Club History Before the Crows, there was the Redlegs

[RussellEbertHandball]

You might want to read this. Many years ago - shit 2005, I posted most of the chapter 20 titled “The End of The Cold War” from Gary Linnell’s, 1995 book, FOOTBALL LTD The Inside Story of the AFL. It is a great book that documents the growth of the suburban VFL into the AFL. It’s the best footy book I’ve read and is a great reference source. The rest of the 3 page thread is also worth reading.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-join-the-afl.208042/page-2#post-4157625

 

[GremioPower]

@GreminoPower do Gremino have a team in the national Seire A league and one in the state league of Rio Grande do Sul and/or in the city based league in Porto Alegre?

No. Porto Alegre's championship ended in 1962. Brazilian state leagues go on, though, up to today. Teams field their best players in the state leagues, even though they have lost prestige since the mid-60's.

Someday, I will be able to make parallels between Footy History and Brazilian soccer History. Then, I can enter in more details.

If they have another team in the state and/or city league, how does that work with respect to movement of players and player contracts? Are the players independent of the national league squad or is it a mix or is it all one club and players can progress thru all grade and teams.

Some clubs do have reserve teams. They play in state lower divisions. Contracts work like AFL, as far as I can tell.

Also if you have teams in state and/or city leagues are their jealousies from those state and/or city league teams that national league players who are paid full time wages play and dont play in the national league team play against part time footballers who get paid smaller wages or almost nothing. Never got my head completely around Brasilian football structure.

Let's say that the partnership between small, medium, big, local, and/or national teams, state and federal FAs, and TV is awful. They could arrange the season in ways that it would be good for everybody, but no one seems able to realize they are all in this together. They can't see beyond their own belly buttons. It is ridiculous...

 

[SgtSchulz]

When the Crows entered the AFL, SANFL attendances dropped (except Port).

I bet that if Port entered in 1991, the SANFL would've seen temporary spike in attendances as other clubs jostled to prove themselves worthy as the second club.

 

[HaroldOliver]

GremioPower fyi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Championship_of_Australia

Championship of Australia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Championship of Australia was an Australian rules football tournament which was contested between football clubs from the Victorian, South Australian, West Australian and Tasmanian football leagues. The Championship took place three times in the 19th century and then from 1907 to 1914 with the exception of 1912 and every year from 1968 to 1975. All but two of the Championships were played in Adelaide and all of them occurred after the respective league seasons had ended.[1] The 1975 Championship of Australia was the last edition of the competition with the 1976 NFL Championship replacing the format, albeit for only one year with VFL clubs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Championship_of_Australia

List of SANFL premiers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SANFL_premiers

 

[Coobk001]

This is something I don't understand. Clubs didn't want Port to enter VFL, but accepted Crows. In practice, the result for the SANFL clubs would be the same, whether Adelaide or Port joined VFL: SANFL would become secondary in its own market. By creating a new club from scratch, SANFL teams actually ended up closing the door for them to join the league.

The boy gets it.

The SANFL were of the belief that they were the best competition in the land up until probably the late 60's to 70's. The state Vs state rivalry was supremely strong back then. SA v Victoria in particular. And this meant that as the VFL (Victorian League) started to become clearly the best they stole SA players, they paid more, they started thinking of expansion, whilst the SANFL was just happy playing in our own fish pond. The VFL started to expand into WA (West Coast) & Brisbane (Brisbane Bears/Lions) in 1987 and Sydney (Swans) in 1982. They then proclaimed themselves the 'A'FL, Suddenly anointing themselves the number 1 comp in the country. The PAFC could see what was coming, and along with Norwood we accepted overtures from the VFL teams over there to join their comp as it expanded. Then as soon as the SANFL heard we were turning our back on their competition and leaving it started WW3 in this state. The SANFL wanted more time to decide upon how to move forward, they apparently wanted till 1993 to review how SA would join the comp. But we weren't going to wait till then, nor were we going to risk being left behind, so we went for it. The rest is history.

The worst parts of the Crows rushed formation were the relegation of Norwood to forever just be a feeder club for the AFL, and that it allowed the SANFL to establish funding models from AFL which basically were bleeding all the money possible out of AFL footy and pumping it back into the SANFL. This was because rather than understanding that the AFL, and success in the AFL, should now be the priority of football in this state, they still believed that the SANFL was the most important level of football in this state.

Luckily when the time came for a 2nd AFL team to enter from SA, we won the licence ahead of Norwood-Sturt, and a cartel of North Adelaide, Central & the now merged Woodville & West Torrens. Unfortunately however just like the Crows the SANFL used our licence and existance to fund it's own agenda. Forcing us to play from their stadium, whilst basically taking most of the revenue. It led our club to real financial trouble until the SANFL basically started to hand back the money it took from us in 'handouts'.

At the same time eventually the conditions placed on us by the SANFL, for keeping a presence of the Port Magpies in the SANFL, backfired and they also started to see serious financial trouble. Luckily eventually the 'one club' push was able to bring the Magpies back into the Port Adelaide football club, resulting in significant financial uplifts and greater fan engagement. It also allowed the Magpies to eventually become our reserves team.

The move to the Adelaide Oval however was our greatest saviour, and especially the pressure that the move placed on the SANFL to take a lesser percentage of AFL revenue from our teams. This has meant greater crowds, greater revenue at the ground and a greater cut for us.

Port eventually got in, but now no other can! Is that right?!

Yes.

 

[SgtSchulz]

You might want to read this. Many years ago - shit 2005, I posted most of the chapter 20 titled “The End of The Cold War” from Gary Linnell’s, 1995 book, FOOTBALL LTD The Inside Story of the AFL. It is a great book that documents the growth of the suburban VFL into the AFL. It’s the best footy book I’ve read and is a great reference source. The rest of the 3 page thread is also worth reading.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-join-the-afl.208042/page-2#post-4157625

It's a great book. Love the part about Carlton trying to form their own super league.

 

[SgtSchulz]

You might want to read this. Many years ago - shit 2005, I posted most of the chapter 20 titled “The End of The Cold War” from Gary Linnell’s, 1995 book, FOOTBALL LTD The Inside Story of the AFL. It is a great book that documents the growth of the suburban VFL into the AFL. It’s the best footy book I’ve read and is a great reference source. The rest of the 3 page thread is also worth reading.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-join-the-afl.208042/page-2#post-4157625

Bruce Abernethy's book "Port to a Power" is also a good read.

 

[GremioPower]

GremioPower Norwood are basically the anti-Port. I'm sure you have equivalents in the round ball code you follow. Silvertails vs fibros in the language of NSW rugby league.

This is a historical perspective but basically Norwood represent the privileged of society, the doctors and lawyers of Adelaide. They are based in Adelaide's leafy eastern suburbs where the socio-economic ranking is high and all the attendant benefits of society accrue. Their children all go to college and build their advantage by knowing other members of society's elite.

Port Adelaide on the other hand is the working class embodiment, the blue singlet wearing navvies and the labourers of the docksides who fight and scrap for any advantage.

As you can imagine, these are very basic generalisations and now many children of the Port attend private schools while the Norwood zone has many troglodytes living in its foothills.

Still, this has always been the historical basis of any discussion of the relative standing of the clubs. Norwood have a rich history of premierships but most of these were won before the 1950s. Before Port's AFL entry and since 1950 Norwood won premierships in 1975, 1978, 1982, 1984. Port during the same time won premierships in 1951 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995 and 1996.

As you can see, Norwood's ongoing claim to be the greatest rival to Port Adelaide is built on shaky foundations. They are certainly Port's most traditional rival both over time and on class basis. But during the 1960s, 70s and 80s they were no more threatening than Sturt, Glenelg and even North Adelaide in patches.

SA football in this period was characterised by a Big 4 (Port, Norwood, Sturt and Glenelg) teams that were consistently in the finals. Port Adelaide experienced the 12 year drought from 1965-77 when the introduction of Woodville and Central District into the sanfl diluted Port's dominance and evened up the distribution of premierships. However, Port Adelaide - as it does - found a way to overcome this disadvantage and built itself back into the fearsome monster that haunted the dreams of all sanfl administrators in 1950s-60s.

Rivalries are based more on myth than on reality (Rangers-Celtic notwithstanding). Being anti-Port would be great for Norwood, if not for the Crows. If I understood correctly, Port is now the anti-Crows and vice-versa (Tradition v. Novelty; Organic v. Planned; Identity v. Compromise; etc.)

 

[GremioPower]

You might want to read this. Many years ago - shit 2005, I posted most of the chapter 20 titled “The End of The Cold War” from Gary Linnell’s, 1995 book, FOOTBALL LTD The Inside Story of the AFL. It is a great book that documents the growth of the suburban VFL into the AFL. It’s the best footy book I’ve read and is a great reference source. The rest of the 3 page thread is also worth reading.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-join-the-afl.208042/page-2#post-4157625

I will take a look!

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Rivalries are based more on myth than on reality (Rangers-Celtic notwithstanding). Being anti-Port would be great for Norwood, if not for the Crows. If I understood correctly, Port is now the anti-Crows and vice-versa (Tradition v. Novelty; Organic v. Planned; Identity v. Compromise; etc.)

Yes you're right because Port Adelaide dared to dream and spread its wings to a national competition beyond the borders of a state that still doesn't know how lucky it is to have it. Norwood are munching on leaves in St Peters wondering about that whole cocoon thing.

SA will not have a third AFL team and even if it did it wouldn't be Norwood.

 

[Grave Danger]

Norwood's special place in the South Australian football firmament is commemorated by them having both their colours represented in the Crows jumper - the other SANFL clubs have only one. Port Adelaide of course has none.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

And now Norwood and ex Norwood fans are stuck between supporting a 'club' created in a board room that is a mockery of their real footy roots yet who's image is a representation of the upper class conservatism that they aspire to or a real footy club that they respect for it's history bit who's working class roots they can't resonate with.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[SgtSchulz]

Yes you're right because Port Adelaide dared to dream and spread its wings to a national competition beyond the borders of a state that still doesn't know how lucky it is to have it. Norwood are munching on leaves in St Peters wondering about that whole cocoon thing.

SA will not have a third AFL team and even if it did it wouldn't be Norwood.

I'd say the maximum number of teams the AFL will ever have is 22.

Norwood zero chance to be one of those four.

My guesses are
- Tasmania
- NT
- NSW 3 & 4
- Far North Queensland
- ACT


There is no way Norwood offers more to the AFL than those prospects.

 

[GremioPower]

When the Crows entered the AFL, SANFL attendances dropped (except Port).

I bet that if Port entered in 1991, the SANFL would've seen temporary spike in attendances as other clubs jostled to prove themselves worthy as the second club.

They all joined the AFL with the Crows, it seems...

 

[Contested Marx]

Daughter: so why do we hate the crows so much if they're south australian too
Me: *lists reasons cited above*
Daughter: what is a Norwood

 

[Steve Dore]

View attachment 389322

 

[Needs Gravy]

 

[RossFC]

View attachment 389322

Anyone got that picture of the guy with the red legs saying "let's get 5000!"?

 

[Magpiespower]

I'd say the maximum number of teams the AFL will ever have is 22.

Norwood zero chance to be one of those four.

My guesses are
- Tasmania
- NT
- NSW 3 & 4
- Far North Queensland
- ACT


There is no way Norwood offers more to the AFL than those prospects.

New Zealand and South Africa would even have a team before Norwoods, lol...

 

[1954]

My home state has half of all Brazilian Cavalry bases. Every year, there is a celebration on the first Sunday after the National Cavalry Day (May 10th). Here a pic of the charge (it always gives me goosebumps):

http://55ca7cd0-f8ac-0132-1185-7056...anet/site/upload/news_image/2014/05/20046.jpg

There is actual footage on the internet of the Australian Light Horse approaching Beersheba.

Plus a number of movies have been made depicting the actual charge itself, the best of which ( in my opinion ) is 40,000 Horsemen, which was made around 20 years after the actual event and shows how the Aussies caught the German and Turkish artillery placements by surprise by moving quickly enough to get under the elevation of the guns, and once they got through it was a rout.

As an older Aussie who had relatives serve in both World wars, watching the light horsemen with emu feathers in their slouch hats going from a walk, to a trot, and then a full gallop, with bayonets drawn, or in the case of officers sabres, makes the hair on the back of the neck bristle.

Apparently the bullet riddled walls of the railway station and the water tower where the charge occurred are still there, in what is now modern day Israel.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Someday, I will be able to make parallels between Footy History and Brazilian soccer History. Then, I can enter in more details.

I look forward to that. sorry for initially misspelling your name and adding an n in there. I picked it up later.

Let's say that the partnership between small, medium, big, local, and/or national teams, state and federal FAs, and TV is awful. They could arrange the season in ways that it would be good for everybody, but no one seems able to realize they are all in this together. They can't see beyond their own belly buttons. It is ridiculous...

About jealousies I probably should have been more specific. There was a jealously that Port would go and play in the national competition both in 1990 and then in 1994 when we won the tender to go into the AFL. ( We won the tender in December 1994 thinking we would go into the AFL in 1996 but it wasn't until mid 1996 season that the AFL said we would go in for the 1997 season).

Port was split in 2 in late 1996. We wanted to stay as 1 club but the tender rules of 1994 said it had to be 2 separate clubs with little connection. It was like splitting Germany in 2, little difference at the start but massive difference 15 years later and the massive debate about who is the real Port Adelaide FC. I can give you 100 links to read about that. Our players who weren't drafted from the Port Adelaide SANFL team had to play for other SANFL clubs when they didnt play in the Port Adelaide AFL team. The crows were the same but they were a new team in 1991 and never had reserves and underage teams. They started as a team not a club and they represented all the SANFL clubs anyway.

Then in November 2010 there was a merger of the 2 Port Adelaides and we could share management personnel and marketing activities. Our players who didn't play for the Port Adelaide SANFL team before being drafted were still having to play for Norwood or Sturt etc if they didn't play in the AFL team. The crows finally woke up and realised they would be better off if they had their own reserves team in the SANFL, so in 2013 season the push started and by the end of 2013 season the SA Football Commission/SANFL approved a full reunification of Port - Germany style and the crows got their reserves team in the SANFL.

Then another lot of jealousies started mainly from SANFL supporters of the clubs but also some club officials at some clubs that it wasn't fair that fulltime footballers should be playing against part timers.

Were any Brasilian teams who progressed from a city or state league to play in the national Seire A competition force to be split in 2 and have one team in the national competition, and one in the city/state competition, and there was to be virtually no interaction as they were forced to became 2 clubs not the 1 club with a national team and its reserve team in the local city/state league??

 

[Grave Danger]

View attachment 389344

It may just be a close resemblance, but I reckon I bumped into that ginger with the beard in my work years ago - he spotted the Port Power (as we were called in the late 90's) sticker I had on my clip board, and I noticed the Camry Crows stickers all over his pencil case

 

[SgtSchulz]

The most beautiful thing to come out of Port being rejected the initial liscence but winning the second is that the reputations of those who blocked us were completely reliant on the profile of their clubs.

By introducing the Crows they effectively said that "ok so an SA state team is equivalent to a VFL club and our clubs are inferior". If they entered Port Adelaide and Norwood their historical profiles would be more intact in my opinion as you would have SANFL clubs competing against VFL clubs.

Alas the profile of those who played for Port Adelaide in the SANFL are maintained whereas those from other clubs will faded. Ala Graham Cornes.

The jibe Crows/Norwood fans most often use is that out SANFL history doesn't count which thereby means Norwood doesn't count as it relegated itself to second tier by promoting the Crows over us.

Hahahahahaha imbeciles

 

[RossFC]

Anyone got that picture of the guy with the red legs saying "let's get 5000!"?

Why yes...

 

[Steve Dore]

View attachment 389344

An article by Rucci from our predicted demise back in 2012 when the SNAFL were bleeding us dry.

It's bye bye Port Adelaide

"GREG Boulton stood before the masses on the second floor of the RB Quinn grandstand at Alberton and loudly declared: "There will be a Port Adelaide Football Club forever."

It was December 1994. He had earlier been at Football Park to hear SANFL president Max Basheer announce Port Adelaide had won the tender for the second Adelaide-based, SANFL-controlled AFL licence.

Norwood Football Club president Nerio Ferraro was reaching for a Penfold's Bin 28 as the Redlegs and its adopted cousins from Sturt counted the bill from their failed attempt to beat Port Adelaide to the AFL. He said: "Forever is a long time ...."

Now we've gt 58,000 members and Norwood have 3,000