Bendigo FL discussion 2023

[evrock]

Round 16 - Bendigo FNL

Equalisation at its best today

Seniors

Kyneton - 97 loss
Castlemaine - 125 loss
Maryborough- 125 loss
KFlat - 146 loss

Reserves

Kyneton - 33 loss
Castlemaine - 161 loss
Maryborough- 190 loss
KFlat - 51 loss

 

[AlburyE]

Round 16 - Bendigo FNL

Equalisation at its best today

Seniors

Kyneton - 97 loss
Castlemaine - 125 loss
Maryborough- 125 loss
KFlat - 146 loss

Reserves

Kyneton - 33 loss
Castlemaine - 161 loss
Maryborough- 190 loss
KFlat - 51 loss

So this is way changes are needed.

 

[AlburyE]

So this is way changes are needed.

This is why changes are needed.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The whole thing is a mess. All being done on a whim due to the agendas of certain Bendigo clubs.

Whilst Bendigo footy needs change the manner this is occurring is not a good approach. Very little thought or consultation into ensuring football in the region remains sustainable. Any new division 1 will still have the same issues that are currently being experienced with a gulf between top and bottom. The changes that are really needed are around points and the salary cap but that is all too hard to change.

it’s just a bulldozer type arrangement and no wonder many clubs are very cautious about what is occurring.

In regards to Gisborne, the matter of changing leagues is still hanging around regardless of what some article states. Depending on what happens with all the supposed changes, they could be in the Ballarat FNL in 2024. Considering the mess that is evolving, the bulldogs are keeping their options open. I know where I would rather be playing at this time.

AFL Central Victoria has no idea and had years to try and change footy in the region and now they are doing it like it’s 5 minutes until the end of the world. The whole approach is a schmozzle…

Would require acknowledgement of it being wrong and needing change .
This chat about new divisions etc seems to be deflecting from the very pertinent point you make .
Divisional structured comps within community football / netball will create more bad than good .
It will expedite the closure of clubs and is not the answer .

 

[BartSimpson]

Would require acknowledgement of it being wrong and needing change .
This chat about new divisions etc seems to be deflecting from the very pertinent point you make .
Divisional structured comps within community football / netball will create more bad than good .
It will expedite the closure of clubs and is not the answer .

The biggest question alone that needs to be answered is do they want an even where as best as possible any team is a chance to win in the day or do they want a comp with the best teams being of a higher standard and the lower teams being easybeats yesterday seemed to be a perfect advertisement between the best and the worst for all the talk going on at the minute the only way possible to even the comp up is reduce salary cap and points allocated to the top 5 teams rather than increase the bottom teams that will dilute the standard of the comp but there is no other way at all to give the others a chance to catch up

 

[Forest St End]

The biggest question alone that needs to be answered is do they want an even where as best as possible any team is a chance to win in the day or do they want a comp with the best teams being of a higher standard and the lower teams being easybeats yesterday seemed to be a perfect advertisement between the best and the worst for all the talk going on at the minute the only way possible to even the comp up is reduce salary cap and points allocated to the top 5 teams rather than increase the bottom teams that will dilute the standard of the comp but there is no other way at all to give the others a chance to catch up

This is exactly right. When you look at equalisation in the AFL it is based mostly on making it as hard as possible to keep a strong team together.

Slice points of the teams each year in order of ladder position and make it so they have to manage their team differently the next season. Make any player leaving a higher placed team for a lower placed team a 1 pointer. Reverse is 6. Don’t give loyalty discounts until 5 years with one club and then only 1 point.

Simple ways to use the existing tools to better effect.

The other thing that has become clear is how disconnected AFL Victoria and the commission, the league officials and the clubs all are from each other.

As someone said you’ve got the BFL chair complaining about the commission proposal when the board has done nothing but hurt clubs for 20 years.

I’d like to see the commission act like the AFL does. Make decisions and own them, don’t consult with leagues or clubs, just tell them this is how it will be and bad luck if you don’t agree.

You are never going to get all of those parties in any sort of agreement, there are too many vested interests and competing needs, so show some balls and lead.

 

[Forest St End]

For the sake of discussion I did another little exercise.

I took the initial points allocation for each team and adjusted it for each season based on the following:

1 - 3 on ladder lose -3, 2 and 1 respectively.

4-7 no change.

8 - 10 + 1,2,3 respectively

Plus -1 extra if team won flag from outside 1st place eg second place loses -3 instead of -2. Didn’t count covid years.

The results are:

Strath current allocation 40, my system 25, most used this year 34.

Golden Square current allocation 40, my system 31, most used 26.

Sandhurst current allocation 40, my system 33, most used 34.

Sth current allocation 43, my system 44, most used 37.

Eaglehawk current allocation 43, my system 28, most used 37.

Gisborne current allocation 40, my system 34, most used 34.

K Flat current allocation 46, my system 48, most used 42.

Castle current allocation 46, my system 55, most used 34.

Kyneton current allocation 43, my system 45, most used 37.

Maryborough current allocation 46, my allocation 56, most used 41.

So straight away the top 4 teams have challenges with then exception of Golden Square who prove that it is achievable to still be strong on less points. The bottom teams have licence to do whatever they like without restraint.

The obvious weakness would be if a team spent time down the bottom and then became very strong it would take a long time to reel them back in but you could easily make a rule that if you finish top 3 in three consecutive seasons your points are automatically adjusted to the top three average.

If that system was used for long enough things would find a level.

 

[Del28562]

You could give Maryborough and kangaroo flat a 1000 points and unlimited salary and they still wouldn't attract a grade players

 

[ringo1]

You could give Maryborough and kangaroo flat a 1000 points and unlimited salary and they still wouldn't attract a grade players

Until there is a good culture it really doesn't matter what you do...fix that first and then some progress can occur.

 

[Forest St End]

You could give Maryborough and kangaroo flat a 1000 points and unlimited salary and they still wouldn't attract a grade players

Yep, you’ve got to tighten up the other end to see any results.

 

[evrock]

Until there is a good culture it really doesn't matter what you do...fix that first and then some progress can occur.

Can’t fix a culture until you can win - and for Maryborough that will cost $400k a year for 5 years just to be competitive- not to win a flag

 

[ringo1]

Can’t fix a culture until you can win - and for Maryborough that will cost $400k a year for 5 years just to be competitive- not to win a flag

Culture is the first thing you fix..standards and expectations. I can assure you!

 

[Del28562]

Money can't buy culture, needs to be right through the club, starts with the president, I would use the analogy of everyone walking the same way around the pool (whirlpool) if someone jumps in they should be swept up with the momentum, that's what these clubs need to start with

 

[AlburyE]

Has anything been put in the Advertiser about the passing of Brian Walsh? (I am wondering if I missed it). Brian was an outstanding player (youngest ever Michelson winner at 18), had a very successful VFL career with Carlton and then Essendon, coached 3 BFNL clubs with premierships at Golden Square, got Sandhurst to the 1985 grand final, also coached in the strong Ovens & Murray league and I think White Hills as well, was a Bendigo league football commentator for many years and the father of two outstanding sportspersons in their own right. Brian also made the news with difficult personal issues which he seemed to overcome.

All of the above surely warrant an article on his passing in the Advertiser. If there has been one I apologise. If there has not been one there should be.

 

[AlburyE]

Has anything been put in the Advertiser about the passing of Brian Walsh? (I am wondering if I missed it). Brian was an outstanding player (youngest ever Michelson winner at 18), had a very successful VFL career with Carlton and then Essendon, coached 3 BFNL clubs with premierships at Golden Square, got Sandhurst to the 1985 grand final, also coached in the strong Ovens & Murray league and I think White Hills as well, was a Bendigo league football commentator for many years and the father of two outstanding sportspersons in their own right. Brian also made the news with difficult personal issues which he seemed to overcome.

All of the above surely warrant an article on his passing in the Advertiser. If there has been one I apologise. If there has not been one there should be.

Brian was also the captain-coached of Werribee in the VFA and the winner of a best and fairest award for that club. A lot of achievements.

 

[Forest St End]

Has anything been put in the Advertiser about the passing of Brian Walsh? (I am wondering if I missed it). Brian was an outstanding player (youngest ever Michelson winner at 18), had a very successful VFL career with Carlton and then Essendon, coached 3 BFNL clubs with premierships at Golden Square, got Sandhurst to the 1985 grand final, also coached in the strong Ovens & Murray league and I think White Hills as well, was a Bendigo league football commentator for many years and the father of two outstanding sportspersons in their own right. Brian also made the news with difficult personal issues which he seemed to overcome.

All of the above surely warrant an article on his passing in the Advertiser. If there has been one I apologise. If there has not been one there should be.

I’m sure Westy will be on it now you’ve posted on here.

Haven’t seen anything from 3CCC either which is a bit odd.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The biggest question alone that needs to be answered is do they want an even where as best as possible any team is a chance to win in the day or do they want a comp with the best teams being of a higher standard and the lower teams being easybeats yesterday seemed to be a perfect advertisement between the best and the worst for all the talk going on at the minute the only way possible to even the comp up is reduce salary cap and points allocated to the top 5 teams rather than increase the bottom teams that will dilute the standard of the comp but there is no other way at all to give the others a chance to catch up

What is now being seen is the result of a points system which highly benefits larger communities where larger numbers of juniors are drawn through secondary schools and comps which cater for the drop-off parent .
The one who drops the child off , meets with the teams other mums at the coffee shop for a skinny latte, before wondering the shops buying designer jeans and then heading back to pick up the child.

 

[Post padding]

What is now being seen is the result of a points system which highly benefits larger communities where larger numbers of juniors are drawn through secondary schools and comps which cater for the drop-off parent .
The one who drops the child off , meets with the teams other mums at the coffee shop for a skinny latte, before wondering the shops buying designer jeans and then heading back to pick up the child.

So are you saying the points system favours Single Parent Families ?

 

[MortlockWatcher]

What is now being seen is the result of a points system which highly benefits larger communities where larger numbers of juniors are drawn through secondary schools and comps which cater for the drop-off parent .
The one who drops the child off , meets with the teams other mums at the coffee shop for a skinny latte, before wondering the shops buying designer jeans and then heading back to pick up the child.

and the same mums say "you did well today" to their kids while having NFI what happened.

 

[Del28562]

Not sure that's true across the state roar, yes in the bfl, but if you look across to the gv, all shepp teams are down the bottom, Warragul and Drouin struggle in footy despite growing rapidly.

I think the system favours the top teams to stay there longer, I'm not sure you can blame the range rover, latte sipping yoga pants mums for this. I'd think it favours clubs who put a larger emphasis on their juniors and have done so for a long time. Looking across the state, Echuca, kyabram, Leongatha, colac, kerang, maffra, even yarrawonga place an emphasis on their juniors to create quality senior players to fill the void and then top up with some recruits to help out, you need a core 15+ senior footballers who are locals or being at the club a long time and to promote juniors into these systems, with one or two players to fit in. Strath, square, gizzy and sandhurst all use this method. You can't grab 10 guys and expect instant results, maine might see the hard work pay-off in 2025 for finals

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Not sure that's true across the state roar, yes in the bfl, but if you look across to the gv, all shepp teams are down the bottom, Warragul and Drouin struggle in footy despite growing rapidly.

I think the system favours the top teams to stay there longer, I'm not sure you can blame the range rover, latte sipping yoga pants mums for this. I'd think it favours clubs who put a larger emphasis on their juniors and have done so for a long time. Looking across the state, Echuca, kyabram, Leongatha, colac, kerang, maffra, even yarrawonga place an emphasis on their juniors to create quality senior players to fill the void and then top up with some recruits to help out, you need a core 15+ senior footballers who are locals or being at the club a long time and to promote juniors into these systems, with one or two players to fit in. Strath, square, gizzy and sandhurst all use this method. You can't grab 10 guys and expect instant results, maine might see the hard work pay-off in 2025 for finals

Because Shepp teams , United and Swans, went for broke , literally , to win flags just prior to the points salary cap system coming in and the system has about 5% retention rate . Whilst Shepp bears had the benefit of gaining 3 1 pointers who would others wise been 3 pointers .
Ky and Echuca on the other hand have dominated . Whilst since they shut down the Benalla junior comp and sent those kids into the wang comp , Benalla have struggled and both Wang sides have been improved .
Smaller communities like Tat , Rochy are fighting way above their weight with their hands tied behind their back .

 

[ROOTA#6]

Kyneton to hold a meeting to discuss its future

 

[Forest St End]

Kyneton to hold a meeting to discuss its future

Not just a meeting but a public meeting.

They are obviously planning something big.

 

[ROOTA#6]

Not just a meeting but a public meeting.

They are obviously planning something big.

Or they want to hear as many ideas a possible

 

[Del28562]

I think it'd be to get a gauge on the travel and match payments required to play bfl, they've got juniors playing riddell with far less travel, do they lose these guys to riddell clubs in under 18s, do they lose locals for less travel and the natch payments to entice recruits to play bfl is that sustainable? They haven't played finals for a fair while