Best Forward After Lance Franklin

[Lunchtime]

It's a very narrow margin depending on what you want, Riewoldt played a lot further up the ground and sacrificed a lot of his own gameplay just to benefit the team, while also being a highlight in some truly woeful Richmond sides - Hawkins though, was clutch as hell in close games + finals and the Cats don't win the 2011 Grand Final without him. I haven't watched enough of Kennedy and Cameron to comment on them.

The only knock on Hawkins in Finals was his goal average per game (1.7) and his accuracy (49.1%), those two areas could of been better.

 

[Mr Meow]

Finals

Kennedy
Games: 17
Goals: 40
Behinds: 26
No Score: 13
Shots on Goal: 79
Goal Accuracy: 50.6%
Possessions: 203
Goal Average: 2.3
Possessions Average: 11.9
Goal Assist: 5
Goal Assist Average: 0.2

Riewoldt
Games: 16
Goals: 33
Behinds: 21
No Score: 6
Shots on Goal: 60
Goal Accuracy: 55.0%
Possessions: 162
Goal Average: 2.0
Possessions Average: 10.1
Goal Assist: 7
Goal Assist Average: 0.4

Cameron
Games: 17
Goals: 33
Behinds: 31
No Score: 9
Shots on Goal: 73
Goal Accuracy: 45.2%
Possessions: 231
Goal Average: 1.9
Possessions Average: 13.5
Goal Assist: 10
Goal Assist Average: 0.5

 Hawkins
Games: 32
Goals: 56
Behinds: 46
No Score: 12
Shots on Goal: 114
Goal Accuracy: 49.1%
Possessions: 380
Goal Average: 1.7
Possessions Average: 11.8
Goal Assist: 18
Goal Assist Average: 0.5


No score includes: out of bounds/out on the full, not making distance etc

Hawkins comes out slightly lower on combined goals/goal assist average in finals with 2.2 per game (the others are basically identical at 2.4-2.5). We have to remember though, Hawkins played more finals as a kid and veteran. He played a whopping 32 finals spread over a 14 year period. For at least half of those, he was really our only decent key forward. The slight average dip makes sense. Note the spike in those averages for the 2011 and 2022 finals series when we had a functional forward line.

 

[Mr Meow]

The only knock on Hawkins in Finals was his goal average per game (1.7) and his accuracy (49.1%), those two areas could of been better.

Mostly a by-product of the 6 finals he played as a kid 2009-2010, totaling 5 goals.

He had a 2 goal per final average for the rest of his career.

 

[Handsuper47]

Hawkins comes out slightly lower on combined goals/goal assist average in finals with 2.2 per game (the others are basically identical at 2.4-2.5). We have to remember though, Hawkins played more finals as a kid and veteran. He played a whopping 32 finals spread over a 14 year period. For at least half of those, he was really our only decent key forward. The slight average dip makes sense. Note the spike in those averages for the 2011 and 2022 finals series when we had a functional forward line.

I think if you're gonna make a point about Hawkins being your only decent key forward, after Richo retired in 2009 Riewoldt had to share most of the forward line with Tyrone Vickery, and being cellar dwellers we didn't exactly have the best forward entries and yet Jack still won Coleman Medals anyway.

 

[Mr Meow]

I think if you're gonna make a point about Hawkins being your only decent key forward, after Richo retired in 2009 Riewoldt had to share most of the forward line with Tyrone Vickery, and being cellar dwellers we didn't exactly have the best forward entries and yet Jack still won Coleman Medals anyway.

Fair enough, but find me examples of one man forward lines in the modern era dominating finals series after finals series. More commonly they just get double or triple teamed, and you need smalls to lift their weight (Geelong had terrible small forwards for about 7 finals series in a row).

 

[Lunchtime]

Mostly a by-product of the 6 finals he played as a kid 2009-2010, totaling 5 goals.

He had a 2 goal per final average for the rest of his career.

He didnt average 2 goals per game for the rest of his Finals matches, it comes out as 1.9 = 51 goals from 26 finals matches from 2011 onwards.

 

[Mr Meow]

He didnt average 2 goals per game for the rest of his Finals matches, it comes out as 1.9 = 51 goals from 26 finals matches from 2011 onwards.

1.96

I assume you know how rounding works.

Riewoldt played all but one of his finals aged 24-31 years old (prime years).

Hawkins played a whopping 19 finals outside of that range (younger than 24 or older than 31).

 

[Lunchtime]

1.96

I assume you know how rounding works.

I dont round. I go by the exact figure thats given to me. 1.9 goals per game is still slightly short of two (2.0) goals per game.

 

[Mr Meow]

I dont round. I go by the exact figure thats given to me. 1.9 goals per game is still slightly short of two (2.0) goals per game.

Then it's 1.96 if it's exact. You never round down from 0.6. You really should know that. Disappointing from you.

 

[Lunchtime]

Then it's 1.96 if it's exact. You never round down from 0.6. You really should know that. Disappointing from you.

Im just giving you the exact figures. Im not making them up.

 

[Lunchtime]

1.96

I assume you know how rounding works.

Riewoldt played all but one of his finals aged 24-31 years old (prime years).

Hawkins played a whopping 19 finals outside of that range (younger than 24 or older than 31).

I'm not sure what Riewoldt has got to do with it. I am just pointing out that Hawkins had a low goal average per game in Finals.

You then said he averaged 2 goals per game from 2011 onwards, which he didnt. The numbers say it. I'm not making any of it up.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm not sure what Riewoldt has got to do with it. I am just pointing out that Hawkins had a low goal average per game in Finals.

You then said he averaged 2 goals per game from 2011 onwards, which he didnt. The numbers say it. I'm not making any of it up.

He averaged 1.96 goals in finals from that point onwards. It's disingenuous to round numbers down and it's a bit embarrassing I have to tell you this. Anyway we can move on now.

A "low average"? 1.96 vs 2.06 for Riewoldt once we exclude Hawkins finals as a kid.

How many close finals was Riewoldt one of the best players on the ground in? Certainly a few less than Hawkins, who was dominant in swaying the 2011 grand final and delivered 2 goals in the low scoring classic GF 2 years earlier.

 

[Mr Meow]

Im just giving you the exact figures. Im not making them up.

1.9 is not the exact figure. 1.96 is. If you're going to say we round down from 1.96 or even 1.99, then it's best to use the full number.

 

[Lunchtime]

He averaged 1.96 goals in finals from that point onwards. It's disingenuous to round numbers down and it's a bit embarrassing I have to tell you this. Anyway we can move on now.

Embarrassing? That's very harsh.

 

[Mr Meow]

Embarrassing? That's very harsh.

Let's just use the full numbers to save confusion. Hawkins averaged 1.96 goals in finals once he entered his prime years.

Hawkins averaged more goal assists than Riewoldt in finals, even if you do include all the ones he played as a kid. 0.5625 (full number) for Hawkins, 0.4375 (full number) for Riewoldt. He was more of a creator.