Training Training thread - news and live reports

[True North]

Thats a couple of indifferent reviews of EVW at training so far. Is he recovering from any post season Op?

Nope, he has probably been told that we are reverting to the Cunnington/Atley era where anybody under 21 is guaranteed 22 games regardless of form.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Nope, he has probably been told that we are reverting to the Cunnington/Atley era where anybody under 21 is guaranteed 22 games regardless of form.

I'm all for it if he and other under 21s finish top 5 in the Syd from 2018 onwards.

Atley 5th in B&F age 20
Cunnington won at 23 and was runner up at 24.

"Gifted games" - a NMFC board meme that never gets tired.

 

[Firestarter]

I'm all for it if he and other under 21s finish top 5 in the Syd from 2018 onwards.

Atley 5th in B&F age 20
Cunnington won at 23 and was runner up at 24.

"Gifted games" - a NMFC board meme that never gets tired.

It's become Memetic Mutation. [/tv tropes nerd]

 

[True North]

I'm all for it if he and other under 21s finish top 5 in the Syd from 2018 onwards.

Atley 5th in B&F age 20
Cunnington won at 23 and was runner up at 24.

"Gifted games" - a NMFC board meme that never gets tired.

Cunnington was atrocious until he was finally dropped. He went back to the Reserves, had one cracker and from memory a 2nd good game and then came back and looked significantly more at home. He showed 0 benefit from staying in the guts and getting crushed every week with no tank. It was appalling player management.

I'm not as familiar with Atley's early form (as in I wasn't mashing the keyboard demanding he be dropped).

My idea of successfully managing a group is rewarding performance. Pretty much what we did with Wagner and Clarke. Reward form and give them a solid 3-4 week go at the level, letting them know they have that block guaranteed. I'm not an advocate of 1 week in and then 1 out like the BS Maj has endured forever.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Cunnington was atrocious until he was finally dropped. He went back to the Reserves, had one cracker and from memory a 2nd good game and then came back and looked significantly more at home. He showed 0 benefit from staying in the guts and getting crushed every week with no tank. It was appalling player management.

I'm not as familiar with Atley's early form (as in I wasn't mashing the keyboard demanding he be dropped).

My idea of successfully managing a group is rewarding performance. Pretty much what we did with Wagner and Clarke. Reward form and give them a solid 3-4 week go at the level, letting them know they have that block guaranteed. I'm not an advocate of 1 week in and then 1 out like the BS Maj has endured forever.

"Appalling player management" that resulted in a win and a second in the B&F a couple of seasons later? Zero benefit? Really? You even make the point that he was dropped for 2 games when merited and came back better. Isn't that actually effective player management?

So what was your point - he should have been dropped earlier? Or again after coming back? I truly don't get what you think was appalling.

And perhaps you shouldn't have included Atley if you didn't know he finished 5th in the B&F in his second season. Or do you still maintain he shouldn't have been picked that year because he was 19?

I'm still inclined to conclude that your post was just another "gifted games" snipe that is contradicted by the facts.

 

[ferball]

Cunnington - Nearly 5 years ago?

I wasn't here then but iirc probably was a bit shitty at Cunnington for a while. That he should have been dropped earlier.

I wouldn't call it appalling player management tho. Its probably something that has improved as Scott has gained more coaching experience.

I like what has happened with Wags and Clarke, not so much Daw. I'm a bit appalled at the way Daw was "managed" this year.

 

[True North]

"Appalling player management" that resulted in a win and a second in the B&F a couple of seasons later? Zero benefit? Really? You even make the point that he was dropped for 2 games when merited and came back better. Isn't that actually effective player management?

So what was your point - he should have been dropped earlier? Or again after coming back? I truly don't get what you think was appalling.

And perhaps you shouldn't have included Atley if you didn't know he finished 5th in the B&F in his second season. Or do you still maintain he shouldn't have been picked that year because he was 19?

I'm still inclined to conclude that your post was just another "gifted games" snipe that is contradicted by the facts.

Cunnington should have been dropped earlier and more often. His greatest form spike early was after being dropped, so the merit lay in doing the right thing earlier and each time he tapered off. Who knows what sort of 2016 he might have had if managed better back then (yes this is as BS as your results orientated hindsight process).

Clarke for instance was omitted late this year for being "cooked". Exhaustion and underperformance wasn't a mantra 4-6 years ago.

I don't care whether they are 18 or 38, play them on merit. I would have dropped Harvey before Wagner at 1 stage this year due to effort. I'm not remotely interested in your memes, unless there was one dropping Petrie for the last 17 rounds and playing anyone under 25? I would have been 100% in favour of playing youth ahead of Petrie to see whether they could hold the spot on merit for a 3 week period. Who knows, Drew might have kicked a goal in the 2's.

Atley fits in the merit category. He has barely improved at all in 4 years.

tl,dr play them on merit in 17 not just because....

 

[LuvtheKangas]

tl,dr I'm changing my argument because my original one didn't stand up ...

EFA

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[True North]

EFA

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Pretty sure my original said I was not in favour of free games and was in favour of the Wagner/Clarke strategy.

Guess you will be in the Sacks Scotts V4 thread when Waite gets a game ahead of McKay. See you there.

 

[Firestarter]

We are in a peculiar state where we pumped games into u22s to start with and they have been the mainstay, like Ziebs, Cunnington (eventually), Wright and Atley. McDonald has filled a niche the coach has perceived, I have a bad memory of how JMac muscled his way in and I just mean my memory blows.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Pretty sure my original said I was not in favour of free games and was in favour of the Wagner/Clarke strategy.

Guess you will be in the Sacks Scotts V4 thread when Waite gets a game ahead of McKay. See you there.

No, your original argument was that Cunnington and Atley were gifted games regardless of form. They weren't.

I've always been in the pro-Brad camp, btw. Not that it's relevant to this topic.

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[Istanbul Roo]

"Appalling player management" that resulted in a win and a second in the B&F a couple of seasons later? Zero benefit? Really? You even make the point that he was dropped for 2 games when merited and came back better. Isn't that actually effective player management?

So what was your point - he should have been dropped earlier? Or again after coming back? I truly don't get what you think was appalling.

And perhaps you shouldn't have included Atley if you didn't know he finished 5th in the B&F in his second season. Or do you still maintain he shouldn't have been picked that year because he was 19?

I'm still inclined to conclude that your post was just another "gifted games" snipe that is contradicted by the facts.

Excellent post. My opinion is that the line that BS doesn't drop players is just another myth, like the one that he trashed the shin-boner spirit, or has favourites, or can't coach, or has under-performed.

 

[Firestarter]

Excellent post. My opinion is that the line that BS doesn't drop players is just another myth, like the one that he trashed the shin-boner spirit, or has favourites, or can't coach, or has under-performed.

Plan B exists?

 

[True North]

We are in a peculiar state where we pumped games into u22s to start with and they have been the mainstay, like Ziebs, Cunnington (eventually), Wright and Atley. McDonald has filled a niche the coach has perceived, I have a bad memory of how JMac muscled his way in and I just mean my memory blows.

JMAC had a pretty inauspicious start and anytime he got going he broke down. In saying that,

No, your original argument was that Cunnington and Atley were gifted games regardless of form. They weren't.

I've always been in the pro-Brad camp, btw. Not that it's relevant to this topic.

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Yes, Cunnington 100% was gifted multiple games when his form was non-existent. Multiple repeat 12 touch or less games as an inside mid is pretty poor and he needed a rest. I'd like to add he said the freshen up did him wonders, however I can't possibly find that soundbite now. You say the club did it at the perfect time and I'm positive it was too late. Too late to finish top 5 in the 2016 B&F.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

JMAC had a pretty inauspicious start and anytime he got going he broke down. In saying that,


Yes, Cunnington 100% was gifted multiple games when his form was non-existent. Multiple repeat 12 touch or less games as an inside mid is pretty poor and he needed a rest. I'd like to add he said the freshen up did him wonders, however I can't possibly find that soundbite now. You say the club did it at the perfect time and I'm positive it was too late. Too late to finish top 5 in the 2016 B&F.

Yeah, because 1st and 2nd in the two prevoous years mean nothing against not finishing top 5 this year. When injured. Great logic.

FOS.

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[czero]

The only person deserving of being dropped from our best 22 last year was Petrie. The coach is a pussy basically.

I think we can make arguments that the selections used to cover for injured players was also bad. Why none of our last 2 years of draft picked defenders have had a run yet is beyond me. Surely we knew that we were dropping 3 defenders from the list this year well before the end of the season. Grrr

 

[roos_fanatic08]

The only person deserving of being dropped from our best 22 last year was Petrie. The coach is a pussy basically.

I think we can make arguments that the selections used to cover for injured players was also bad. Why none of our last 2 years of draft picked defenders have had a run yet is beyond me. Surely we knew that we were dropping 3 defenders from the list this year well before the end of the season. Grrr

None of them deserved a game. Could have made a case for EVW but we had enough 3rd defender types playing anyway

 

[Istanbul Roo]

The only person deserving of being dropped from our best 22 last year was Petrie. The coach is a pussy basically.

I think we can make arguments that the selections used to cover for injured players was also bad. Why none of our last 2 years of draft picked defenders have had a run yet is beyond me. Surely we knew that we were dropping 3 defenders from the list this year well before the end of the season. Grrr

Last year Durdin, Neilson and EVW were all virtually first year players, given major injuries in their maiden year

 

[Firestarter]

Last year Durdin, Neilson and EVW were all virtually first year players, given major injuries in their maiden year

Let's not let reality prevent the blooding youngsters at all costs mentality.

 

[shniko11]

The only person deserving of being dropped from our best 22 last year was Petrie. The coach is a pussy basically.

I think we can make arguments that the selections used to cover for injured players was also bad. Why none of our last 2 years of draft picked defenders have had a run yet is beyond me. Surely we knew that we were dropping 3 defenders from the list this year well before the end of the season. Grrr

Agree and i could probably make a case for a few more this year and previous years but i won't.

But Petrie playing all year alone and Brad's comments that he would have played them cause he loves them if they went on proves to me that the "myth" is not really a myth.

It's not something made up in our heads or a conspiracy theory. As supporters we notice things after having the same coach for so long.

Don't know what is wrong with supporters expecting players not performing for a long run to be dropped. Maybe they will find some form and come back better for it like Atley after he was dropped a while back.

Do we know exactly what's going on in the inner sanctum of course not. But in Brad's time at the club more acountability for every player in the 22 is what i would have liked to see.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Agree and i could probably make a case for a few more this year and previous years but i won't.

But Petrie playing all year alone and Brad's comments that he would have played them cause he loves them if they went on proves to me that the "myth" is not really a myth.

It's not something made up in our heads or a conspiracy theory. As supporters we notice things after having the same coach for so long.

Don't know what is wrong with supporters expecting players not performing for a long run to be dropped. Maybe they will find some form and come back better for it like Atley after he was dropped a while back.

Do we know exactly what's going on in the inner sanctum of course not. But in Brad's time at the club more acountability for every player in the 22 is what i would have liked to see.

Did he say that? I thought he said he'd play them because he's a competitor and always wants to win?

 

[shniko11]

Did he say that? I thought he said he'd play them because he's a competitor and always wants to win?

Yes he did as i recall...

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Did he say that? I thought he said he'd play them because he's a competitor and always wants to win?

It was along the lines of he'd have trouble not picking them if they were on the list.

 

[Kimbo]

Yes he did as i recall...

(Because he loves them.)

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

The actual quote:

“But we cannot continue to have these guys on the list.

“I’m not ashamed to say I love these guys. If they’re there (next year), I’ll play them."

It does hint somewhat at a lack of objectivity.