Club History Before the Crows, there was the Redlegs

[edgie]

...and had just lost the PF in 2007.

Just lost the PF?

Oops, wrong picture. Hey did Tredders get a free for this?

 

[Papa G]

The problem for the SANFULL clubs is that they still act like it's 1987, not 2017.

They really need to become full blown community clubs, almost like the country model, with Football, netball, tennis, cricket, women's football all coming under the same community club umbrella. They really can't continue to survive as stand alone second tier football clubs. They need to be far more relevant to their local community and act as a central hub for their districts. In the old days they were that just that as stand alone football clubs, but the world has changed.

 

[edgie]

Why did AFL choose Gold Coast? Because of Port?

There was a bit of noise being made about the long term sustainability of existing interstate clubs in the AFL/VFL because we were on a downward spiral and every Tom, Dick, and Harry had the knives out for us, and we are and always will be the only one to base that on.

 

[Established1870]

The problem for the SANFULL clubs is that they still act like it's 1987, not 2017.

They really need to become full blown community clubs, almost like the country model, with Football, netball, tennis, cricket, women's football all coming under the same community club umbrella. They really can't continue to survive as stand alone second tier football clubs. They need to be far more relevant to their local community and act as a central hub for their districts. In the old days they were that just that as stand alone football clubs, but the world has changed.

One of them getting involved with the SA netball side is a good start (West due to stadium proximity?). Norwood could do more with our baseball team who play there and they can all take on a local cricket side in their area that play on their grounds during the summer. Would bring on more community involvement, could increase support for the local SANFL sides and maybe even an increase in attendance? Women's football is something every side in the SANFL should get involved with and maybe an added side from the TTG/Modbury/Golden Grove area for fixture balance?

You're right about what SANFL clubs need to do to survive and those ideas took me less than 2 seconds to think about which is sad because the SANFL have thought of less in just under 30 years.

There was a bit of noise being made about the long term sustainability of existing interstate clubs in the AFL/VFL because we were on a downward spiral and every Tom, Dick, and Harry had the knives out for us, and we are and always will be the only one to base that on.

Only dickheads across the road at West Lakes had the knives out when we were in the shit. Victorians saw low crowds and tarps and didn't understand a thing about the situation. Even then, a fair amount of the other mob I knew said the AAMI deal/SANFL influence was BS and would kill us both if we didn't get into AO.

 

[edgie]

...


Only dickheads across the road at West Lakes had the knives out when we were in the shit. Victorians saw low crowds and tarps and didn't understand a thing about the situation. Even then, a fair amount of the other mob I knew said the AAMI deal/SANFL influence was BS and would kill us both if we didn't get into AO.

The Fitzroy comparisons started in Vic

 

[raptalia]

I need to self disclose before someone else accuses me of negativity. Both my Mother in Law and Father in Law were Norwood supporters as is my wife and my son. I cop heaps at times but I also give heaps. In all my time of following footy in SA, I saw my first Port game in 1952, Norwood were in Port Adelaide's shadow and they knew it. Their supporters always spoke in terms of Norwood being a 'great' club yet it my time of following the SANFL it took them until 1975 to win a Premiership and until 1984 to better us in a GF!

I remember having a ding dong verbal with my Father in Law in his kitchen after Port beat Norwood at Norwood in the late sixties. It was a game in which a Norwood supporter threw a full can of coke at Fritzy Freeman in the forward pocket. I could not press my case to far because prior to WW2 my Father in Law had been a tent fighter and held a State Title. As Kenny Rogers sings, sometimes you have to know when to fold 'em.

One of my best mates is Marx Kretschmer who many will remember as a rugged Port player, a district cricketer, a lawn bowler and Bar Manager at the Port club in the 1970's. In 1959 Kretchy was involved in an incident on Norwood Oval with Ron Kneebone as a result Kneebone copped a well deserved elbow in the face. Kretchy would cop 20 games for it these days but back then it was not uncommon. I spoke at length to Kretchy about the incident and his take on the Norwood players of his day. Kretchy spoke in glowing terms about the likes G.F (Glen) Mc Mahon who later became a well known business identity but on the subject of Ron Kneebone he was pretty pointed. According to Kretchy Kneebone had gone to the press and given an exaggerated view of what happened and the events leading up to the incident. To that day at least Kretchy had never forgiven Ron. The leading football writer of the time was Lawrie Jervis who some years earlier had been introduced to the showers at Alberton by Tommy Williams and co. after Jervis had rubbished Port in the News. Naturally Jervis lapped up Kneebone's account of what happened and there is no doubt his article influenced the tribunal. On the reverse side I was playing bowls with Kretchy at Modbury one Saturday and we drew a rink with Lester Ross in it. We could not shut the pair up and it was great to hear them speak of the Port Norwood rivalry. Lester was a great bloke to talk with and spoke highly of the Port Club.

In more recent times I recall talking with Timbo Evans when he was Bar Manager at the Port Club in the late 1990's (I seem to know these Port Bar Managers quite well, cannot think why. We were having lunch one day and Timbo told me all about that 1984 Grand Final when Craig Balme hit him as Timmy went to shake hands at the start of the game. Timbo did not want to know Balme over that act and he was pretty scathing. A few years in and Craig Balme was appointed AFL Ruck Coach at Alberton. I often wondered if the two crossed paths.

Port and Norwood have been at it over the years but it is not all bad as we have Norwood to thank for the services of Norwood Life Member Keith Thomas though I choose to believe KT has made the grade despite being associated with Norwood. We also have Norwood to thank for the Big Fella who made the transition from Norwood to us in the 1930's. Oh and I almost forgot Bob Kingston who transferred from South Melbourne to Port via Norwood in the early 1970s. Have I forgotten anyone of note that Norwood have given us?

PS Just as well I fixed that typo up before someone thought I had seen a Bob Kingston play in 1870.

 

[Established1870]

The Fitzroy comparisons started in Vic

Victorians saw low crowds and tarps and didn't understand a thing about the situation x2

 

[raptalia]

The Fitzroy comparisons started in Vic

After our first game Brian Taylor made the following astute observation, Why did we get rid of Fitzroy when the mob we let in are no better?
Apologies if that is not verbatim but it is pretty close.

On the subject of North Melbourne's past they were with in a few hours of amalgamating with Fitzroy in 1996 but the AFL thought a move to a non traditional market was a better option. REH will know the exact detail but I think the Presidents of both clubs had signed a heads of agreement and only needed the AFL to sign off on the deal. I once thought I knew the situation re Fitroy's demise and Port's elevation but I was wrong and Fitzroy were stabbed in the back. I guess it was a sound business decision to move Fitzroy up north into a non traditional market and create a space for a second SA team. Port were on promise and were always going to go into the AFL but this killed two birds with a single thrust.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Port and Norwood have been at it over the years but it is not all bad as we have Norwood to thank for the services of Norwood Life Member Keith Thomas though I choose to believe KT has made the grade despite being associated with Norwood. We also have Norwood to thank for the Big Fella who made the transition from Norwood to us in the 1930's. Oh and I almost forgot Bob Kingston who transferred from South Melbourne to Port via Norwood in the early 1970s. Have I forgotten anyone of note that Norwood have given us?

PS Just as well I fixed that typo up before someone thought I had seen a Bob Kingston play in 1870.

KT just came home.

He was Port supporter growing up in Campbelltown and was zoned out to Norwood and played for their underage sides from 16 years of age. Russell Ebert was his hero. KT told me his first day at Alberton as CEO he saw Russell and approached him, but Russell ignored him and wandered what this Norwood plant was doing at the club. Didn't take KT long to win him over.

 

[edgie]

Victorians saw low crowds and tarps and didn't understand a thing about the situation x2

Not understanding is no excuse, especially when so many of their own teams have come a lot closer than we have.

 

[Contested Marx]

I need to self disclose before someone else accuses me of negativity. Both my Mother in Law and Father in Law were Norwood supporters as is my wife and my son.

in before LR accuses you of bad parenting.

 

[wannabejack]

Certified Legendary Thread

Started reading this thread from the beginning again.

 

[GreyPower]

I need to self disclose before someone else accuses me of negativity. Both my Mother in Law and Father in Law were Norwood supporters as is my wife and my son. I cop heaps at times but I also give heaps. In all my time of following footy in SA, I saw my first Port game in 1952, Norwood were in Port Adelaide's shadow and they knew it. Their supporters always spoke in terms of Norwood being a 'great' club yet it my time of following the SANFL it took them until 1975 to win a Premiership and until 1984 to better us in a GF!

I remember having a ding dong verbal with my Father in Law in his kitchen after Port beat Norwood at Norwood in the late sixties. It was a game in which a Norwood supporter threw a full can of coke at Fritzy Freeman in the forward pocket. I could not press my case to far because prior to WW2 my Father in Law had been a tent fighter and held a State Title. As Kenny Rogers sings, sometimes you have to know when to fold 'em.

One of my best mates is Marx Kretschmer who many will remember as a rugged Port player, a district cricketer, a lawn bowler and Bar Manager at the Port club in the 1970's. In 1959 Kretchy was involved in an incident on Norwood Oval with Ron Kneebone as a result Kneebone copped a well deserved elbow in the face. Kretchy would cop 20 games for it these days but back then it was not uncommon. I spoke at length to Kretchy about the incident and his take on the Norwood players of his day. Kretchy spoke in glowing terms about the likes G.F (Glen) Mc Mahon who later became a well known business identity but on the subject of Ron Kneebone he was pretty pointed. According to Kretchy Kneebone had gone to the press and given an exaggerated view of what happened and the events leading up to the incident. To that day at least Kretchy had never forgiven Ron. The leading football writer of the time was Lawrie Jervis who some years earlier had been introduced to the showers at Alberton by Tommy Williams and co. after Jervis had rubbished Port in the News. Naturally Jervis lapped up Kneebone's account of what happened and there is no doubt his article influenced the tribunal. On the reverse side I was playing bowls with Kretchy at Modbury one Saturday and we drew a rink with Lester Ross in it. We could not shut the pair up and it was great to hear them speak of the Port Norwood rivalry. Lester was a great bloke to talk with and spoke highly of the Port Club.

In more recent times I recall talking with Timbo Evans when he was Bar Manager at the Port Club in the late 1990's (I seem to know these Port Bar Managers quite well, cannot think why. We were having lunch one day and Timbo told me all about that 1984 Grand Final when Craig Balme hit him as Timmy went to shake hands at the start of the game. Timbo did not want to know Balme over that act and he was pretty scathing. A few years in and Craig Balme was appointed AFL Ruck Coach at Alberton. I often wondered if the two crossed paths.

Port and Norwood have been at it over the years but it is not all bad as we have Norwood to thank for the services of Norwood Life Member Keith Thomas though I choose to believe KT has made the grade despite being associated with Norwood. We also have Norwood to thank for the Big Fella who made the transition from Norwood to us in the 1930's. Oh and I almost forgot Bob Kingston who transferred from South Melbourne to Port via Norwood in the early 1970s. Have I forgotten anyone of note that Norwood have given us?

PS Just as well I fixed that typo up before someone thought I had seen a Bob Kingston play in 1870.

Some interesting stories there.

I just wanted to point out that you presumably are referring to Lester Ross Snr there, not jnr who played in the 1980s for Norwood.

My dad played country footy with Ross Snr back in late 60s, he sounds like a really interesting character.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

After our first game Brian Taylor made the following astute observation, Why did we get rid of Fitzroy when the mob we let in are no better?
Apologies if that is not verbatim but it is pretty close.

On the subject of North Melbourne's past they were with in a few hours of amalgamating with Fitzroy in 1996 but the AFL thought a move to a non traditional market was a better option. REH will know the exact detail but I think the Presidents of both clubs had signed a heads of agreement and only needed the AFL to sign off on the deal. I once thought I knew the situation re Fitroy's demise and Port's elevation but I was wrong and Fitzroy were stabbed in the back. I guess it was a sound business decision to move Fitzroy up north into a non traditional market and create a space for a second SA team. Port were on promise and were always going to go into the AFL but this killed two birds with a single thrust.

Yep the 2 boards had signed a document to look to merge - a non binding heads of agreement, but they never signed a final one, but they went to the AFL with the proposal, but the AFL didn't want it, they wanted to sure up Brisbane by merging them with Fitzroy. The AFL spun to the other clubs that it was financially better and that a Fitzroy-North team would be a dominate club and affect the other Melbourne clubs off field activities. All but 1 of the other 14 clubs voted against a Fitzroy-North merger.

The other clubs pissed their pants and thought a super club would emerge straight away on the field and then over time off it, and a lot of Melbourne based clubs were scared of being squeezed. The AFL also squeezed Fitzroy's major creditor - Nauru Insurance Company - into offering them a better deal if they approved the merger with Brisbane over North.

North were about to hit their peak years in 1996 so they would have became a super club on field. Brisbane Lions became that super club in early 2000's winning 2001-02-03 premierships.

All the facts are set out in this wiki page link. I have linked the Fitzroy-North merger part of the wiki page but it goes back to 1896 and the formation of the VFL and all proposals for new teams and merger proposals. GremioPower you might want to have a look at this page and see who was interesting in joining the national competition over the years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propo...th_Fitzroy_Kangaroos_Football_Club_.281996.29

These were 2 good articles written mid last year looking back 20 years to 1996 when the merger was on. According to the Herald Sun article
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...y/news-story/47bced22ba7e18a34baeb3def47d23d8

But for two small details — the size of the merged club’s players list and the fate of Lions president Dyson Hore-Lacy — Fitzroy could so easily merged with North Melbourne.

The Age article suggests it was more complicated than that
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...he-super-team-that-wasnt-20160507-gooqv5.html

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Just lost the PF?

Oops, wrong picture. Hey did Tredders get a free for this?

just, as in time, not just, as in on the scoreboard

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

• Port Adelaide before SANFL governance: 34 premierships, undisputed hegemon, big enough to promote to the AFL as the only existing non-Victorian club to do so.

• Port Adelaide during SANFL governance: flatlining, "tarps", "Tasmania", first club to finish 16th in a 17-team competition.

• Port Adelaide after SANFL governance: bumper crowds, profitable, forging new markets domestic and international, always competitive at a bare minimum.

It's almost as if the SANFL had no f***ing business meddling in our affairs.

Post of the year!

 

[Steve Dore]

After our first game Brian Taylor made the following astute observation, Why did we get rid of Fitzroy when the mob we let in are no better? ...

Yeah, very astute observation but he was basing it on a very small sample size.

I remember Kevin Sheedy saying something a long the lines of "The [other] AFL clubs will come to rue the day they let Port Adelaide into the competition" after Essendon beat us by 5 goals in round 2.

It took us three games in the AFL to get our first win and we ended up with 10 wins and a draw. By round 5 we were in the 8 and we missed finals on percentage. In their last three years in the AFL Fitzroy only won a total of 8 games with only 1 win in their final season. In their last 10 years in the AFL they only won 10 or more games in a season twice and it was 11 years since they made the finals. We played finals in only our third season.

 

[Rexie J]

I need to self disclose before someone else accuses me of negativity. Both my Mother in Law and Father in Law were Norwood supporters as is my wife and my son. I cop heaps at times but I also give heaps. In all my time of following footy in SA, I saw my first Port game in 1952, Norwood were in Port Adelaide's shadow and they knew it. Their supporters always spoke in terms of Norwood being a 'great' club yet it my time of following the SANFL it took them until 1975 to win a Premiership and until 1984 to better us in a GF!

I remember having a ding dong verbal with my Father in Law in his kitchen after Port beat Norwood at Norwood in the late sixties. It was a game in which a Norwood supporter threw a full can of coke at Fritzy Freeman in the forward pocket. I could not press my case to far because prior to WW2 my Father in Law had been a tent fighter and held a State Title. As Kenny Rogers sings, sometimes you have to know when to fold 'em.

One of my best mates is Marx Kretschmer who many will remember as a rugged Port player, a district cricketer, a lawn bowler and Bar Manager at the Port club in the 1970's. In 1959 Kretchy was involved in an incident on Norwood Oval with Ron Kneebone as a result Kneebone copped a well deserved elbow in the face. Kretchy would cop 20 games for it these days but back then it was not uncommon. I spoke at length to Kretchy about the incident and his take on the Norwood players of his day. Kretchy spoke in glowing terms about the likes G.F (Glen) Mc Mahon who later became a well known business identity but on the subject of Ron Kneebone he was pretty pointed. According to Kretchy Kneebone had gone to the press and given an exaggerated view of what happened and the events leading up to the incident. To that day at least Kretchy had never forgiven Ron. The leading football writer of the time was Lawrie Jervis who some years earlier had been introduced to the showers at Alberton by Tommy Williams and co. after Jervis had rubbished Port in the News. Naturally Jervis lapped up Kneebone's account of what happened and there is no doubt his article influenced the tribunal. On the reverse side I was playing bowls with Kretchy at Modbury one Saturday and we drew a rink with Lester Ross in it. We could not shut the pair up and it was great to hear them speak of the Port Norwood rivalry. Lester was a great bloke to talk with and spoke highly of the Port Club.

In more recent times I recall talking with Timbo Evans when he was Bar Manager at the Port Club in the late 1990's (I seem to know these Port Bar Managers quite well, cannot think why. We were having lunch one day and Timbo told me all about that 1984 Grand Final when Craig Balme hit him as Timmy went to shake hands at the start of the game. Timbo did not want to know Balme over that act and he was pretty scathing. A few years in and Craig Balme was appointed AFL Ruck Coach at Alberton. I often wondered if the two crossed paths.

Port and Norwood have been at it over the years but it is not all bad as we have Norwood to thank for the services of Norwood Life Member Keith Thomas though I choose to believe KT has made the grade despite being associated with Norwood. We also have Norwood to thank for the Big Fella who made the transition from Norwood to us in the 1930's. Oh and I almost forgot Bob Kingston who transferred from South Melbourne to Port via Norwood in the early 1970s. Have I forgotten anyone of note that Norwood have given us?

PS Just as well I fixed that typo up before someone thought I had seen a Bob Kingston play in 1870.

Great read I seem to recall the Kneebone/Kretscher incident happened during the 1st round of the 1958 season - Anzac Day in which the previous years grand finalists played. I was at the game.

The headline the following day was "I was King Hit"

Strangely enough, Kneebone was one of the toughest, hardest hitting players of his era. I worked with one bloke who played against him and he carries the scars to prove it.

 

[Established1870]

Not understanding is no excuse, especially when so many of their own teams have come a lot closer than we have.

I agree completely but in saying that I understand Victorians pissing on us. 99% of them knew jack about what was actually going on and it's in the nature of being a Victorian to not give a shit about what happens over here, whether rightly or wrongly. The Toyota Crows/SANFL crowd however can **** off forever as far as I'm concerned. Those pricks were the ones who tried ****ing us over and turning us into the Southern Power and all that crap.

 

[Andre]

If Norwood pushed hard they could potentially do it. Push aggressively to get people to games and sell out Norwood Oval every week. Again, they got just under 40k to a SANFL grand final. They've got supporters. I'd wager a fair number of them would switch to support the club closer to home. I don't see a 3rd SA club because of population statistics and lack of local finances, even though it is Norwood and their coterie would be far richer than most clubs. The Crows won't disband, that's financial suicide for everyone in the state who's related to football (us included). No other existing club outside Norwood in the country has a snow's chance in hell though of getting in aside from Southport who should've been the 17th GC side from the start.

Norwood coming in would have some effect on us (minimal support wise), but even though we've diversified out of state much more for sponsors it'd hurt in the short term.

Adelaide it would massively affect. There's many more Norwood fans following Adelaide and it's a massive overlap in 'perceived' demographics. Meaning Adelaide like to pitch themselves as the team for all SA, but especially for the upper crust. Right slap bang into Norwood. Either Adelaide cedes marketing that end of town (no chance) or they go to war. Within 3 years, we'd the biggest of the 3 clubs on and off field by a fair margin.

Long term it'd do no harm to Port. Showdowns would recede in importance, with a Port - Norwood rivalry. Any attempt to make a Crows - Norwood rivalry would be half arsed. Scheduling would be fun as well. Each side would want as many rounds as possible as the only side playing at AO in a weekend.

The SMA would like it though. An extra bunch of games, plus 4 more SA sides games (assuming each of the 3 SA sides plays the others twice, which is no given, as could mess up the AFL's 6/6/6 groupings for fixturing some years).

 

[Magpiespower]

KT told me his first day at Alberton as CEO he saw Russell and approached him, but Russell ignored him and wandered what this Norwood plant was doing at the club.

Lol '84 burns deep. Deep, man. Deep...

 

[Coobk001]

When you think about it, as an AFL feeder club, Norwood supporters hate being called that, we have not had that much out of Norwood over the years. Tom Jonas and Roger James are probably the standouts over a twenty year period. On the other hand we have taken a few spuds like Phillips, Daniels, Minson and Lower but that is possibly our fault for not picking a better nursery. What makes it worse is when you think of names like Thompson, Enright, Johncock, Pickett, Lycett who we could have picked up from a certain working class club.

Coaches count IMO - Bassett

 

[Coobk001]

Just lost the PF?

Oops, wrong picture. Hey did Tredders get a free for this?

lol did Tredders EVER get a free?

 

[simmo_bc]

After our first game Brian Taylor made the following astute observation, Why did we get rid of Fitzroy when the mob we let in are no better?
Apologies if that is not verbatim but it is pretty close.

On the subject of North Melbourne's past they were with in a few hours of amalgamating with Fitzroy in 1996 but the AFL thought a move to a non traditional market was a better option. REH will know the exact detail but I think the Presidents of both clubs had signed a heads of agreement and only needed the AFL to sign off on the deal. I once thought I knew the situation re Fitroy's demise and Port's elevation but I was wrong and Fitzroy were stabbed in the back. I guess it was a sound business decision to move Fitzroy up north into a non traditional market and create a space for a second SA team. Port were on promise and were always going to go into the AFL but this killed two birds with a single thrust.

For a Western Australian, Taylor sure has the Victorian arrogance if he made a comment in that regard.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

A club in the Gold Coast in QLD who are pretty much their version of us in state league terms. They have fairly big support for a club from that part of Australia, are well established and tried pushing to be the GC's AFL club before. They had 20,000 members at one stage and IIRC are the richest club outside the AFL. If they were admitted as Gold Coast then that shit factory wouldn't have most of the problems it does now...

That 20,000 members (Edit their 2016 annual report says 55,000 members) and it might be more, aren't football members they are the people that pay $20/year so the can go to the Sharks Leagues Club and use the poker machines and eat there to get the cheap meals and also to get discounts on the bands/singers/shows they put on. They have a huge function room that can host over a 1,000 people. That's why they had $20 million in the bank in 2003 and started talking about buying an AFL licence. They are really now a poker machine licensed club business that has a football club attached to it. It wasn't always that way. They started in 1961, built a couple of small licensed venue in the 1970's and 1980's over the next 25 years and then moved to their current home when in 1988 when they secured a 50 year crown lease for 30 acres of land to build an oval and a social/licensed venue. Ironically it was supposed to be the home of Rugby League on the Gold Coast. Some benefactor kicked in $2mil to help the development and then in 1992 Queensland government allowed poker machines for sporting clubs in 1992 and they went from 18 machines to 160 very quickly and now has over 300.

They are in partnership with the GC Suns. They are major sponsors via The Sharks Leagues Club. the first chairman/president of the Suns came from his involvement with the Southport (Sharks) FC.

The Suns have their after match functions and other major functions at Sharks Leagues Club although that might change. The Suns have got these massive new facilities next to their stadium thanks to the 2018 Commonwealth Games and building a multi-sports indoor facility next to the stadium. I went to the Suns v WCE game in early June and as my sister and brother inlaw are members they were able to invite me to the opening of the new facilities and they had their first members function there. Sharks Leagues club is also the official away game function room for Suns fans to watch away games. Here is how Southport Sharks explain their partnership with the Suns starting in 2008 to present day.

http://southportsharks.com.au/page/patron-partnership