Bendigo FL discussion 2022

[Forest St End]

Not really, the majority of Strath players come through their juniors, they didn't go and buy big name players that often did they, whitsed was coming to the end of his playing career when he took over

Maybe initially but they got smashed then as well, they certainly spent heavily to get to the top.

 

[ROOTA#6]

Maybe initially but they got smashed then as well, they certainly spent heavily to get to the top.

Incorrect. Strath built nicely and through the development of junior players topped up with some quality recruiting have become what they are today.

If they hadn’t joined the Bendigo league from day 1 who knows where the club would be

 

[Del28562]

If you think those three leagues will merge in the next two years you are delusional. Reserves footy not existing in 5 years time? Come on mate it’s not that dier

Have a look at most reserves teams, there's plenty of +40 year old playing to keep the numbers, theres forfeits happening every week across the state for reserves footy.

The Loddon valley has 4 clubs that have juniors, north central have low junior numbers and golden rivers is down to 6 clubs, I'm sure all 3 leagues are thinking ahead

 

[Forest St End]

Incorrect. Strath built nicely and through the development of junior players topped up with some quality recruiting have become what they are today.

If they hadn’t joined the Bendigo league from day 1 who knows where the club would be

All true but also true that they spent a lot of money to win flags. I know exactly what their budget was in 2013, 14 and 15 and it was well beyond the original 160k salary cap, let alone what clubs have now.

If Maiden Gully does come in, it will be interesting to see what concessions AFLCV would give them in terms of points and salary. After consistently denying the country clubs further relief it won't go down well if they are seen to be Bendigo leaning again.

 

[evrock]

It’s pretty simple - The Bendigo League and AFLCV have failed to maintain the points system which is the only measure they have left to regulate the game. Strath / sandhurst / square / Gisborne have NO points pressure at all. This means that Maryborough / Castlemaine actually never have a chance. It’s over for the teams outside the fab 4 unless a re-set of the points is undertaken - clubs have made finals every year for 20 years and gone UP in points ——- what does this tell us ?? That all they want is a bendigo comp with bendigo based sides. At the end of the day the comp is dog shit if 3 out of the 5 games are already decided when you get in the car on a Saturday !

 

[bevsDoggies]

A

It’s pretty simple - The Bendigo League and AFLCV have failed to maintain the points system which is the only measure they have left to regulate the game. Strath / sandhurst / square / Gisborne have NO points pressure at all. This means that Maryborough / Castlemaine actually never have a chance. It’s over for the teams outside the fab 4 unless a re-set of the points is undertaken - clubs have made finals every year for 20 years and gone UP in points ——- what does this tell us ?? That all they want is a bendigo comp with bendigo based sides. At the end of the day the comp is dog s**t if 3 out of the 5 games are already decided when you get in the car on a Saturday !

Absolutely nailed it.

Watch this space. Was actually out in Bendigo last night with a few old school mates, who mentioned could be massive story brewing with a board spill by weeks end due to so many people being fed up with the league

 

[MortlockWatcher]

It’s pretty simple - The Bendigo League and AFLCV have failed to maintain the points system which is the only measure they have left to regulate the game. Strath / sandhurst / square / Gisborne have NO points pressure at all. This means that Maryborough / Castlemaine actually never have a chance. It’s over for the teams outside the fab 4 unless a re-set of the points is undertaken - clubs have made finals every year for 20 years and gone UP in points ——- what does this tell us ?? That all they want is a bendigo comp with bendigo based sides. At the end of the day the comp is dog s**t if 3 out of the 5 games are already decided when you get in the car on a Saturday !

How about top teams on 40
Mid-range clubs 42
Strugglers 45

The South West FL in WA are the only league to structure the points based on the previous season's ladder. It was introduced in 2012 and over the course of the 2013, 2014 and 2015 seasons, eight of the 10 clubs played finals football and seven clubs finished in the bottom three. It all came down to a points squeeze for being successful for a few seasons on end and the extra points allowed the strugglers a chance to gain an extra recruit or two from Perth or other SWFL clubs.

 

[Del28562]

How about top teams on 40
Mid-range clubs 42
Strugglers 45

The South West FL in WA are the only league to structure the points based on the previous season's ladder. It was introduced in 2012 and over the course of the 2013, 2014 and 2015 seasons, eight of the 10 clubs played finals football and seven clubs finished in the bottom three. It all came down to a points squeeze for being successful for a few seasons on end and the extra points allowed the strugglers a chance to gain an extra recruit or two from Perth or other SWFL clubs.

Square, Strath, hawk, Gisborne, square, sandy, south 35
Kyneton 38

Kangaroo flat 45

Maryborough 50
Castlemaine 50

This only works though if Ballarat, Goulburn valley, Geelong, metro ovens and Murray do the same, otherwise the league gets weaker as players will leave or they can't recruit as other leagues will have the upper hand. That's the problem with points and salaries if they are different throughout the state and not based on populations, uni etc

 

[Old bomber]

It’s pretty simple - The Bendigo League and AFLCV have failed to maintain the points system which is the only measure they have left to regulate the game. Strath / sandhurst / square / Gisborne have NO points pressure at all. This means that Maryborough / Castlemaine actually never have a chance. It’s over for the teams outside the fab 4 unless a re-set of the points is undertaken - clubs have made finals every year for 20 years and gone UP in points ——- what does this tell us ?? That all they want is a bendigo comp with bendigo based sides. At the end of the day the comp is dog s**t if 3 out of the 5 games are already decided when you get in the car on a Saturday !

I had a look back at 2021 season when you could see player points. Castlemaine, Maryborough and Kyneton all had 47 points to use. In the 5 rounds I looked at Castlemaine never used more than 27, Maryborough used between 30 and 35 and Kyneton used 40 most weeks. You can give them as many points as you like but they aren’t using what they have.
The top sides had 40 points and used most of them each week. Maybe if a team plays finals they loose a point. If you play in a grand final you loose 2.
As Trent has said. This will only work with other league’s doing the same or similar.

 

[Forest St End]

It’s pretty simple - The Bendigo League and AFLCV have failed to maintain the points system which is the only measure they have left to regulate the game. Strath / sandhurst / square / Gisborne have NO points pressure at all. This means that Maryborough / Castlemaine actually never have a chance. It’s over for the teams outside the fab 4 unless a re-set of the points is undertaken - clubs have made finals every year for 20 years and gone UP in points ——- what does this tell us ?? That all they want is a bendigo comp with bendigo based sides. At the end of the day the comp is dog s**t if 3 out of the 5 games are already decided when you get in the car on a Saturday !

Outstanding post, should be read out at the next league meeting.

The salary cap is an absolutely ineffective tool in country footy and does nothing so the points system has to be the equaliser.

Basically our points system is the equivalent of the AFL salary cap in terms of being the equalisation tool to keep teams in with a chance. What happens with the AFL salary cap? The lower teams don't get more but the good teams get hurt. If you win a flag in the AFL or have sustained success you can't fit all your players in the cap and inevitably lose one or two.

That should be a principle of the points system in the country as well. Slice points off teams that are successful and let's see how well all this talk about developing juniors actually stands up.

 

[Post padding]

I like the ideal of giving the struggling clubs extra points but is that the problem.

In the GV you can see the points the teams play with the two bottom teams in Shepp United and Tatura played with 14 points spare in a lot of their games.
So what is the point of handing out extra points if they ain’t using them.


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[ROOTA#6]

I like the ideal of giving the struggling clubs extra points but is that the problem.

In the GV you can see the points the teams play with the two bottom teams in Shepp United and Tatura played with 14 points spare in a lot of their games.
So what is the point of handing out extra points if they ain’t using them.


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In all honesty I believe that the points and salary caps cannot work alongside each other.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

The salary cap is a load of frogs--- and is a waste of effort for leagues or AFLV to police.

Clubs all know of many ways to dodge the cap and a significant number of clubs state-wide are already seemingly willing to risk going broke chasing a flag by overpaying the cap. Read almost any league's forum thread here and at least one club is currently or has recently been mentioned as a cap-breaker.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

[Forest St End]

I've said it before but where are these conversations at the AFL CV level?

This is the stuff they should be leading and yet we never hear a peep from them about it. A few people on a forum come up with more suggestions to repair the game than we've heard in 20 years of this rubbish system we were sold as being the best thing ever for clubs.

 

[ringo1]

In all honesty I believe that the points and salary caps cannot work alongside each other.

Blow them both up mate! A rebuild takes years and the fall just as long. If you look around the leagues over the past 6-7 years not much changes. A flawed system robbing clubs, players and committees of hope.

 

[Forest St End]

A

Absolutely nailed it.

Watch this space. Was actually out in Bendigo last night with a few old school mates, who mentioned could be massive story brewing with a board spill by weeks end due to so many people being fed up with the league

I've often heard this but no-one ever seems to go through with it.

The commission should also be in the gun, I've heard talk in the past of the clubs wanting to take the league back under the old model without AFL Victoria rule but I'm not sure that would be possible.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Someone I know who had dealings with AFLV in the past said to me that they are not interested in conducting reviews because a number of clubs usually respond unfavourably to them and not much change takes place afterwards.

Not really a good reason to drop the ball and walk away when it is your job.

When was the last review? It must have been Gippsland about 2017? That would be five years without proactivity from the peak body when it comes to strategic planning for grassroots football ... betcha they wouldn't be so lax when it comes to the precious little money-vacuum that is the Under 18s competition!

 

[Old bomber]

In all honesty I believe that the points and salary caps cannot work alongside each other.

You could fight to keep players in the past. Knock back a clearance and try to keep them. Now everyone now’s you put in a clearance and it goes through even for junior players.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I've often heard this but no-one ever seems to go through with it.

The commission should also be in the gun, I've heard talk in the past of the clubs wanting to take the league back under the old model without AFL Victoria rule but I'm not sure that would be possible.

Iirc a league or two in the Horsham region have moved away from afl vic admin and are happy to be unaffiliated if need be .

 

[MortlockWatcher]

I know that the Outer East and Picola leagues are currently unaffiliated.

Warrnambool & District were for a short time a couple of years ago.

Some of the Gippsland leagues have been looking at disaffiliate too - I believe that the West Gippsland clubs have given their league the green light to immediately disaffiliate should certain clubs be foisted upon them that they don't want.

 

[Del28562]

I like the ideal of giving the struggling clubs extra points but is that the problem.

In the GV you can see the points the teams play with the two bottom teams in Shepp United and Tatura played with 14 points spare in a lot of their games.
So what is the point of handing out extra points if they ain’t using them.


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I think if you're on the bottom of the ladder you're rebuilding, so you are playing all young locals on 1 point, most of the time.

The points system is there to promote playing locals and having a core 10-14 local a graders at your club. All of the teams that won a flag have this, the problem is it's easy for them to top up on recruits because they're all 1 pointers as well. If you're a potential recruit and you move to Bendigo and you've got Strath and flat offering the same money, you choose Strath every day of the week.

The top teams rarely get weaker, unless a heap leave after a flag. It's near impossible to recruit if you've being on the bottom for a few years, I'm not sure getting rid of the points system is going to help the bottom teams though, because players are more attracted to success.

If the points and salary is more even, better metro players are pushed out to the country, and I'd think that gives Castlemaine more chance than no cap and no points

 

[nesko_25]

Iirc a league or two in the Horsham region have moved away from afl vic admin and are happy to be unaffiliated if need be .

What about the PDFL Roar? Was it only the 1 year they were out, why did they opt back in (Think they're now back under AFL Vic)?

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Unless they signed the affiliation agreement on Friday they are not affiliated to AFLV.

The Shepp News were saying on Thurssday that there were some sticking points in the agreement that Picola didn't agree to.

 

[localfootyguru]

Some really interesting discussion here that should be going on at AFLCV. Unfortunately this isn’t the case as they are generally oblivious to the issues facing footy around the region and the high turnover of staff doesn’t help either. Whilst others may say the BFNL is going ok I think otherwise, same teams year after year up top and lack of foresight/ direction of growing footy in the area and supporting clubs that are struggling.

I keep going back to the lack of foresight in the northern growth corridor of Bendigo, whilst we are now talking about Maiden Gully, why wasn’t a BFNL club relocated/ established out at Epsom at the facility there, what a missed opportunity. At no time was this considered by those overseeing the game In the region. I also see the general waning interest in footy around Bendigo at finals time with the same teams competing. As a neutral supporter I get tired of the same teams dominating the competition each year, it does become boring.

With the points system, trust me it is a rort and has done nothing to improve competitions or their competitive nature. It isn’t just BFNL clubs that ‘play the game’ by offering other incentives to players to come to their respective club to play. The whole system is broken and to be honest we would be better off without it.

Unfortunately any review needs to be done by someone clearly removed from the competition as whatever the outcome the Bendigo based clubs won’t be supportive as they seem to like the way things remain which is consistent dominance of their competition. The ‘head in the sand’ attitude/ mentality is alive and well.

 

[Del28562]

Some really interesting discussion here that should be going on at AFLCV. Unfortunately this isn’t the case as they are generally oblivious to the issues facing footy around the region and the high turnover of staff doesn’t help either. Whilst others may say the BFNL is going ok I think otherwise, same teams year after year up top and lack of foresight/ direction of growing footy in the area and supporting clubs that are struggling.

I keep going back to the lack of foresight in the northern growth corridor of Bendigo, whilst we are now talking about Maiden Gully, why wasn’t a BFNL club relocated/ established out at Epsom at the facility there, what a missed opportunity. At no time was this considered by those overseeing the game In the region. I also see the general waning interest in footy around Bendigo at finals time with the same teams competing. As a neutral supporter I get tired of the same teams dominating the competition each year, it does become boring.

With the points system, trust me it is a rort and has done nothing to improve competitions or their competitive nature. It isn’t just BFNL clubs that ‘play the game’ by offering other incentives to players to come to their respective club to play. The whole system is broken and to be honest we would be better off without it.

Unfortunately any review needs to be done by someone clearly removed from the competition as whatever the outcome the Bendigo based clubs won’t be supportive as they seem to like the way things remain which is consistent dominance of their competition. The ‘head in the sand’ attitude/ mentality is alive and well.

What do you do though? Just go back to an open system where metro clubs had double the salary of country clubs, have coaches take 10+ players each time they change clubs, leaving the club they left in a world of hurt, have players shop themselves around to get the highest paycheck, at least that is stopped by the points system.

Maybe it needs a review to iron out a few things, there appears to be more players going from bottom clubs to top clubs in the same league, I'd think that should be worth more than getting an ex AFL player to your club, which generates more interest and more people coming to the footy, shouldnt AFL Vic be encouraging that. Maybe one ex AFL player per club is worth 0 points and outside the salary cap.

Metro and vafa should be on 32 points each, change it from under 19s to 18s, and play more locals.

Bendigo, Geelong, Ballarat & Albury/Wodonga finals teams should be 35 points. They have unis that keeps and attracts players.

Gv and Gippsland big town clubs 38 points
Further away from Melbourne and uni towns should be max 50.

You can't just have one league change, as if other major leagues don't it affects the bfl.

Also players from minor leagues under 24 should be 1 pointers going into a major league, major league players 31 years plus should be 1 point in a minor league.

Players that have played 7+ years at the same club, should be 1 point if they wish to go to another club in another league, to reward their commitment to one club.

If you go from one club to another in the same league it should be 4 points, plus 1 point for each spot on the ladder the club they're going to is above their current team.

Have a father son rule introduced to keep country clubs alive, if your dad aged 100 games of seniors, your son is a 1 pointer

Get rid of interleague, and have a champion club comp, with the 32 premiers of the previous year, having a knock out comp at the start of the next year with a 100k prize money and play the games as AFL curtain raisers where possible