Politics Aussie Fascists, (neo)Nazis and Leg Spinners

[Cyber_punk]

See ya.

Confirmed by 7 that the wife and baby are to be deported also.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The problem I have with your posting here is (ironically enough) the same problem I have with the way a lot of lefties argue: they treat the conversation as having been had and as though they won it and do not need to rehash it again. Your logic is not so immediately obvious as to flow from your points; this is not a conversation that has been 'had'.

If you're going to throw accusations of authoritarianism alongside dishonesty at your political opposition, I'm rather going to want to take a look at your working out.

The intention is not to post as if an argument has been had and won. In contrast, i don't consider there to be an 'argument' at all. From my perspective, socialism and communism and similar leftist ideals are inherently and morally flawed. They rely on the State, determining to take from the productive and provide to the unproductive on scale - an action which is fundamentally morally wrong, in the same way that theft or assault is morally wrong.

In contrast, my position is that (absent certain limited spaces where individuals are fundamentally unable to fend for themselves, being the old aged, the youth and the (legitimately) disabled), individuals should be provided equal opportunity, without State sanctioned harm. That position, is a natural, moral foundation that allows society to naturally flow rather than be rigged and forced into a structure of perceived equality of outcome by force.

So I'll admit I do post from a position of certainty, and confidence, in that I know there is moral foundation for socialism or communism. That being said, there is always room for compromise and individuals can argue specific points such as where do we draw the line for who requires support within the State and a recent topic of controversy - who can and should comprise the State, in a hybrid system as out political system currently is... but if someone is going to come out and support the idea that "Socialism" as a whole (not socialists bents to modern day hybrid political governance) is somehow distinguishable from fascism in its moral bankruptcy, then that is a point that is fundamentally wrong and there is no need for me to argue with someone who believes that. Would you argue with a fascist like Thomas Sewell who believes in White Supremacy and exclusion based on race? I doubt it, just like I do not intend to argue or entertain any position on Socialism.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I'd say the bolded is probably not a particularly accurate reflection of the practical reality of either philosophy. Plus, when there's been studies on Universal Basic Income it basically results in the opposite of laziness - when people are assured of a minimum standard of living, they take more risks in starting their own businesses because they know they're not going to be homeless if it fails.

Socialism and Communism also aren't the same thing, much as FBI likes to lump them in together, and AFAIK there's no one advocating for full-blown utopian communism everyone gets exactly the same outcome anyway.

Australia already does heaps of socialist things; healthcare, education, infrastructure. All that publicly funded stuff is sOcIaLiSt. Not everyone benefits equally from it.

People act like you can only have one or the other. There's nothing stopping any country from taking the good bits from any system or philosophy. You can have well-regulated capitalism with a healthy dose of socialism to ensure a basic standard of living for every citizen regardless of their start in life. You can tax public resources (aka Australia's mining or gas resources) to ensure that the wealth of finite public resources aren't funneled into private hands to the detriment of the people of Australia.

I'm sure there's other parties out there, I just happen to know these guys are in Victoria. Take a read of their policies, many of them are 'socialist' but actually read some of the policies and see what you think.

Our Policy Platform | Victorian Socialists

victoriansocialists.org.au

FBI uses socialism or communism the way other people use woke; he just labels anything and anyone he doesn't like as socialist even if he doesn't know why or what it means. Also, to be clear, FBI has repeatedly said he doesn't believe in democracy and that government should be run by an 'enlightened philosopher king' a.k.a a dictatorship.

Weren't you the person that pretended to be a doctor during Covid to attempt to spread misinformation about the dangers of the virus and the efficiency of various mass health protocols... I would hope no one takes your opinion on anything seriously.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The intention is not to post as if an argument has been had and won. In contrast, i don't consider there to be an 'argument' at all. From my perspective, socialism and communism and similar leftist ideals are inherently and morally flawed. They rely on the State, determining to take from the productive and provide to the unproductive on scale - an action which is fundamentally morally wrong, in the same way that theft or assault is morally wrong. In contrast, my position is that (absent certain limited spaces where individuals are fundamentally unable to fend for themselves, being the old aged, the youth and the (legitimately) disabled), individuals should be provided equal opportunity without State sanctioned harm. That position, is a natural, moral foundation that allows society to naturally flow rather than be rigged and forced into a structure of perceived equality of outcome by force. So I'll admit I do post from a position of certainty, and confidence, in that I know there is moral foundation for socialism or communism. That being said, there is always room for compromise and individuals can argue specific points such as where do we draw the line for who requires support within the State and a recent topic of controversy - who can and should comprise the State, in a hybrid system as out political system currently is... but if someone is going to come out and support the idea that "Socialism" as a whole (not socialists bents to modern day hybrid political governance) is somehow distinguishable from fascism in its moral bankruptcy, then that is a point that is fundamentally wrong and there is no need for me to argue with someone who believes that. Would you argue with a fascist like Thomas Sewell who believes in White Supremacy and exclusion based on race? I doubt it, just like I do not intend to argue or entertain any position on Socialism.

I reckon that Thomas Sewell would at least use paragraphs.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I reckon that Thomas Sewell would at least use paragraphs.

Et tu brutae!

 

[Gethelred]

The intention is not to post as if an argument has been had and won. In contrast, i don't consider there to be an 'argument' at all. From my perspective, socialism and communism and similar leftist ideals are inherently and morally flawed. They rely on the State, determining to take from the productive and provide to the unproductive on scale - an action which is fundamentally morally wrong, in the same way that theft or assault is morally wrong.

In contrast, my position is that (absent certain limited spaces where individuals are fundamentally unable to fend for themselves, being the old aged, the youth and the (legitimately) disabled), individuals should be provided equal opportunity, without State sanctioned harm. That position, is a natural, moral foundation that allows society to naturally flow rather than be rigged and forced into a structure of perceived equality of outcome by force.

So I'll admit I do post from a position of certainty, and confidence, in that I know there is moral foundation for socialism or communism. That being said, there is always room for compromise and individuals can argue specific points such as where do we draw the line for who requires support within the State and a recent topic of controversy - who can and should comprise the State, in a hybrid system as out political system currently is... but if someone is going to come out and support the idea that "Socialism" as a whole (not socialists bents to modern day hybrid political governance) is somehow distinguishable from fascism in its moral bankruptcy, then that is a point that is fundamentally wrong and there is no need for me to argue with someone who believes that. Would you argue with a fascist like Thomas Sewell who believes in White Supremacy and exclusion based on race? I doubt it, just like I do not intend to argue or entertain any position on Socialism.

I'm still intensely curious - you've provided me with a lot of what you think, but not why - but this looks an awful lot like faith to me. And faith is filled to the brim with whats that pretend to be whys that an individual who believes cannot see another way.

You do acknowledge somewhat the inherent inflexibility of your position, so there's that at least.

 

[UltraEgo]

Weren't you the person that pretended to be a doctor during Covid to attempt to spread misinformation about the dangers of the virus and the efficiency of various mass health protocols... I would hope no one takes your opinion on anything seriously.

I and many others here take his opinion alot more seriously than yours.

 

[faible]

Weren't you the person that pretended to be a doctor

Much like your understanding of pretty much everything, this is untrue.

There were posters on BigFooty that appear to be actual doctors that commented during covid that I assume you're confusing me with.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I and many others here take his opinion alot more seriously than yours.

I am sure you do haha. But I don't think that says what you think it says. Lol.

 

[Cyber_punk]

New laws to combat neo-Nazis in NSW after parliament rally

Police and courts will be given greater powers to combat public displays of Nazi ideology in NSW following a rally outside state parliament earlier this month.

www.abc.net.au

Police and courts will be given greater powers to combat public displays of Nazi ideology in NSW following a rally outside state parliament earlier this month.
The government on Wednesday said it would amend the Crimes Act 1900 to ban conduct which indicated support for Nazi ideology without reasonable excuse and in public.

This includes banning the use of Nazi chants or slogans.
Under the reforms being introduced into NSW parliament on Wednesday, someone who engages in this conduct will face up to a year's imprisonment or a maximum fine of $11,000.

Stronger penalties — up to two years' imprisonment or a $22,000 fine — will apply to someone who commits this offence near a synagogue, Jewish school or the Sydney Jewish Museum.

 

[the_interloper]

I reckon that Thomas Sewell would at least use paragraphs.

Would probably be using Crayolas as well though

 

[Beerfish]

I am sure you do haha. But I don't think that says what you think it says. Lol.

My irony meter just exploded.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Weren't you the person that pretended to be a doctor during Covid to attempt to spread misinformation about the dangers of the virus and the efficiency of various mass health protocols... I would hope no one takes your opinion on anything seriously.

That's not him.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

That's not him.

It is, it's just an alt account.

 

[Gralin]

It is, it's just an alt account.

Care to back that up?

 

[H00t]

In contrast, my position is that (absent certain limited spaces where individuals are fundamentally unable to fend for themselves, being the old aged, the youth and the (legitimately) disabled), individuals should be provided equal opportunity, without State sanctioned harm. That position, is a natural, moral foundation that allows society to naturally flow rather than be rigged and forced into a structure of perceived equality of outcome by force.

If these are your true thoughts you must really hate both capitalism and Nazism. Both are built upon the exact opposite premise as equal opportunity.

Yet here you are defending both

 

[Sinjin Smith]

It is, it's just an alt account.

It really isn't. I know who you are referring to and that poster ain't him/her.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It really isn't. I know who you are referring to and that poster ain't him/her.

Apologies, I may have gotten them mixed up - it is difficult to keep track of the amount of disingenuous posters I have on ignore.

 

[evolved2]

You have to look at motivations though. The Left do not want to exclude based on race or ethnicity. We actually want an inclusive collective humanity to flourish.

Exclusionism is the reason the Far Right exists. Only a certain group should have rights. There are degrees to which a proponent of the Far Right employs their belief. Some believe in eradication/genocide, some believe in ethnic cleansing/seperatism but ALL believe in exclusions of 'out' groups.

Socialists wouldn't want to kill you or make your functioning in society a living hell just because you are a different race, religion or culture, Irene.

The Far Right most definitely would.

Are there any regular SRP posters that you view as being far right?

 

[Gough]

The finding out bit is starting.

Neo-Nazi charged over alleged harassment of federal politician

Joel Davis, who spoke at a rally outside NSW parliament earlier this month, was referred to the Australian Federal Police over a message about a Sydney MP.

www.abc.net.au

Neo-Nazi groups' political fundraising frustrated as banks freeze accounts

While federal and state governments, police and national security agencies grapple with how to respond to the National Socialist Network, several financial institutions and service providers have acted independently to restrict the flow of funds to the white supremacy group.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Are there any regular SRP posters that you view as being far right?

Currently? None have announced themselves. The sole poster who was an 'out of the closet' White Nationalist that I interacted with was a poster called gytre (Joined - Apr 13, 2004. Last seen - Apr 30, 2013)

The name appears to be a Cymru/Welsh word for 'home' according to comments from this language forum

Word for home

This is how I see the matter, any or all of the following could be wrong! “Officially”, in many dictionaries, you will see the following meanings- “Cartref” - home, of course, but- “Gartref”- at home “Adref” - homewards, towards home. But the differences aren’t always kept to in speech...

en.forum.saysomethingin.com

..It’s true, you won’t find the word “Gytre” in most Welsh dictionaries because it is very much a regional word for ‘Home’ (mainly in the south, but an exact region where it is heard I’m not entirely sure).

From what I can remember (it’s been a LOOONG time since I did the old course 1 where these words were introduced), we use “gytre” or “adre(f)” when we’re talking of going home or being at home. Cartref is more of a possessive word where you’re talking about your home or a home...

He posted on Stormfront under the name 'Jaxxen' (last seen - November 2017)

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/search.php?searchid=29322916

Jaxxen confirming this here;

www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scholar-fears-for-europes-future.434280/page-2#post-10746815

That's jaxxen with an "e", and it's a it's a White Nationalist website. White Nationalism is racial identity politics that has paralels with Black Nationalism or Arab Nationalism or whatever. And I'm neither a neo-Nazi nor a white supremacist.

Our interaction (which was alarmingly polite given my feelings on ethno-religious supremacy and separatism these days) is here;

Australia Day gone mad?

We're talking here about the building of an Islamic school, which presumably would bring much larger numbers of (probably Middle-Eastern) Muslims into a predominantly white, rural based community. Why do the people of this community not have a right to object to this? Why do they not have a...

www.bigfooty.com

There was a culling of posters who espoused Far Right sentiment in the anti-Muslim threads following the Charlie Hebdo murders

Massacre in Paris at least 11 dead

Didn't put in terror thread as that seems to have taken a turn for the worse and not sure re exact cause / identity of perps etc. Doesn't look good though. Very disturbing. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11329976/Paris-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-live.html At least two...

www.bigfooty.com

and the atrocity perpetrated by Anders Breivik in Norway

Massacre in Paris at least 11 dead

Didn't put in terror thread as that seems to have taken a turn for the worse and not sure re exact cause / identity of perps etc. Doesn't look good though. Very disturbing. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11329976/Paris-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-live.html At least two...

www.bigfooty.com

So there's little to no actual way to have a dialogue with a member of the Far Right here unless they 'out' themselves as Jaxxen/gytre did all those years ago.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Are there any regular SRP posters that you view as being far right?

There are some far right governments doing horrible things at the moment, and there is support/cheerleading for them by some SRP posters.

 

[demondavey]

Yes. I don't believe anyone of left wing persuasion truly believes in equality for all.

Yet we are in a thread discussing fascism and you are spending a lot of time bringing in the left to indirectly support right wing ideologies. Seriously, either start up a thread on the threat of socialism and its hateful and politically driven exclusive ideologies or piss off to a QAnon forum.

 

[demondavey]

By some pale skinned, socialist, who needs the government to support them? I doubt it.

As opposed to a roid pig like Sewell who can only attack a group of indigenous people with his cohort of Nazis behind him?

 

[demondavey]

I'd like the same thing to happen to this campaigner, ship him over the ditch pls

Drop him off halfway