Beating the Draw

[Zahki]

At the start of the year when we saw the draw we knew it was going to be tough. Facing the other 3 of the top 4 from 2009 twice each was a big enough ask, having our bogey side the Hawks on top of that was adding salt to the wound. Being top of the ladder after 16 rounds is remarkable considering how much tougher our draw is compared to the other top teams, I've compared them according to current ladder position just to see how we stack up.

Red = Play Twice
Collingwood:
Geelong
St Kilda
Fremantle
Western Bulldogs
Sydney
Hawthorn
Carlton
North Melbourne
Adelaide
Melbourne
Essendon
Brisbane
Port Adelaide
Richmond
West Coast

St Kilda:
Collingwood
Geelong
Fremantle
Western Bulldogs
Sydney
Hawthorn
Carlton
North Melbourne
Adelaide
Melbourne
Essendon
Brisbane
Port Adelaide
Richmond
West Coast

Geelong:
Collingwood
St Kilda
Fremantle
Western Bulldogs
Sydney
Hawthorn
Carlton
North Melbourne
Adelaide
Melbourne
Essendon
Brisbane
Port Adelaide
Richmond
West Coast

Breakdowns:
Collingwood:
Top 4 Teams played twice: 2
Top 8 Teams played twice: 5
Bottom 8 Teams played twice: 2

St Kilda:
Top 4 Teams played twice: 2
Top 8 Teams played twice: 2
Bottom 8 Teams played twice: 5

Geelong:
Top 4 Teams played twice: 1
Top 8 Teams played twice: 4
Bottom 8 Teams played twice: 3

Pretty good effort I reckon.

 

[Thommo 42]

You can change that to playing all of the other Top 4 teams twice.

Doggies will finish Top 4 and the only reason they're not there now is because they have had to play us twice!

 

[AFaiL]

That's a really good, in-depth analysis

You seem to have a lot of spare time - maybe you could do soem further analysis into the fixture (note, it's not a draw as you put it, it's a fixturing process) like the following

- Travel compared to other Victorian clubs (not a feasable exercise to compare to i/s clubs, it doesnt work)
- Days break/travel back/recovery time allowed for Collingwood, compared to that of their upcoming opponents (for example, you may play on a friday at the MCG in round 2, your round 3 opponents plays sunday in WA and you are scueduled to play in round 3 on a saturday at the MCG, that means they have 2 days less break and must travel home)

I would be interested to see the figures when those stats are included.

I'll check in later on after you've had some time to work on it.

Cheers

 

[Zahki]

Someone seems a bit offended that the only reason they're top 4 is that they got an armchair ride there thanks to playing 5 bottom 8 sides twice.

Travel really isn't that big a deal anymore, as evidenced by our excellent away record. WHO you play is much, much more important than WHERE you play.

Edit: Took a look at the fixture, both Geelong and St Kilda play one more interstate game. If you think that outweighs playing Richmond/West Coast twice, and only playing each other once then I dunno what to say.

 

[The Panther]

St. Kilda would be around the 6th to 8th range if they had the same draw this year.

We've yet to play Adelaide & Richmond, 2 bottom 8 sides.

 

[Bay Pie]

Collingwood came off 2 consecutive 6 day breaks before it played St.Kilda in round 3. St.Kilda 7 day, then 6 day break. Both St.Kildas' games at night during the warmest part of the year for footy season. Pies both day games.

Collingwood don't play Crows & West Coast away. Yeh, daunting task those even allowing for Crows form of late. We've beaten the Crows the last 3 times we've played them at AAMI, including a final.

West Coast: we've won the last 2 Subi games against them including a final.

We are the kings of travel.

The travel, days break thing is a load of crap. We played WCE on a Saturday night in Subi, in a final that went to extra time. Came back and played Geelong, coming off a 12 day break, in a prelim final and finished the stronger of the teams only to go down by 5 points. The Cats won their other 2 finals by 100+ points.

Somehow I think it comes down to how good you are, not the excuses you make.

Answer me this Failure, who'd you rather play, Crows & West Coast away or 2 of Geelong, Bulldogs & Hawthorn a 2nd time??

Facts are for the 2nd year in a row, we'll play more games against top 8 teams (providing the cheats hang onto 8th spot) then any other top 8 team.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Travel really isn't that big a deal anymore

I guess that's true if you only ever travel 4 or 5 times a year.

 

[The Panther]

I guess that's true if you only ever travel 4 or 5 times a year.

It's a disadvantage that Collingwood don't travel more.

 

[Zahki]

I guess that's true if you only ever travel 4 or 5 times a year.

As all victorian sides do. I dunno what your point is, Essendon travel 3 times this year. Unless you can invent some kind of teleporter thems the breaks of living on the opposite side of the continent.

You will notice though that all 3 of the sides I was comparing are victorian, so don't feel slighted, it's just that how much the wooden spoon team travels isn't relevant to the comparison.

 

[sunnyTEE]

That's a really good, in-depth analysis

You seem to have a lot of spare time - maybe you could do soem further analysis into the fixture (note, it's not a draw as you put it, it's a fixturing process) like the following

- Travel compared to other Victorian clubs (not a feasable exercise to compare to i/s clubs, it doesnt work)
- Days break/travel back/recovery time allowed for Collingwood, compared to that of their upcoming opponents (for example, you may play on a friday at the MCG in round 2, your round 3 opponents plays sunday in WA and you are scueduled to play in round 3 on a saturday at the MCG, that means they have 2 days less break and must travel home)

I would be interested to see the figures when those stats are included.

I'll check in later on after you've had some time to work on it.

Cheers

Probably an issue you should raise with your clubs admin champ. Considering playing Collingwood at home is at the top of your clubs wish list each year. Quite often I see the supporters of minnow clubs are the first to complain about our draw, neglecting the important fact that we prop their insipid finances up each year.

 

[sunnyTEE]

I guess that's true if you only ever travel 4 or 5 times a year.

Lets change it so you get 17 home games a year champ, completely ignoring the geographic restrictions that result from 10 out 16 teams residing in Melbourne.

 

[AFaiL]

Someone seems a bit offended that the only reason they're top 4 is that they got an armchair ride there thanks to playing 5 bottom 8 sides twice.

Travel really isn't that big a deal anymore, as evidenced by our excellent away record. WHO you play is much, much more important than WHERE you play.

Edit: Took a look at the fixture, both Geelong and St Kilda play one more interstate game. If you think that outweighs playing Richmond/West Coast twice, and only playing each other once then I dunno what to say.

Sorry? I was just asking a question for some analysis. I don't know who goies where more, and what the days break are. Maybe you know more than I do and that explain why you're being so defensive? Like you have something to hide. Interesting. Maybe I will look into the figures when I have some time.

St. Kilda would be around the 6th to 8th range if they had the same draw this year.

We've yet to play Adelaide & Richmond, 2 bottom 8 sides.

Well, we beat Geelong - so going by your theory that's 2 wins
We beat Western Bulldogs - so going by your theory that's 2 wins
We beat you once, lost once - so that would stay as is with roles reveres
Yet to play Hawthorn, so can't comment.

Don't understand how that would have us 6th to 8th?

Oh, and we beat Fremantle twice, who are in the top 4.

Could you please explain your logic again, it may have some flaws.

 

[Swooop]

Good work Zahki.

Don't worry about the Saints guy...of all the oppo boards and opinions they are the premiers at seeing themselves hard done by.

Read the reaction to Baker's treatment on their board...in the main, mind -boggling tripe.

They think the AFL has it in for them, rather than being grateful for their easy draw/fixturing.

 

[The Panther]

Don't understand how that would have us 6th to 8th?

The majority of your wins have been against Bottom 8 cannon fodder. Without the leg up, you would be around the 5th to 8th range.

 

[AFaiL]

Probably an issue you should raise with your clubs admin champ. Considering playing Collingwood at home is at the top of your clubs wish list each year. Quite often I see the supporters of minnow clubs are the first to complain about our draw, neglecting the important fact that we prop their insipid finances up each year.

I don't understand?

why should I speak with the admind of St Kilda? I wasn't referring to them at all.

I don't think it is factually correct to say that St Kilda requests a home game against Collingwood every year. I mean, when we play you at home, it's at Etihad - if we were making the request for money, it would be to play you at home at the MCG to maximise profits as we know we could fill Etihad against you, no matter who is the home team.

You'll find North Melbourne, the Dogs and Melbourne request the extra games for money. Apart from that, no other clubs want/need to make the request. Maybe you like to pretend that everyone does so as to boost your ego? Is that a possibility?

 

[AFaiL]

The majority of your wins have been against Bottom 8 cannon fodder. Without the leg up, you would be around the 5th to 8th range.

But, with all respect, we won every encounter against all top 4 teams (bar 1), so, with us playing against more top 4 sides as per your request, that would only increase our number of wins. Do you understand?

I am happy to go into more detail

Why is it now 5th to 8th? You have changed your opinion from 6th to 5th...

 

[The Panther]

But, with all respect, we won every encounter against all top 4 teams (bar 1), so, with us playing against more top 4 sides as per your request, that would only increase our number of wins. Do you understand?

On that logic, that is given St. Kilda's record against Top 4 sides, you're contradicting your initial point about Collingwood being advantaged given their travel fixtures. You're not very smart are you?

 

[sunnyTEE]

I don't understand?

why should I speak with the admind of St Kilda? I wasn't referring to them at all.

I don't think it is factually correct to say that St Kilda requests a home game against Collingwood every year. I mean, when we play you at home, it's at Etihad - if we were making the request for money, it would be to play you at home at the MCG to maximise profits as we know we could fill Etihad against you, no matter who is the home team.

You'll find North Melbourne, the Dogs and Melbourne request the extra games for money. Apart from that, no other clubs want/need to make the request. Maybe you like to pretend that everyone does so as to boost your ego? Is that a possibility?

I don't get it, I am factually incorrect based on your personal opinion of St Kildas inner workings coupled with some horrendous reasoning?

If your club is serious about its bottom line, which I am sure it is, then it would be grossly poor management to not request a home game against us. Quite apt then infact that you proceeded to ego's, a suggestion would be to taper yours enough to admit your club is a financial minnow that is forced into requests that directly support and affect our travel, just so you can earn a buck.

P.S - when you contact you admin, thank them for me.

 

[Invigoration]

Bit weird that last years Grand Finalists don't play each other twice.

 

[AFaiL]

On that logic, that is given St. Kilda's record against Top 4 sides, you're contradicting your initial point about Collingwood being advantaged given their travel fixtures. You're not very smart are you?

That makes no actual sense and you seem to be connecting 2 irrelevant points.

Where did I say Collingwood were advantaged by their travle fixture? Please, quote me. I jus asked for it to be included. I don't know their travel requirements for 2010 and was interested to know. You are the only one who has said they have received a benefit from their fixture. Very interesting - your subconscience speaking possible?

My point still stands - if we had played Geelong twice and the bulldogs twice - that would invariable add up to 2 more wins going by 2010's indicators, which is all we can go by.

 

[AFaiL]

Bit weird that last years Grand Finalists don't play each other twice.

You're telling me.

 

[The Panther]

Where did I say Collingwood were advantaged by their travle fixture? .

Travel compared to other Victorian clubs

You are a failure allround aren't you?

 

[AFaiL]

I don't get it, I am factually incorrect based on your personal opinion of St Kildas inner workings coupled with some horrendous reasoning?

If your club is serious about its bottom line, which I am sure it is, then it would be grossly poor management to not request a home game against us. Quite apt then infact that you proceeded to ego's, a suggestion would be to taper yours enough to admit your club is a financial minnow that is forced into requests that directly support and affect our travel, just so you can earn a buck.

P.S - when you contact you admin, thank them for me.

I didn't say you were factually incorrect period, just stated I think it would be. I mean, do you have the facts on hand? A link? A source? The only common knowledge is that the Dogs, Dees and Roos request the games.

I am not going to massage your ego by responding to any of those claims about St Kilda being an (and im paraphrasing here) inferior club etc. We do ok, and don't need certain fixturings to survive. But your care and attention is acknowledged and welcomed.

 

[AFaiL]

You are a failure allround aren't you?

No, I clearly am not.

You should quote the whole thing, and do so correctly.

I asked for a comparison to other Victorian clubs travel, that is all. I never, ever said your travel made you better off than other Vic clubs - I was just curious, and nobody has provided me with the information yet.

Once again, it seems like you subconscience is talking very loudly? Do you feel that you gain a benefit from your travel schedule? I have no opinion on the matter yet, I don't know the facts.

Maybe, it is you who have failed?

 

[Zahki]

My point still stands - if we had played Geelong twice and the bulldogs twice - that would invariable add up to 2 more wins going by 2010's indicators, which is all we can go by.

I don't think that just because you beat the Dogs and Geelong once you could pencil in 2 wins if you play them again. Lets instead say that if you did play them again you'd be much more likely to drop one of them than you would against Richmond, and in all liklihood your position on the ladder would be slightly lower.