Best batting deck in Australia?

[dr nick]

I would say Adelaide, thats why ive always thought Lehmann and Siddons pile on the runs and break first class records whilst the poor schmucks in Sydney have pitches which are far dodgier, and go to the pack late in the game.

and quick look at the stats confirms my suspicions:

Overall Test batting average at each ground (cf. 4th Innings).

Adelaide: 35.10 (30.2)
Bellerieve: 34.83 (33.1)
WACA: 32.40 (30.7)
Gabba: 31.68 (29.8)
MCG: 29.48 (28.0)
SCG: 29.30 (26.3)

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Have to agree with you there.

 

[Ghostwriter]

Good batting deck coupled with short boundaries makes it easier to score runs, but if your logic is followed re records then i suppose you will take Hookesys 100 of 43 balls off him too.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by jozeph
Good batting deck coupled with short boundaries makes it easier to score runs, but if your logic is followed re records then i suppose you will take Hookesys 100 of 43 balls off him too.

who said anything about taking records off people? each to their own. It's easier to take wickets bowling spin in India than England. At the end of the day its all about winning cricket matches on the chosen oval and records are a consequence of that. But thats why SA'ns feature heavily in the runs lists but not so much in the bowling side of things.

Ive always thought this, but its the first time ive checked on the stats.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by nicko18
I would say Adelaide, thats why ive always thought Lehmann and Siddons pile on the runs and break first class records whilst the poor schmucks in Sydney have pitches which are far dodgier, and go to the pack late in the game.

Sydney's a road.

The only reason why NSW batsmen aren't breaking Shield records is that their batsmen are given armchair rides into the national side.

 

[dr nick]

Re: Re: Best batting deck in Australia?

Originally posted by DaveW
Sydney's a road.

The only reason why NSW batsmen aren't breaking Shield records is that their batsmen are given armchair rides into the national side.

Historically no. These are not shield stats with key players missing, these are test stats. SCG pitches break up badly, and turn prodigeously in the 3rd + 4th innings.

NSW batsman are never given armchair rides into the national side. The richest talent pool will always have the greater representation

The quandry would be, do you pick a South Australian averaging 35.10 before a NSW'man averaging 29.30? Theoretically they are the same (you'd know if youve done statistics)

 

[DaveW]

Re: Re: Re: Best batting deck in Australia?

Originally posted by nicko18
The quandry would be, do you pick a South Australian averaging 35.10 before a NSW'man averaging 29.30? Theoretically they are the same (you'd know if youve done statistics)

Yes. Because players play half, not all, their matches on their home ground.

For further reason why you'd pick the South Aussie first:

Michael Bevan
first class average: 56.88
test average: 29.07

Darren Lehmann
first class average: 56.91
test average: 49.75

 

[Darky]

Bellerive Freeway.

 

[dr nick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Best batting deck in Australia?

Originally posted by DaveW
Yes. Because players play half, not all, their matches on their home ground.

For further reason why you'd pick the South Aussie first:

Michael Bevan
first class average: 56.88
test average: 29.07

Darren Lehmann
first class average: 56.91
test average: 49.75

smartarse.

yeah i know, but the theory is sound. SA play 5 matches in Adelaide, and NSW play 1. Conversly 1-5 for the SCG.

About Bevan... typical anti NSW bias More NSW players are pigeon holed in both forms of the game than anyone else. Taylor, Waugh, Slater, Bevan are some i can think of right now .

seriously though, some people are still believing of the fact he can't play the short ball. May have been true in 1997, but you dont go on to average 60+ since then in the toughest domestic comp in the world without being able to play anything short.

IMO Bevan should be considered for the sub continent. I think there are better options for the decks out here though.

 

[dr nick]

PS DaveW: Give us Lehmanns test average alongside Bevan before he was given an armchair ride over Mark Waugh.

I think you'll find its closer to the Bevan mark, if not, lower.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by nicko18
PS DaveW: Give us Lehmanns test average alongside Bevan before he was given an armchair ride over Mark Waugh.

I think you'll find its closer to the Bevan mark, if not, lower.

Armchair ride? His prodigious run-scoring forced the selectors to prematurely retire an established 10-year player. I wouldn't call that an armchair ride.

I don't really see why I should just take one slice of Lehmann's test career to suit your argument either.

 

[The Floodbuster]

Originally posted by nicko18
I would say Adelaide, thats why ive always thought Lehmann and Siddons pile on the runs and break first class records whilst the poor schmucks in Sydney have pitches which are far dodgier, and go to the pack late in the game.

and quick look at the stats confirms my suspicions:

Overall Test batting average at each ground (cf. 4th Innings).

Adelaide: 35.10 (30.2)
Bellerieve: 34.83 (33.1)
WACA: 32.40 (30.7)
Gabba: 31.68 (29.8)
MCG: 29.48 (28.0)
SCG: 29.30 (26.3)

I think these figures are a credit to the Adelaide Oval curator Les Burdett. Adelaide Oval has seen some of the most exciting finishes to Test Matches over the years. In five days you can see the best of batting, fast bowling and the spinners on the last day and a half. Every year the Adelaide Test provides something, it just goes to show on your stats with the biggest scoring difference between innings on your stats.
My favourite venue to watch a test is in Adelaide, my favourite one day format would have to be the MCG or the WACA, the WACA for the run fest and quick bowling and simply the MCG for the way the Victorians crowd the MCG and bring the Crowd into the game. There used to be nothing like seeing DJ or O'Donnell coming to the crease and being lifted by the hometown crowd, as much as I despise Victorians they are pretty passionate for their own.
Also a bit harsh on Jamie Siddons and his records, considering he played a fair bit of cricket in Victoria. Lehmann simply has a great record as he was never accepted into the Australian team when he was scoring 1000's year after year, I think If Mark Waugh or Steve Waugh were left to play as much first-class cricket as Lehmann they may have had the chance to also break records.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by DaveW
Armchair ride? His prodigious run-scoring forced the selectors to prematurely retire an established 10-year player. I wouldn't call that an armchair ride.

I don't really see why I should just take one slice of Lehmann's test career to suit your argument either.

you are only avoiding the issue because it doesnt suit you, but it is the crux of the argument. Lehmann was given the armchair ride at the expense of Bevan. Now you eluded to Lehmanns better test average, hardly justification.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Re: Re: Re: Best batting deck in Australia?

Originally posted by nicko18
The quandry would be, do you pick a South Australian averaging 35.10 before a NSW'man averaging 29.30? Theoretically they are the same (you'd know if youve done statistics)

Going on that theory, the opposite should apply for the bowlers. ie. Pick Rofe or Tait over that dud in Bracken.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by nicko18
you are only avoiding the issue because it doesnt suit you, but it is the crux of the argument. Lehmann was given the armchair ride at the expense of Bevan. Now you eluded to Lehmanns better test average, hardly justification.

Not justification, vindication.

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by nicko18
I would say Adelaide, thats why ive always thought Lehmann and Siddons pile on the runs and break first class records whilst the poor schmucks in Sydney have pitches which are far dodgier, and go to the pack late in the game.

and quick look at the stats confirms my suspicions:

Overall Test batting average at each ground (cf. 4th Innings).

Adelaide: 35.10 (30.2)
Bellerieve: 34.83 (33.1)
WACA: 32.40 (30.7)
Gabba: 31.68 (29.8)
MCG: 29.48 (28.0)
SCG: 29.30 (26.3)

Well done Sherlock.
Your mind must work at a million miles an hour. It is hilarious that you had to look at stats to prove your theory.

 

[ZimZum]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Best batting deck in Australia?

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Going on that theory, the opposite should apply for the bowlers. ie. Pick Rofe or Tait over that dud in Bracken.

I have thought that all along. Bowlers that bowl on a flat pitch, and can take regular wickets, needs to be taken into consideration. Tassie and Redback bowlers don't get help from pitches, and the ball hardly ever swings like in the other states.

 

[dr nick]

Re: Re: Best batting deck in Australia?

Originally posted by ZimZum
It is hilarious that you had to look at stats to prove your theory.

What do you do, pull them out your arse?

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by nicko18
you are only avoiding the issue because it doesnt suit you, but it is the crux of the argument. Lehmann was given the armchair ride at the expense of Bevan. Now you eluded to Lehmanns better test average, hardly justification.

Bevan had already had his chance by this stage.

Lehmann's test career before his "armchair ride" was all at number six where he only averaged about 29 from memory.

At number four though he avearages 84.

Lehmann should not bat at six but at four.

With S Waughs retirement there's the option for Boof to go to four Martyn at tive and Katich at six

Then the top order is

LH
LH
RH
LH
RH
LH

Would be happy to swap Langer fro a RH to give us the perfect balance

 

[ZimZum]

Re: Re: Re: Best batting deck in Australia?

Originally posted by nicko18
What do you do, pull them out your arse?

No.

Just been watching the cricket alot longer than you whippersnapper.

 

[Jars458]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Best batting deck in Australia?

Originally posted by ZimZum
No.

Just been watching the cricket alot longer than you whippersnapper.

Patronisation. A key ingredient to any quality debate.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by Jars458
Bevan had already had his chance by this stage.

Thats what i mean by pigeonholed. I'm glad Lehmann got the chance. My gut feel was always that Lehmann, given a chance again, would pile on the runs, and good for him he has done that, and lucky for him he wasnt pigeonholed.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by nicko18
Thats what i mean by pigeonholed. I'm glad Lehmann got the chance. My gut feel was always that Lehmann, given a chance again, would pile on the runs, and good for him he has done that, and lucky for him he wasnt pigeonholed.

Fair enough. Bevan's short ball problem whether real or not has meant he will never be given another chance.

In my view he should still be ahead of Clarke, especially for a tour of the sub-continent. Have a soft spot for Bevo as he got two centuries in his frist two games for SA back when Acadamy players were allowed to play for SA.