Ayres or Archer?

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Both absolutely fantastic players.

For mine Archer was probably more versatile down back, had a bit more speed and leap which meant he could play on mids, smalls and talls. I still remember him destroying Nick Holland every time they played, yet he gave away about 3 inches and 5 kilos.

Aryes wasn't quite as versatile down back, but dominated forwards his whole career and could move into the centre and completely turn a game on its head. Jeansy once described him as a "good driver in heavy traffic".

If you could have one in your team, who would it be?

 

[MinerBoy]

Gary Ayres was the better player.

 

[ausbacker]

Gary Ayres and it's not even close.

 

[Slattery_20]

Both absolutely fantastic players.

For mine Archer was probably more versatile down back, had a bit more speed and leap which meant he could play on mids, smalls and talls. I still remember him destroying Nick Holland every time they played, yet he gave away about 3 inches and 5 kilos.

3? Try about 5 inches.

Archer's under 6', have stood next to him. Holland IIRC 6'5". Archer was good at working on Holland's shoulders.

 

[R00StaR]

Mustve been brutal being part of Hawthorns defense during a decade of complete dominance.

 

[Wallaby]

As opposed to Archer who played in a decade where North played 7 prelims - yeah, he really had to struggle in that side.

Maybe the reason hawthorn played in 7 GFs in a row and North played in 7 Prelims is because Ayres was a better player than Archer.

Well, that was easy.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

Archer. He has a forehead.

 

[R00StaR]

As opposed to Archer who played in a decade where North played 7 prelims - yeah, he really had to struggle in that side.

Maybe the reason hawthorn played in 7 GFs in a row and North played in 7 Prelims is because Ayres was a better player than Archer.

Well, that was easy.

Ayres was a gun no doubting that, but cmon any fair minded person would know that team was the most dominant of the modern era. Im not even going to argue who the better player is, but its a different story being a defender when your team is smashing everyone.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Ah, the old "he was in a good team therefore he was shit" line.

What a cliche. Good players make good teams, not the other way around.

Ayres by a fair margin.

Archer was also in a good team, by the way.

 

[Teffy]

Ayres would have been a full back at many other clubs.

Arch was the better all round footballer.

 

[Hungry Hawk]

3? Try about 5 inches.

Archer's under 6', have stood next to him. Holland IIRC 6'5". Archer was good at working on Holland's shoulders.

Ho, ho, ho, that's so funny. Geez!

I am biased, always wore the number 7 as a kid. I thought people would have laughed at that poll and Archer would have most the votes.

 

[Gone Critical]

Arch was a very good AFL player who probably had his status pushed up because of his character

Ayres was a gun who dominated games in a way Archer couldnt

Thats not to knock Arch as he was v good

 

[Bloods]

Ayres comfortably.

 

[Teffy]

I'm wondering why the OP didn't run with an Archer v Collins or Langford v Dench poll?

 

[ausbacker]

Arch was a very good AFL player who probably had his status pushed up because of his character

Ayres was a gun who dominated games in a way Archer couldnt

Thats not to knock Arch as he was v good

That's where the distinction needs to be made. Archer was a good honest trier who could impact games in stretches. Gary Ayres was one of the dominant players of his era.

 

[Chewy]

Archer played in an era where the media coverage of the game became saturated and so he received more fanfare for his toughness and courage. Carey grabbed all the headlines for North, but Archer followed closely behind when people came to discussing those even, blue collar Kangaroo teams in the 90's.

Ayres was able to go about his business with less fuss and less fawning from the media. Hawthorn had a bunch of stars who stole most of the limelight, players like Brereton, Dunstall, Platten, Dipper and Buckenara.

He wasn't quick, but pace aside, he had it all. He would run through brick walls to get the ball or make a tackle. He was the toughest man in the game. He won the 1988 Norm Smith Medal playing in the centre and was the leading possession getter, despite sustaining a fractured cheek bone in the first quarter. One of my favourite highlights from the 1989 Grand Final is seeing Ayres run straight through Ablett and knock him down for an 8-count with a perfectly-timed bump. Not many players did that to "God".

Ayres was a great overhead mark, with very safe hands, but he knew when to mark and when to spoil. He knew when to attack and run off his man, but also when to play it safe and defend. Many, many times I saw Ayres pull off goal-saving tackles and smothers (like Heath Shaw's vs Riewoldt from the 2010 GF Replay)

The best thing about Ayres was how calm he was. He never, ever panicked. Always so unflustered and self-assured. This rubbed off on his teammates around him. Always cool as a cucumber, whether he was smashing opponents, or grabbing the loose ball and spotting up a teammate fifty metres away with a beautiful pass.

Ayres had superb skills. He never missed his targets and always used the ball constructively, by hand or foot. His uncanny combination with Langford and Collins had to be seen to be believed. They formed one of the best full back lines in history. This is one of Ayresy's strengths: not just how good he was as an individual (which he was) but how well he teamed with those around him.

The Hawthorn defence in the 80's is probably the greatest defence I have ever seen. They ushered in the new era of attack from the last line of defence. The so-called "experts" used to praise various defences by looking at the "points against" column, but Hawthorn dominated the 80's because of the rebound they generated from defence. Allan Jeans was the first coach to load his backline with skilful players and Gary Ayres was the master. Along with Mew, Langford, Collins, Tuck, Kennedy, Greene... What a backline the Hawks had! I wish we had that now...

That said, Glenn Archer was a great, great player. One of my favourite players to watch. Fearless and intimidating, just like Gary Ayres. Like many of the greatest defenders, they both started out as forwards, but eventually found their niche in defence.

 

[jacko57]

Ho, ho, ho, that's so funny. Geez!

I am biased, always wore the number 7 as a kid.

Did you grow the Conan-style mullett?

 

[Teffy]

That's where the distinction needs to be made. Archer was a good honest trier who could impact games in stretches. Gary Ayres was one of the dominant players of his era.

Settle down there mate.

 

[jacko57]

As Yabby said of Ayres : "He's a good driver in heavy traffic."

Both terrific players to watch, gave 100% effort 100% of the time.

I'd vote for Archer, but I'm biased.

 

[jacko57]

3? Try about 5 inches.

Archer's under 6', have stood next to him. Holland IIRC 6'5". Archer was good at working on Holland's shoulders.

Archer also used to do pretty well on Richo, despite the height disadvantage.

 

[Chewy]

For whatever it's worth, here's their respective honours, awards, etc


Gary Ayres
5 Premierships
2 Norm Smith Medals
1 Best and Fairest
3 times in the VFL Team of the Year (roughly equivalent to All Australian)
Regular Big V State representative
Captained Victoria
Captained Hawthorn
"Good Driver in Heavy Traffic"
Back pocket in Hawthorn's Team of the Century
187cm, 95kg
269 games


Glenn Archer
2 Premierships
1 Norm Smith Medal
3 times All Australian
3 times Victorian state representative
6 Robert Rose 'Most Courageous' Awards
"Shinboner of the Century"
Back pocket in North's Team of the Century
182cm, 91kg
311 games

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I'm wondering why the OP didn't run with an Archer v Collins or Langford v Dench poll?

Because Archer and Collins played different roles (Ross Smith vs Collo might be more appropriate) and whilst Dench was a very good full back, Langford was considerably better.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Gary Ayres was the better player.

Archer has the better coaching record.

 

[E Shed]

Gary Ayres says Gary Ayres was better.

 

[Teffy]

For whatever it's worth, here are their respective honours and awards:

Gary Ayres
5 Premierships
2 Norm Smith Medals
1 Best and Fairest
3 times in the VFL Team of the Year (roughly equivalent to All Australian)
Regular Big V State representative
Captained Victoria
Captained Hawthorn
"Good Driver in Heavy Traffic"
Back pocket in Hawthorn's Team of the Century
187cm, 95kg
269 games


Glenn Archer
2 Premierships
1 Norm Smith Medal
3 times All Australian
3 times Victorian state representative
6 Robert Rose 'Most Courageous' Awards
"Shinboner of the Century"
Back pocket in North's Team of the Century
182cm, 91kg
311 games

Many of those stats offer little in the way of comparison.