Club History Before the Crows, there was the Redlegs

[GremioPower]

They already sort of do wear the Fitzroy guernsey for Melbourne games - they just need to swap the Lion for the FFC insignia.

That would make all the difference.

 

[GremioPower]

I like the Lions - Swans heritage match but not sold on the rest.

Sent from mTalk

The original Fitzroy already plays in VAFA. If this is an actual merger, that would be a proper way of doing it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

For a Western Australian, Taylor sure has the Victorian arrogance if he made a comment in that regard.

He was about 17 when he got to Richmond. Has spent 35 or so years in Melbourne.

 

[foxport]

I can vaguely recall in the early seventies Port were scheduled to play Norwood in a final at Norwood Oval. In those days football was only ever played on Saturday afternoon at 2.20pm and no one had heard of a double header. I think this was at the beginning of the final five system and they could not use Adelaide Oval as a venue for all games. Fos was coaching us and I can vividly remember Teddy McMahon, who was our Head Trainer and a tally clerk on the wharves, threatening to call the boys out if the League did not reschedule the game. I think the game went ahead and we may even have won but I know there was no strike over it. Maybe someone else can remember the finer detail.

The episode did illustrate how much power Norwood exerted with the corridors of the SANFL and how we were up against it when it came to programming, country zones etc. The fact that we got the Far West Coast while Norwood had to make that arduous journey from the Parade to Murray Bridge illustrates the point. Norwood still have a big say today if you look at the SANFL Commission and you can bet they had a big say in that ludicrous SANFL/AFL Reserves deal.

Yeah I was at that game, it was the 1973 elimination final. The first year of the final five 17500 jammed into Norwood oval,we got beat.
I think the reasoning was it was the closest to the city and easy to get to .North and Sturt played at Adelaide on the same day.
Norwood 23-13 Port 17-13 (17734)
Norwood also got to play the first semi at home but lost to North by 5 points.

 

[PAFC04]

The most beautiful thing to come out of Port being rejected the initial liscence but winning the second is that the reputations of those who blocked us were completely reliant on the profile of their clubs.

By introducing the Crows they effectively said that "ok so an SA state team is equivalent to a VFL club and our clubs are inferior". If they entered Port Adelaide and Norwood their historical profiles would be more intact in my opinion as you would have SANFL clubs competing against VFL clubs.

And effectively caused the end of State Of Origin....

 

[GremioPower]

Norwood coming in would have some effect on us (minimal support wise), but even though we've diversified out of state much more for sponsors it'd hurt in the short term.

Adelaide it would massively affect. There's many more Norwood fans following Adelaide and it's a massive overlap in 'perceived' demographics. Meaning Adelaide like to pitch themselves as the team for all SA, but especially for the upper crust. Right slap bang into Norwood. Either Adelaide cedes marketing that end of town (no chance) or they go to war. Within 3 years, we'd the biggest of the 3 clubs on and off field by a fair margin.

Long term it'd do no harm to Port. Showdowns would recede in importance, with a Port - Norwood rivalry. Any attempt to make a Crows - Norwood rivalry would be half arsed. Scheduling would be fun as well. Each side would want as many rounds as possible as the only side playing at AO in a weekend.

The SMA would like it though. An extra bunch of games, plus 4 more SA sides games (assuming each of the 3 SA sides plays the others twice, which is no given, as could mess up the AFL's 6/6/6 groupings for fixturing some years).

I don't think "Any attempt to make a Crows - Norwood rivalry would be half arsed", precisely because it would be a family feud. Norwood would make a huge effort to prove themselves something distinct from the Crows, while Adelaide would despise them because they left the family. It would be nasty! Of course, for us, outsiders, it wouldn't make much sense; but, for them, insiders, it would mean a lot!

Norwood-Adelaide-Port would make an intersting three-way rivalry.

 

[edgie]

Wasn't the first West Coast game in Perth a curtain raiser to the WAFL?

Sent from mTalk

 

[GremioPower]

Tazmania should have a team, but geography kills them. Taz should build its capital in the middle of the island, put the Tazmania State University campus there, aling with the Tazmania Oval. Then, they COULD get a team. Long shot...

South Australia deserves a third team. Norwood could be this team, but economically I have no idea a third team would be feasible. Same about WA...

 

[raptalia]

Yeah I was at that game, it was the 1973 elimination final. The first year of the final five 17500 jammed into Norwood oval,we got beat.
I think the reasoning was it was the closest to the city and easy to get to .North and Sturt played at Adelaide on the same day.
Norwood 23-13 Port 17-13 (17734)
Norwood also got to play the first semi at home but lost to North by 5 points.

Thanks for that, I remember how happy I was when North beat Norwood at Norwood Oval the following week. Norwood Oval was probably used because of it's capacity, location, grandstands etc. Football Park had just been opened and the League did not use it for finals until 1974 so as you say Norwood Oval was probably seen as the next best option. It didn't matter that they were ceding Norwood a final at their home ground. Imagine the hue and cry if the game had been played at Alberton and we fronted up at Alberton the following week. It was Foster's last year as Coach and Jack took over the following year. It is all coming back now. Of course having Don Brebner, a former Norwood player and long stand Norwood Committeman, as President of the SANFL would not have influenced the decision?

Norwood were great manipulators and I can always remember my father, who was the colour steward for Port, telling me that before each game the General Managers, as they were in those days, would toss a coin over the phone and call for the colour shorts to be worn at neutral venues. The Big Fella accepted the call from every other CEO except Norwood's Wally Miller who he did not trust. Miller's clandestine negotiations with the AFL in 1990 proved Bob McLean to be right on that score.

Thanks again foxport for filling in some gaps. It brings back memories doesn't it?

 

[raptalia]

Tazmania should have a team, but geography kills them. Taz should build its capital in the middle of the island, put the Tazmania State University campus there, aling with the Tazmania Oval. Then, they COULD get a team. Long shot...

South Australia deserves a third team. Norwood could be this team, but economically I have no idea a third team would be feasible. Same about WA...

Hey this is Australia not Brazil Gremio. Although the idea does have merit, confine all the pollies in an Aussie Brasilia in the middle of the Simpson Desert.

 

[SgtSchulz]

Norwood are generally really good with their history but when it comes to 1980-1994 and their dealings with the VFL/AFL they go all...

 

[GremioPower]

Hey this is Australia not Brazil Gremio. Although the idea does have merit, confine all the pollies in an Aussie Brasilia in the middle of the Simpson Desert.

You have built Canberra first! My point couldn't be more Australian.

 

[raptalia]

You have built Canberra first! My point couldn't be more Australian.

You are right and an astute observation, Brasilia and Canberra were both purpose built federal capitals. Brasilia is probably more spectacular as it was built in the 1950's and with population of over 2.5M it is much bigger than Canberra.

 

[simmo_bc]

Thanks for that, I remember how happy I was when North beat Norwood at Norwood Oval the following week. Norwood Oval was probably used because of it's capacity, location, grandstands etc. Football Park had just been opened and the League did not use it for finals until 1974 so as you say Norwood Oval was probably seen as the next best option. It didn't matter that they were ceding Norwood a final at their home ground. Imagine the hue and cry if the game had been played at Alberton and we fronted up at Alberton the following week. It was Foster's last year as Coach and Jack took over the following year. It is all coming back now. Of course having Don Brebner, a former Norwood player and long stand Norwood Committeman, as President of the SANFL would not have influenced the decision?

Norwood were great manipulators and I can always remember my father, who was the colour steward for Port, telling me that before each game the General Managers, as they were in those days, would toss a coin over the phone and call for the colour shorts to be worn at neutral venues. The Big Fella accepted the call from every other CEO except Norwood's Wally Miller who he did not trust. Miller's clandestine negotiations with the AFL in 1990 proved Bob McLean to be right on that score.

Thanks again foxport for filling in some gaps. It brings back memories doesn't it?

So outside of the Adelaide Oval and Footy Park, was Norwood Oval generally considered the best suburban ground in those days? Aside from car parking, which has always been a nightmare at that Oval, I always found it a bit too claustrophobic for me.

 

[Rexie J]

So outside of the Adelaide Oval and Footy Park, was Norwood Oval generally considered the best suburban ground in those days? Aside from car parking, which has always been a nightmare at that Oval, I always found it a bit too claustrophobic for me.

That's a bit like asking if it's better to be hit by a 20 tonne truck rather than a 25 tonner That wall on the western boundary

Crowd wise it always seemed to be the noisiest mainly due to it's small size and made it claustrophobic as you say. Probably purely from a playing surface, the little used but neutral ground was the Kensington oval. Primitive facilities all round. Norwood High A and B teams trained there.

Alberton was still the best of them all - with a hint of bias

In the mid 60s there was always a huge problem with footys being kicked into the adjacent primary school grounds. The caretaker, an obnoxious little person refused to return them with the inevitable involvement of the local cops who were just across the road. Parking in people's yards. across driveways, football at Norwood was never boring.

 

[1954]

Yeah I was at that game, it was the 1973 elimination final. The first year of the final five 17500 jammed into Norwood oval,we got beat.
I think the reasoning was it was the closest to the city and easy to get to .North and Sturt played at Adelaide on the same day.
Norwood 23-13 Port 17-13 (17734)
Norwood also got to play the first semi at home but lost to North by 5 points.

My memories of the 1973 season were that the Maggies limped into 5th spot after a number of huge smackings during the year, including at least one absolute belting by centrals.
It was the season that Fos tried Russell Ebert at chb, and that unfortunately wasn't a success.

We had recruited a bloke named Jim Haines, a tough as teak West Aussie, who after an extended clearance wrangle the Maggies got from South Melbourne.

He was definitely tough, but he couldn't run out of sight on a dark night, and the deadlegs exploited his, and a number of other Maggie players lack of pace in that elimination final, big time.

The game was the last of Haine's 9 for the club, and there were a few others, including Neville Thiele who unfortunately finished his Maggie career on 96 games, that got the dcm when Jack Cahill took over.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

My memories of the 1973 season were that the Maggies limped into 5th spot after a number of huge smackings during the year, including at least one absolute belting by centrals.
It was the season that Fos tried Russell Ebert at chb, and that unfortunately wasn't a success.

We had recruited a bloke named Jim Haines, a tough as teak West Aussie, who after an extended clearance wrangle the Maggies got from South Melbourne.

He was definitely tough, but he couldn't run out of sight on a dark night, and the deadlegs exploited his, and a number of other Maggie players lack of pace in that elimination final, big time.

The game was the last of Haine's 9 for the club, and there were a few others, including Neville Thiele who unfortunately finished his Maggie career on 96 games, that got the dcm when Jack Cahill took over.

That was also the first year of the final 5 series.

Port finished 4th and Norwood 5th. Norwood made the finals by beating Port at Norwood Oval by 6 goals in the last minor round game and Centrals lost to North Adelaide. Norwood scraped into 5th on percentage ahead of 6th placed Centrals.

As it was the first time the final 5 finals system was used, two finals had to be played on the same day. 2 v 3 played at Adelaide Oval and 4 v 5 was played where? You guessed it, Norwood Oval. Norwood came 5th and played their first final on their home ground against the team that came 4th. Two weeks in a row Port had to play Norwood at Norwood Oval. Norwood duly won the final by almost the exact margin the won the round 21 game.

Farce.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Thanks for that, I remember how happy I was when North beat Norwood at Norwood Oval the following week. Norwood Oval was probably used because of it's capacity, location, grandstands etc. Football Park had just been opened and the League did not use it for finals until 1974 so as you say Norwood Oval was probably seen as the next best option. It didn't matter that they were ceding Norwood a final at their home ground. Imagine the hue and cry if the game had been played at Alberton and we fronted up at Alberton the following week. It was Foster's last year as Coach and Jack took over the following year. It is all coming back now. Of course having Don Brebner, a former Norwood player and long stand Norwood Committeman, as President of the SANFL would not have influenced the decision?

Norwood were great manipulators and I can always remember my father, who was the colour steward for Port, telling me that before each game the General Managers, as they were in those days, would toss a coin over the phone and call for the colour shorts to be worn at neutral venues. The Big Fella accepted the call from every other CEO except Norwood's Wally Miller who he did not trust. Miller's clandestine negotiations with the AFL in 1990 proved Bob McLean to be right on that score.

Thanks again foxport for filling in some gaps. It brings back memories doesn't it?

It was a shocking decision.

Footy Park opened in 1974, it wasn't finished even then and some would argue it never was but I have many happy memories of premierships at that much-maligned ground.

Port Adelaide won the first final played at Footy park, beating Norwood by 26 points in the 1974 Qualifying Final.

 

[simmo_bc]

It was a shocking decision.

Footy Park opened in 1974, it wasn't finished even then and some would argue it never was but I have many happy memories of premierships at that much-maligned ground.

Port Adelaide won the first final played at Footy park, beating Norwood by 26 points in the 1974 Qualifying Final.

What was the surrounding area of footy park like at that point? Presumably a number of houses being built? I only know Footy Park as it is now with established houses surrounding the oval.

I've got some good memories of FP also. I remember when I was a little whipper snapper going to a couple of escort cup grand finals with school, I think one year we played Glenelg and one year Woodville.

I find it strange that we didn't use, or weren't able to successfully negotiate with the SACA, to use AO for finals.

 

[Rexie J]

What was the surrounding area of footy park like at that point? Presumably a number of houses being built? I only know Footy Park as it is now with established houses surrounding the oval.

I've got some good memories of FP also. I remember when I was a little whipper snapper going to a couple of escort cup grand finals with school, I think one year we played Glenelg and one year Woodville.

I find it strange that we didn't use, or weren't able to successfully negotiate with the SACA, to use AO for finals.

The surrounding area, now West Lakes was sand dunes, covered in box thorn etc, swampy and a general dump. A now deceased mate who lived nearby often described mucking around in the area as a kid/youth.

 

[1954]

That was also the first year of the final 5 series.

Port finished 4th and Norwood 5th. Norwood made the finals by beating Port at Norwood Oval by 6 goals in the last minor round game and Centrals lost to North Adelaide. Norwood scraped into 5th on percentage ahead of 6th placed Centrals.

As it was the first time the final 5 finals system was used, two finals had to be played on the same day. 2 v 3 played at Adelaide Oval and 4 v 5 was played where? You guessed it, Norwood Oval. Norwood came 5th and played their first final on their home ground against the team that came 4th. Two weeks in a row Port had to play Norwood at Norwood Oval. Norwood duly won the final by almost the exact margin the won the round 21 game.

Farce.

Correct Ford, the Maggies did finish 4th at the end of the minor round, but with 11 wins and 10 losses for the season we weren't much better than the deadlegs, who finished on 10 and 11.
The Maggies total points scored for was only about 100 more than the points against for the entire season, so I still maintain that we limped into the finals.

The eventual premier Glenelg had only lost 1 minor round game, and the 2nd and 3rd teams, Sturt and North, only about 4 or 5, so even if we got past the deadlegs we weren't going to go deep in that finals series.

I couldn't agree more that it was farcical to have to play a team that finished lower, on its home ground in an elimination final though.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

That was also the first year of the final 5 series.

Port finished 4th and Norwood 5th. Norwood made the finals by beating Port at Norwood Oval by 6 goals in the last minor round game and Centrals lost to North Adelaide. Norwood scraped into 5th on percentage ahead of 6th placed Centrals.

As it was the first time the final 5 finals system was used, two finals had to be played on the same day. 2 v 3 played at Adelaide Oval and 4 v 5 was played where? You guessed it, Norwood Oval. Norwood came 5th and played their first final on their home ground against the team that came 4th. Two weeks in a row Port had to play Norwood at Norwood Oval. Norwood duly won the final by almost the exact margin the won the round 21 game.

Farce.

That game was the first finals game I ever watched in full on TV when the replay came on, on a Saturday night ie start to finish of what ch 9 broadcasted. I remember watching snippets of the 1970 PF against Glenelg when I spent a night at my grandparents place in school holidays, and a bit of the 1972 GF. So even though we lost, it holds a special place in my Ports memories.

 

[simmo_bc]

Correct Ford, the Maggies did finish 4th at the end of the minor round, but with 11 wins and 10 losses for the season we weren't much better than the deadlegs, who finished on 10 and 11.
The Maggies total points scored for was only about 100 more than the points against for the entire season, so I still maintain that we limped into the finals.

The eventual premier Glenelg had only lost 1 minor round game, and the 2nd and 3rd teams, Sturt and North, only about 4 or 5, so even if we got past the deadlegs we weren't going to go deep in that finals series.

I couldn't agree more that it was farcical to have to play a team that finished lower, on its home ground in an elimination final though.

Did North Adelaide underachieve in that era with only 2 premierships and quite possibly, the greatest player the game has ever seen?

 

[Eddie Dingle]

**** nord and gernelg and sturt sturt rub em in the dirt and shit on their faces and all the other campaigners.

Hate em all.

 

[Contested Marx]

Personally I can't wait for Gremio to create a thread "wow the inaugural crows team was full of glenelgs, what's the deal there?"