrote about “how it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.”

These are the church fathers, don't believe in me, believe in what they have said. Eusebius made up Josephus quote you realise that? He was the first one EVER to mention Jebus. That was a fabrication.

So there was this God on earth, but none bother to mention him or write about him? Think, VD, for once! THINK! Eusebius was first one to mention Jesus and then came the quote.

Hmmmm?.

 

[Vdubs]

*Facepalm*

I am not asking about whether Jebus came in your life and gave you a handjob, i am asking you to address my questions and arguments. Is it too hard to understand? I do not care what you believe in, i am only interested in debating the Bible, not about your life.

I just explained to you where the concept of Sin in genesis came from. it's a widely accepted fact that Genesis is not real. Jesus specialised in stuff stolen from other myths and wasn't aware of it?? lol. Very Godly indeed.

What conspiracy theory? Bible is not a historical document, none of it is considering historically accurate. Eusebius openly advocated the use of fraud and deception in furthering the interests of the Church. The first mention of Jesus by Josephus came from Eusebius (none of the earlier church fathers mention Josephus’ Jesus).

Eusebius wrote about “how it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.”

These are the church fathers, don't believe in me, believe in what they have said. Eusebius made up Josephus quote you realise that? He was the first one EVER to mention Jebus. That was a fabrication.

So there was this God on earth, but none bother to mention him or write about him? Think, VD, for once! THINK! Eusebius was first one to mention Jesus and then came the quote.

Hmmmm?.

You can debate the Bible with anyone, not me. I am not interested in your style of debate. Amen.

 

[Total Power]

You can debate the Bible with anyone, not me. I am not interested in your style of debate. Amen.

There is no Christianitiy without the Bible, your belief and the source of your belief is Dodgy and almost entirely fabricated.

Since no one else has mentioned Jebus outside of the Bible, that's all you are left with.

I told you a 100 times here, a Muslim, a Hindu a Christian would make the same claims about their god and they will be equally as good to them. It makes absolutely no sense for anyone rational (doesn't include your types) to buy into such rubbish.

Why don't you buy into miracles in other religions then? Mohammed existed atleast, unlikely Jebus of NT. I assume your answer is 'i will believe what i wish to'

thanks for wasting my time then, i have no desire to engage with irritational brainwashed muppets.

 

[Number37]

Yes, you're taking a similar line to TP. I get the inherent contradiction but maintain that we have no alternative but to always strive to start from a standpoint of the rational. Otherwise it's open slather for every demagogue and con merchant.

I don't disagree with you on the broad idea.

For mine, what's rational hasn't always been the same throughout the ages. That is to say that what's rational is temporal.

For example: Before we learned that the Earth was round-ish, it was perfectly rational to think it was flat.

 

[Vdubs]

There is no Christianitiy without the Bible, your belief and the source of your belief is Dodgy and almost entirely fabricated.

Since no one else has mentioned Jebus outside of the Bible, that's all you are left with.

I told you a 100 times here, a Muslim, a Hindu a Christian would make the same claims about their god and they will be equally as good to them. It makes absolutely no sense for anyone rational (doesn't include your types) to buy into such rubbish.

Why don't you buy into miracles in other religions then? Mohammed existed atleast, unlikely Jebus of NT. I assume your answer is 'i will believe what i wish to'

thanks for wasting my time then, i have no desire to engage with irritational brainwashed muppets.

When you disrespectfully can't even spell the person of discussion properly, you certainly don't deserve any debate. Jesus is real. I lose absolutely nothing by having faith in Him. You lose everything if He is. Your choice. No need to feel threatened by that, it is only the truth from my pov, and in your eyes, I am nothing.

 

[Total Power]

When you disrespectfully can't even spell the person of discussion properly, you certainly don't deserve any debate. Jesus is real. I lose absolutely nothing by having faith in Him. You lose everything if He is. Your choice. No need to feel threatened by that, it is only the truth from my pov, and in your eyes, I am nothing.

Why stop there? why not believe in Allah? Shiva? Thor? Baal? what you got to lose? your reasoning is false equivalence and pretty much can be destroyed without an argument even. I do not feel threatened by something that does not exist, i have posted my reason why, your inability to argue and defend the Bible showed me that i am right. I have debated with many heavyweights even (and no offense to you but you are not even a lightweight here) and they were all forced to conceded Bible is at best 'inspired' by other myths.

The crux of the matter is, you do not believe in miracles from other religion cause it doesn't serve your purpose, why? cause you don't believe in them right? see the reasoning. Why stop at one God, why not believe Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse? what you got to lose? there's more witness' to that than Jebus being a zombie, which basically was a made up tale from a fraud like Paul, which one is more believable?

 

[Evolved1]

I don't disagree with you on the broad idea.

For mine, what's rational hasn't always been the same throughout the ages. That is to say that what's rational is temporal.

For example: Before we learned that the Earth was round-ish, it was perfectly rational to think it was flat.

You seem to be fumbling about in an attempt to muddy the waters.

As our knowledge base progresses, it's rational to change your views in line with new evidence. Phenomena that were once thought to be caused by god have been explained by science. The rest are unexplained for now, but there's no reason to think that goddidit is a reasonable conclusion. Since there's no objective evidence for Christianity or any other form of sky pixie, atheism is the only rational religious position.

 

[Total Power]

You seem to be fumbling about in an attempt to muddy the waters.

As our knowledge base progresses, it's rational to change your views in line with new evidence. Phenomena that were once thought to be caused by god have been explained by science. The rest are unexplained for now, but there's no reason to think that goddidit is a reasonable conclusion. Since there's no objective evidence for Christianity or any other form of sky pixie, atheism is the only rational religious position.

While i do agree with you bro, partly, mathematics is never rational. The axioms are often assumed without rational thoughts and are assumed to be true. The very basis of M-theory is unobserved phenomena like the speed of light in vacuum. Then you have string theories, multiverse hypothesis etc. None of them are rational, yet people are completely ok talking about these but when consciousness is mentioned they cry murder.

Still Christof Koch Intergrated Information Theory was radical step in theorizing consciousness being non-local. It has a long way to go but it was a radical step that went against scientific consensus about consciousness and now it's the leading theory of consciousness worldwide.

This is true that religion does not prove or disprove God, but we haven't defined what God is first. Atheism cannot be a rational position since to be rational you need to be agnostic in all positions and we cannot be since we all have bias. Christians peddle Christianity, Muslim Peddle Islam, Hindus peddle their theories, Buddhists peddle there's, they all can't be right, but that is simply their 'point of view', just like an atheist sees of all this and decides 'it's all bullshit'.

If you read Clifford's paper on belief and sufficient evidence. He basically says it's wrong to believe anything without sufficient evidence. However, sufficient evidence is left to the believer. It's not just a belief in God, it's believing in anything at all. If you have sufficient evidence, it's fine. The hard thing is understanding what constitutes sufficient evidence or not.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I don't disagree with you on the broad idea.

For mine, what's rational hasn't always been the same throughout the ages. That is to say that what's rational is temporal.

For example: Before we learned that the Earth was round-ish, it was perfectly rational to think it was flat.

Bit by bit, our knowledge increases.

And in recent centuries, scientific enquiry and the principle of repeatable experiments has proved a lot of stuff beyond doubt.

We'll never know everything, but we're already at a point where a lot of things we know are provably so. And that is ongoing and increasing.

As I keep saying, the only alternative to elevating objective truths wherever possible, is putting the human race in the hands of hucksters and fastbucks operators.

 

[Number37]

You seem to be fumbling about in an attempt to muddy the waters.

As our knowledge base progresses, it's rational to change your views in line with new evidence. Phenomena that were once thought to be caused by god have been explained by science. The rest are unexplained for now, but there's no reason to think that goddidit is a reasonable conclusion. Since there's no objective evidence for Christianity or any other form of sky pixie, atheism is the only rational religious position.

I do not know WTF you are on about, I never once said anything was explained by God, Mary Poppins, the Tooth Fairy or Dave Grohl.
Aside from that nonsense, what you wrote sounds like you were agreeing with what I said about the temporal nature of what is rational.

Atheism as a religion is no different to any other religion... Belief in something that explains stuff.
Atheism suffers from the same shortcoming that afflicts any other religion, regardless of what Atheists bleat.

Before all the Atheists start bleating, at some point some punk is going to have prove that something came from nothing.

 

[Number37]

Bit by bit, our knowledge increases.

And in recent centuries, scientific enquiry and the principle of repeatable experiments has proved a lot of stuff beyond doubt.

We'll never know everything, but we're already at a point where a lot of things we know are provably so. And that is ongoing and increasing.

As I keep saying, the only alternative to elevating objective truths wherever possible, is putting the human race in the hands of hucksters and fastbucks operators.

I think that you are, almost conveniently, ignoring a very important aspect of why people gravitate to religious beliefs.
I am not talking about scripture.
I am talking about the truly unexplainable stuff. There is enough of the truly unexplainable stuff that people fill the gap with religious belief.
IMO filling the gap with religious belief is no different to filling the gap with belief/hope/whatever you want to call it in science/logic/reason eventually providing an explanation.

 

[Footy Time]

I think that you are, almost conveniently, ignoring a very important aspect of why people gravitate to religious beliefs.

Weak people want something to believe in and others are scared of death, that's why many people gravitate towards religion (in the West at least). These numbers are dwindling in highly educated Western countries though. There's also a trend towards astrology with the younger generation, mostly females, which is just as bullshit as religion.

But be thankful we live in Australia because in a number of Islamic countries in the Middle East and Africa, you don't have a choice. You are born a Muslim and if you leave Islam, you can be arrested or even killed.

 

[Evolved1]

I do not know WTF you are on about, I never once said anything was explained by God, Mary Poppins, the Tooth Fairy or Dave Grohl.
Aside from that nonsense, what you wrote sounds like you were agreeing with what I said about the temporal nature of what is rational.

Atheism as a religion is no different to any other religion... Belief in something that explains stuff.
Atheism suffers from the same shortcoming that afflicts any other religion, regardless of what Atheists bleat.

Before all the Atheists start bleating, at some point some punk is going to have prove that something came from nothing.

Atheism is a religion like baldness is a hairstyle.

 

[Evolved1]

While i do agree with you bro, partly, mathematics is never rational. The axioms are often assumed without rational thoughts and are assumed to be true. The very basis of M-theory is unobserved phenomena like the speed of light in vacuum. Then you have string theories, multiverse hypothesis etc. None of them are rational, yet people are completely ok talking about these but when consciousness is mentioned they cry murder.

Still Christof Koch Intergrated Information Theory was radical step in theorizing consciousness being non-local. It has a long way to go but it was a radical step that went against scientific consensus about consciousness and now it's the leading theory of consciousness worldwide.

This is true that religion does not prove or disprove God, but we haven't defined what God is first. Atheism cannot be a rational position since to be rational you need to be agnostic in all positions and we cannot be since we all have bias. Christians peddle Christianity, Muslim Peddle Islam, Hindus peddle their theories, Buddhists peddle there's, they all can't be right, but that is simply their 'point of view', just like an atheist sees of all this and decides 'it's all bullshit'.

If you read Clifford's paper on belief and sufficient evidence. He basically says it's wrong to believe anything without sufficient evidence. However, sufficient evidence is left to the believer. It's not just a belief in God, it's believing in anything at all. If you have sufficient evidence, it's fine. The hard thing is understanding what constitutes sufficient evidence or not.

I view atheism as the absence of belief in deities, so it's consistent with agnosticism and ignosticism. It's also rational in it's most pure form.

The burden of proof lies with theists.

 

[Vdubs]

Atheism is a religion like baldness is a hairstyle.

Both are very true.

 

[Number37]

Weak people want something to believe in and others are scared of death, that's why many people gravitate towards religion (in the West at least). These numbers are dwindling in highly educated Western countries though. There's also a trend towards astrology with the younger generation, mostly females, which is just as bullshit as religion.

But be thankful we live in Australia because in a number of Islamic countries in the Middle East and Africa, you don't have a choice. You are born a Muslim and if you leave Islam, you can be arrested or even killed.

Wannabe tough guys are the ones that are the weakest and most scared of death. Most of them are so scared because they have abandonment issues relating to their mother.

Nazis, fascists, incels, reclaim Australia, freedom rallyers all fall into the wannabe tough guy category.
Do yourself a favour and don't listen to them, you'll either end up being someone's b!tch in prison or someone's b!tch in a clan.

 

[Evolved1]

Both are very true.

Atheism is the absence of religion. Baldness is the absence of hair. Christian is the absence of logic.

 

[Vdubs]

Why stop there? why not believe in Allah? Shiva? Thor? Baal? what you got to lose? your reasoning is false equivalence and pretty much can be destroyed without an argument even. I do not feel threatened by something that does not exist, i have posted my reason why, your inability to argue and defend the Bible showed me that i am right. I have debated with many heavyweights even (and no offense to you but you are not even a lightweight here) and they were all forced to conceded Bible is at best 'inspired' by other myths.

The crux of the matter is, you do not believe in miracles from other religion cause it doesn't serve your purpose, why? cause you don't believe in them right? see the reasoning. Why stop at one God, why not believe Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse? what you got to lose? there's more witness' to that than Jebus being a zombie, which basically was a made up tale from a fraud like Paul, which one is more believable?

Let me tell you again. THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.
That's language you use.
But the point is there.

 

[Vdubs]

Atheism is the absence of religion. Baldness is the absence of hair. Christian is the absence of logic.

Atheism is a belief.
Baldness is a fact.
Christianity is Life. Meaning. Purpose. The Way.

 

[Evolved1]

Wannabe tough guys are the ones that are the weakest and most scared of death. Most of them are so scared because they have abandonment issues relating to their mother.

Nazis, fascists, incels, reclaim Australia, freedom rallyers all fall into the wannabe tough guy category.
Do yourself a favour and don't listen to them, you'll either end up being someone's b!tch in prison or someone's b!tch in a clan.

 

[Number37]

Atheism is a religion like baldness is a hairstyle.

Indeed it is.
Once you go Atheist there is no turning back, just like baldness.
Unless you're Shane Warne, then you might as well double down with some plastic surgery every 6 months.

 

[Evolved1]

Atheism is a belief.

Belief in what?

Baldness is a fact.

So is evolution.

Christianity is Life.

Mate, you haven't had a win for 2000 years. Even Essendon have done better.

 

[Footy Time]

Wannabe tough guys are the ones that are the weakest and most scared of death. Most of them are so scared because they have abandonment issues relating to their mother.

Nazis, fascists, incels, reclaim Australia, freedom rallyers all fall into the wannabe tough guy category.
Do yourself a favour and don't listen to them, you'll either end up being someone's b!tch in prison or someone's b!tch in a clan.

What does any of that have to do with religion though?

 

[Evolved1]

Indeed it is.
Once you go Atheist there is no turning back, just like baldness.
Unless you're Shane Warne, then you might as well double down with some plastic surgery every 6 months.

Why anyone would choose religion after seeing the light of atheism is beyond me. Fairytales are for children and theists.

 

[Footy Time]

Indeed it is.
Once you go Atheist there is no turning back, just like baldness.
Unless you're Shane Warne, then you might as well double down with some plastic surgery every 6 months.

Where do atheists pray?