No one voted for Bob Carr, but now suddenly he is in parliament and the foreign minister of this country, presenting our views overseas. This is an extraordinary abuse of our democratic system. Australian democracy is broken and needs to be fixed. I'm not sure how we do this but something needs to be done.
Australian Democracy is Broken
- Thread starter Masto
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- Aug 1, 2002
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"Unrepresentative swill" - why don't we have one vote/one value for upper house - that way there would be fewer Western Australian Senators
Oscarman
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Wasn't it broken when Sir Joh put Albert Field or whatever his name was into the Senate during the Whitlam Government, throwing away convention to always put someone from the same Party in?
sherb
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How so? What's been done wrong here?
- Oct 9, 2003
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The Senate is unrepresentative but Labor are only doing what the Coalition would have done in the same position.
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- #8
He holds a significant portfolio in parliament without the endorsement of the Australian people. Democracy requires a vote. Bob Carr has never stood before the Australian people and told us what he stands for. He has no votes thus no legitimacy.
To be fair, it's not really like anyone really voted for Mark Arbib (or any of the Senate really with the exception of Xenophon).
I'd be shocked if the vast majority don't vote above the line or along party lines below the line.
I'd be shocked if the vast majority don't vote above the line or along party lines below the line.
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- #10
That's not true. When you vote in the senate there are names against who you are voting for. If someone steps down from the senate there should be a new vote.
I think it's weird that he gets thrown straight into such an important Ministry, but I don't have a problem with the concept, for the Senate, it makes more sense than having a by-election.
If he replaced Gillard as leader of the Labor party he would become Prime Minister.
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- #14
And what an absolute disgrace that would be if it was done before the next election.
sherb
Hall of Famer
He is filling a senate vacancy. Once in the senate, he is entitled to hold a ministry. Under those circumstances he doesn't need a vote.
And he doesn't need to explain to the people what he stands for, as Foreign Minister he will simply be representing the foreign policy views of the government, which I would think are already known.
If the constitution requires otherwise, and something wrong has been done here, I would be pleased for you to point it out for me. I am hardly an expert in these matters.
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- #16
I'm not interested in debating you. You just want to make ad hominem attacks so piss off out of this thread thanks.
mickctiger
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The Australian Constitution allows for casual senate vacancies to be filled by the pary represented via the relevant state premier.
It means that we do not need to go to a messy by-election just to fill a senate spot that would not make any real difference to the numbers.
You sound like your typical born-to-rule Fiberal having a cry becuase the Australian people rejected your mob
Indeed the casual vacancies section has been in the Constitution since kingdom come.
Whether it should have been substantially amended after 1975 is an argument worth having though.
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- #20
The problem is he is filling a senate vacancy without a vote. Worse still, he is becoming a minister without a vote. Yes, that is the way it currently works and I would call that broken democracy. There's no vote or legitimacy by the Australian people given to Bob Carr. Yes its the Australian system but it's not democracy, its something else.
sherb
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Disputing what you say is hardly an attack.
I agree with him fwiw. This is how the system works.
You don't like it, that's fine.
sherb
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mickctiger
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when people vote for the senate, they vote for the party rather than the individual as with the house of reps.
A casual vacancy came up and the Government was within their rights to appoint who ever they deemed fit to fill that spot.
Only the 'born-to-rule' Fiberals ( and the OO) are crying over this, and thats only becuase they have been snookered by Prime Minister Gillard
mickctiger
Club Legend
99% of voters vote above the line, when voting for the senate.
only the 'born-to-rule' Fiberals have suddenly got a problem with that
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- #25
BTW I am not a liberal voter, although I could be at the next election, not that it should make any difference to this topic. I guess more people are interested in discussing me than discussing the topic
Its certainly a legit topic. It was even brought up on Q&A by the guy who used to work for Rudd, I forget his name. The very definition of democracy is that politicians are elected by the people. If they are not elected by the people then it isn't democracy. So unless we change that we must admit we do not have a truly democratic system.
Its certainly a legit topic. It was even brought up on Q&A by the guy who used to work for Rudd, I forget his name. The very definition of democracy is that politicians are elected by the people. If they are not elected by the people then it isn't democracy. So unless we change that we must admit we do not have a truly democratic system.
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