As far as #2 goes, I've seen bails completely clear the stumps and land back in the groove. Not a metre off (not even 5cm off), but completely off.
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Bail Trajectory
- Thread starter rdhopkins2
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Yeah, the bail has to land somewhere. It is extremely unlikely, although not at all impossible that it would land exactly back in the same position it started.
the question is, would you give it out??
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Question 1 is just the conservation of momentum otherwise known as Newton's first law of motion:
"A body continues to maintain its state of rest or of uniform motion unless acted upon by an external unbalanced force"
"A body continues to maintain its state of rest or of uniform motion unless acted upon by an external unbalanced force"
rdhopkins2
Carpe Diem
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- #32
Yes my point simply highlights the scenario and result
But we still must test why a ball that hits the stumps can send the bails flying back over the batsman's head towards the bowler. Always mystified me that one....you would have thought they would continue with the motion of the ball ie towards the keeper!
If the ball is passing in between the stumps then your stumps are too far apart.
I umpire indoor cricket, and I've seen an instance where the off stump was clipped, the bail on the off stump popped off and rested against the inside of the off stump. The bail stayed in the groove of middle stump leaving it still on the stumps, on a strange angle.
I umpire indoor cricket, and I've seen an instance where the off stump was clipped, the bail on the off stump popped off and rested against the inside of the off stump. The bail stayed in the groove of middle stump leaving it still on the stumps, on a strange angle.
NSWCROW
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that happens sometimes in club cricket when there is no official umpire. the player umpire just picks up the sticks and jams them in where ever.
regarding the indoor stumps, are you saying that the spring caused the off stump snapped back towards middle and trapped the bail there??
(I doubt very much that that ever happened!
)
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- #36
I remember playing backyard cricket with a set of fairly cheap beach cricket stumps complete with the standard "mono-bail" that we never bothered sawing in half. Due to the vagaries of the surface and the decade old stump holes of varying height, I once cartwheeled middle stump yet the mono-bail was still sitting there, perched undisturbed on off and leg. Obviously a fist-fight ensued.
rdhopkins2
Carpe Diem
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- #37
I did the same about 10yrs back playing with my brother. Sent middle stump cartwheeling 10m back but the good old mono bail stayed put...my brother (batting) ruled not out so I said fair enough, grabbed a saw, cut the BAIL in half, reset the bails, bowled the shortest quickest ball I could (which isn't quick), got him in the tummy, he's like ya bugger.
I collect cricket ball, go back to my mark, bowl (he's not ready) and again knock middle stump out this time the bails fall and I argue sarcastically that's out- the bails were dislodged from their grooves on the wicket and hit the ground-OUT chap (nevermind you weren't ready). Give him another chance. So we just carried on normally til it got dark and to the day where possible, we use wooden stumps and bails (99% of the time).
rdhopkins2
Carpe Diem
- Thread starter
- #38
Yup, seen a few instances of that. Funny when it happens and the bowling team has had no luck for the day. Even funnier when the bowler runs up to the stumps and knocks the bails off to make sure they aren't superglued.
courtjester
Cancelled
If the stumps are broken the bail can't land back on them.
If the bail/s sort of 'lodged' or 'wedged' between 2 stumps, and didnt hit the ground, would the batsman be out?
If the bail/s sort of 'lodged' or 'wedged' between 2 stumps, and didnt hit the ground, would the batsman be out?
jefffff34
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I swear Damien Martyn was bowled one time at the WACA back when it was still the FAI Insurance Cup vs Queensland on a very dirty Perth day, and the bails went back into the grooves in the stumps. They did alternate though.
courtjester
Cancelled
I see why you ask. Normally the stumps are forced apart from each other, meaning the bail cannot rest back on them. But potentially it could.
Is the batsman dismissed when the stumps (and bails) are broken or when the bails are off the stumps?
so it's not so much that they can't, but more that it is just unlikely. normally the stumps are forced apart from each other, but sometimes the spring back into position, especially if the ground is hard.
I'm pretty sure that if the bails are removed from the grooves that the stumps are deemed to have been broken, even if they land back in...
courtjester
Cancelled
Law 30 (Bowled)
1. Out Bowled
(a) The striker is out Bowled if his wicket is put down by a ball delivered by the bowler, not being a No ball, even if it first touches his bat or person.
(b) Notwithstanding (a) above he shall not be out Bowled if before striking the wicket the ball has been in contact with any other player or with an umpire. He will, however, be subject to Laws 33 (Handled the ball), 37 (Obstructing the field), 38 (Run out) and 39 (Stumped).
2. Bowled to take precedence
The striker is out Bowled if his wicket is put down as in 1 above, even though a decision against him for any other method of dismissal would be justified.
© Marylebone Cricket Club 2003
1. Out Bowled
(a) The striker is out Bowled if his wicket is put down by a ball delivered by the bowler, not being a No ball, even if it first touches his bat or person.
(b) Notwithstanding (a) above he shall not be out Bowled if before striking the wicket the ball has been in contact with any other player or with an umpire. He will, however, be subject to Laws 33 (Handled the ball), 37 (Obstructing the field), 38 (Run out) and 39 (Stumped).
2. Bowled to take precedence
The striker is out Bowled if his wicket is put down as in 1 above, even though a decision against him for any other method of dismissal would be justified.
© Marylebone Cricket Club 2003
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courtjester
Cancelled
Law 28 (The wicket is down)
1. Wicket put down
(a) The wicket is put down if a bail is completely removed from the top of the stumps, or a stump is struck out of the ground by
(i) the ball.
(ii) the striker's bat, whether he is holding it or has let go of it.
(iii) the striker's person or by any part of his clothing or equipment becoming detached from his person.
(iv) a fielder, with his hand or arm, providing that the ball is held in the hand or hands so used, or in the hand of the arm so used.
The wicket is also put down if a fielder pulls a stump out of the ground in the same manner.
(b) The disturbance of a bail, whether temporary or not, shall not constitute its complete removal from the top of the stumps, but if a bail in falling lodges between two of the stumps this shall be regarded as complete removal.
2. One bail off
If one bail is off, it shall be sufficient for the purpose of putting the wicket down to remove the remaining bail, or to strike or pull any of the three stumps out of the ground, in any of the ways stated in 1 above.
3. Remaking the wicket
If the wicket is broken or put down while the ball is in play, the umpire shall not remake the wicket until the ball is dead. See Law 23 (Dead ball). Any fielder, however, may
(i) replace a bail or bails on top of the stumps.
(ii) put back one or more stumps into the ground where the wicket originally stood.
4. Dispensing with bails
If the umpires have agreed to dispense with bails, in accordance with Law 8.5 (Dispensing with bails), the decision as to whether the wicket has been put down is one for the umpire concerned to decide.
(a) After a decision to play without bails, the wicket has been put down if the umpire concerned is satisfied that the wicket has been struck by the ball, by the striker's bat, person, or items of his clothing or equipment separated from his person as described in 1(a)(ii) or 1(a)(iii) above, or by a fielder with the hand holding the ball or with the arm of the hand holding the ball.
(b) If the wicket has already been broken or put down, (a) above shall apply to any stump or stumps still in the ground. Any fielder may replace a stump or stumps, in accordance with 3 above, in order to have an opportunity of putting the wicket down.
© Marylebone Cricket Club 2003
1. Wicket put down
(a) The wicket is put down if a bail is completely removed from the top of the stumps, or a stump is struck out of the ground by
(i) the ball.
(ii) the striker's bat, whether he is holding it or has let go of it.
(iii) the striker's person or by any part of his clothing or equipment becoming detached from his person.
(iv) a fielder, with his hand or arm, providing that the ball is held in the hand or hands so used, or in the hand of the arm so used.
The wicket is also put down if a fielder pulls a stump out of the ground in the same manner.
(b) The disturbance of a bail, whether temporary or not, shall not constitute its complete removal from the top of the stumps, but if a bail in falling lodges between two of the stumps this shall be regarded as complete removal.
2. One bail off
If one bail is off, it shall be sufficient for the purpose of putting the wicket down to remove the remaining bail, or to strike or pull any of the three stumps out of the ground, in any of the ways stated in 1 above.
3. Remaking the wicket
If the wicket is broken or put down while the ball is in play, the umpire shall not remake the wicket until the ball is dead. See Law 23 (Dead ball). Any fielder, however, may
(i) replace a bail or bails on top of the stumps.
(ii) put back one or more stumps into the ground where the wicket originally stood.
4. Dispensing with bails
If the umpires have agreed to dispense with bails, in accordance with Law 8.5 (Dispensing with bails), the decision as to whether the wicket has been put down is one for the umpire concerned to decide.
(a) After a decision to play without bails, the wicket has been put down if the umpire concerned is satisfied that the wicket has been struck by the ball, by the striker's bat, person, or items of his clothing or equipment separated from his person as described in 1(a)(ii) or 1(a)(iii) above, or by a fielder with the hand holding the ball or with the arm of the hand holding the ball.
(b) If the wicket has already been broken or put down, (a) above shall apply to any stump or stumps still in the ground. Any fielder may replace a stump or stumps, in accordance with 3 above, in order to have an opportunity of putting the wicket down.
© Marylebone Cricket Club 2003
I've seen it happen (though the 'right' decision was made, even if "incorrect")
This was at a 2nd grade level, so pretty competitive.
I was bowling, and got one through the defenses - clean hit on middle stump, which went back about 45 degrees. The bails went up, then came back down (maybe 3-5cm), and landed together - they were leaning against the stumps in a straight line, as if the middle stump was still there.
It was a windy day, and we were using the "heavy" bails. The ump made the decision it was out, despite neither the bails falling, nor the stump being removed from the ground.
It was almost a regular occurence at junior level - I remember in u/16s we had indoor wickets to use (one piece, stumps rebound to original position, bails held by elastic) - one set in particular (poorly made?) had room for the ball to go through and leave the stumps untouched.
This was at a 2nd grade level, so pretty competitive.
I was bowling, and got one through the defenses - clean hit on middle stump, which went back about 45 degrees. The bails went up, then came back down (maybe 3-5cm), and landed together - they were leaning against the stumps in a straight line, as if the middle stump was still there.
It was a windy day, and we were using the "heavy" bails. The ump made the decision it was out, despite neither the bails falling, nor the stump being removed from the ground.
It was almost a regular occurence at junior level - I remember in u/16s we had indoor wickets to use (one piece, stumps rebound to original position, bails held by elastic) - one set in particular (poorly made?) had room for the ball to go through and leave the stumps untouched.
sherb
Hall of Famer
I have quite a large collection of cricket books and magazines, and in them somewhere I have definitely seen a picture of a batsman being bowled with the dislodged bail lodged between two of the stumps. So, according to the laws as they stand, that would be out.
I also remember a picture of a batsman being bowled with both the off and leg stumps out of the ground and the middle stump still standing.
I can`t be bothered looking for the pics, it would take me forever.
I also remember a picture of a batsman being bowled with both the off and leg stumps out of the ground and the middle stump still standing.
I can`t be bothered looking for the pics, it would take me forever.
jefffff34
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I also remember a picture of a batsman being bowled with both the off and leg stumps out of the ground and the middle stump still standing.
That happened to a mate of mine facing a very fast bowler. Had his stumps made a mess of, but middle was still standing!
sherb
Hall of Famer
Not at all, I think it is quite possible.do you think I made it up in order to impress a bunch of bigfooty posters?
sure, it's unlikely. that's why I mentioned it. I have only ever seen it happen once. just as I have only once heard of a bowler, on a hat-trick, bowl the ball between the stumps...
I did a quick search and found this (refer second last question):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/sports_talk/stump_bearders/3909067.stm
I've had the good fortune of playing a ball back onto my stumps only to see the leg bail rise slightly but fall back into place.
In under 12's a teammate was 'bowled' but the ball went straight between the off and middle stumps - first ball of the innings too. He got bowled next ball though after the bowler fixed the stumps!
In under 12's a teammate was 'bowled' but the ball went straight between the off and middle stumps - first ball of the innings too. He got bowled next ball though after the bowler fixed the stumps!