Opinion Best side 2018

[winty]

the overemphasis on pressure for forwards is a dumb fad. if you win the ball and kick the goal you have no need for defensive pressure. If you have good defensive pressure you still need the skills to do something with the ball once you win it. Having 4 defensive forwards and only two attacking forwards is utterly stupid. By that argument we should only ever have played one of SJ and Chapman in the team and probably wouldnt have any flags as a result.

Defensive forwards are only defensive when they don't have the ball. When they have the ball they become attacking forwards. Would much rather have forwards putting pressure on trying to win the ball back than forwards just standing around watching their opponents waltz the ball out of their defensive 50 like we have over the last 2-3 years.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Our best team is strong on paper, we just need to make sure we make the most of 2018, time to strike is now!

 

[ShaunWDT]

Kelly is a half forward/outside mid.

Cockatoo needs to be as well.

Kelly's best footy is as an inside mid, he's just quick out of the stoppage so gets outside ball.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

the overemphasis on pressure for forwards is a dumb fad. if you win the ball and kick the goal you have no need for defensive pressure. If you have good defensive pressure you still need the skills to do something with the ball once you win it. Having 4 defensive forwards and only two attacking forwards is utterly stupid. By that argument we should only ever have played one of SJ and Chapman in the team and probably wouldnt have any flags as a result.

Pressure cooks ham.

 

[winty]

Pressure cooks ham.

Pressure can also turn coal into diamonds.

 

[cynical]

I am very surprised that in a discussion relating to the best 22 that Blacks name would get a mention. I'd still be surprised even if we were talking best 30.

Considering the other 2 are likely to be injured Black fills the role. I think he is a spud also.

 

[Seeds]

Pressure creates goals, in a close game it's the difference between a win and a loss.

Marking the ball, kicking truly, winning the ball in a contest creates far far more goals then defensive pressure. How did we go kicking goals in the first final when we went wirh a defensive forward approach?

 

[ShaunWDT]

Marking the ball, kicking truly, winning the ball in a contest creates far far more goals then defensive pressure. How did we go kicking goals in the first final when we went wirh a defensive forward approach?

You gotta get the ball in the forward line first, we lost that game in the midfield gave up double the centre clearances and they had around 20 more inside 50's.

Scored out of 50% of our entries which is what we did when we smashed Sydney so that wasn't the issue.

 

[Seeds]

in this day and age doesn't a forward need to both? Surely they aren't mutually exclusive traits? Cockatoo does both.

Both is definately better ofcourse. But if you have a choice of one its not defensive pressure i would take. Defensive pressure doesnt require much skill. Just intensity, stamina and upper body strength.

 

[DanA]

the overemphasis on pressure for forwards is a dumb fad. if you win the ball and kick the goal you have no need for defensive pressure. If you have good defensive pressure you still need the skills to do something with the ball once you win it. Having 4 defensive forwards and only two attacking forwards is utterly stupid. By that argument we should only ever have played one of SJ and Chapman in the team and probably wouldnt have any flags as a result.

You're rewriting history, both those players provided defensive pressure in addition to finding plenty of it. In the years Stevie J kicked 50+ goals he still had 2.7 tackles per game and 20+ possessions. Likewise in the years, Chappy had 35+ goals he had 20+ possessions and 3.5 tackles per game. In those years they clearly were playing forward, clearly provided significantly more defensive pressure and found a lot more of the ball than Menzel who averaged 1.3 tackles per game and 11.5 possessions....it's chalk and cheese.

There is a baseline level of pressure that needs to be provided. Menzel falls well below that level compromising the side. We can do that a little bit but I'd want to compensate for that with everybody else bar Hawkins being above average in that area.

 

[DanA]

Both is definately better ofcourse. But if you have a choice of one its not defensive pressure i would take. Defensive pressure doesnt require much skill. Just intensity, stamina and upper body strength.

I think there is a tipping point.

You need players to kick goals but there comes a point where the lack of pressure hurts more. When we had Stanley, Hawkins, Motlop and Menzel I thought the lack of defensive pressure was severely detrimental.

 

[CatRiot]

Way too early for this... but having a stab.

B: Bews, Taylor, Kolodjashnij
HB: Tuohy, Henderson, Stewart
C: Kelly, J Selwood, Duncan
HF: Ablett, Buzza, Cockatoo
F: Crameri, Hawkins, Menzel
Fol: Smith, Dangerfield, S Selwood
Int: Menegola, Fogarty, Guthrie, Parfitt

Emrg: Parsons, McCarthy, Thurlow, Blicavs, Zuthrie, Gregson, House, Miers, Constable

 

[Seeds]

I think there is a tipping point.

You need players to kick goals but there comes a point where the lack of pressure hurts more. When we had Stanley, Hawkins, Motlop and Menzel I thought the lack of defensive pressure was severely detrimental.

i agree you need both and missing cockatoo and mcarthy exposed us a little bit last year. Although the far greater problem was our poor disposal. We would of won the flag if our mids could hit targets like other sides. A forward line with only 1 or 2 attacking options and four defensive forwards is clearly the wrong way around.

 

[Seeds]

You gotta get the ball in the forward line first, we lost that game in the midfield gave up double the centre clearances and they had around 20 more inside 50's.

Scored out of 50% of our entries which is what we did when we smashed Sydney so that wasn't the issue.

the ball gets into the forward line as a result of your own team kicking/handballing it in there 95 percent of the time. So no forwards dont have to get the ball off an opponent first. Fowards just have to mark the ball or win the contested ball. Do that enough and tackling and applying defensive pressure becomes redundant.

 

[Seeds]

You're rewriting history, both those players provided defensive pressure in addition to finding plenty of it. In the years Stevie J kicked 50+ goals he still had 2.7 tackles per game and 20+ possessions. Likewise in the years, Chappy had 35+ goals he had 20+ possessions and 3.5 tackles per game. In those years they clearly were playing forward, clearly provided significantly more defensive pressure and found a lot more of the ball than Menzel who averaged 1.3 tackles per game and 11.5 possessions....it's chalk and cheese.

There is a baseline level of pressure that needs to be provided. Menzel falls well below that level compromising the side. We can do that a little bit but I'd want to compensate for that with everybody else bar Hawkins being above average in that area.

Guarding space and running defensively is most of what forward line pressure is about. Johnson and Chapman were awful at it. Their tackle count was a little higher (but still not great) cos they spent more time in the mids then Menz and mids rack up tackles being second and third man in the contest. SJ and Chapman are two of my favs and significantly underrated on here. But running down defenders with a defensive tackle happened extremely rarely.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Way too early for this... but having a stab.

B: Bews, Taylor, Kolodjashnij
HB: Tuohy, Henderson, Stewart
C: Kelly, J Selwood, Duncan
HF: Ablett, Buzza, Cockatoo
F: Crameri, Hawkins, Menzel
Fol: Smith, Dangerfield, S Selwood
Int: Menegola, Fogarty, Guthrie, Parfitt

Emrg: McCarthy, Thurlow, Blicavs, Zuthrie, Gregson, House, Miers, Constable

Not a chance in the world Fogarty plays ahead of Blicavs. In fact,
Not a chance in the world Blicavs isn't in the first half dozen picked.

 

[Cataholic]

Not a chance in the world Fogarty plays ahead of Blicavs. In fact,
Not a chance in the world Blicavs isn't in the first half dozen picked.

Because you think that’s how it is, or because he deserves it?

 

[Vdubs]

You're rewriting history, both those players provided defensive pressure in addition to finding plenty of it. In the years Stevie J kicked 50+ goals he still had 2.7 tackles per game and 20+ possessions. Likewise in the years, Chappy had 35+ goals he had 20+ possessions and 3.5 tackles per game. In those years they clearly were playing forward, clearly provided significantly more defensive pressure and found a lot more of the ball than Menzel who averaged 1.3 tackles per game and 11.5 possessions....it's chalk and cheese.

There is a baseline level of pressure that needs to be provided. Menzel falls well below that level compromising the side. We can do that a little bit but I'd want to compensate for that with everybody else bar Hawkins being above average in that area.

Great post.
I would still like to see Menzel line up as permanent FF.
Using his strengths to their max- he is quick on the lead, a great mark, and a nice kick for goal.
He gets a game in my team every week in that spot. I could see 50-60 goals easily.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Because you think that’s how it is, or because he deserves it?

Both.

He's the most versatile bloke in the league. I personally think they'll try him in a key defence role This year. Replacing Domsy. That said, He can ruck, he can play a sport a tagger. He can play as a wingman. He's a good player. A b&f winner and he'll play 22 games again.

 

[CatRiot]

Not a chance in the world Fogarty plays ahead of Blicavs. In fact,
Not a chance in the world Blicavs isn't in the first half dozen picked.

That's my Best 22... Not necessarily what the MC and CS think is best 22.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Great post.
I would still like to see Menzel line up as permanent FF.
Using his strengths to their max- he is quick on the lead, a great mark, and a nice kick for goal.
He gets a game in my team every week in that spot. I could see 50-60 goals easily.

Great post

 

[CatRiot]

Both.

He's the most versatile bloke in the league. I personally think they'll try him in a key defence role This year. Replacing Domsy. That said, He can ruck, he can play a sport a tagger. He can play as a wingman. He's a good player. A b&f winner and he'll play 22 games again.

I think he is a good player, but he needs a new role... Not sure where tbh.

 

[DanA]

Great post.
I would still like to see Menzel line up as permanent FF.
Using his strengths to their max- he is quick on the lead, a great mark, and a nice kick for goal.
He gets a game in my team every week in that spot. I could see 50-60 goals easily.

I'm with you on that one. But I'm still leaning towards one of Crameri and Menzel.

FB: Bews Henderson Kolodjashnij
HB: Touhy Taylor Stewart
C: Kelly Duncan S.Selwood
HF: Ablett Hawkins Cockatoo
FF: Fogarty Menzel Parfitt
R: Smith Dangerfield J.Selwood
IC: Blicavs, C.Guthrie, Menegola, Thurlow

 

[Ratcat]

I think there is a tipping point.

You need players to kick goals but there comes a point where the lack of pressure hurts more. When we had Stanley, Hawkins, Motlop and Menzel I thought the lack of defensive pressure was severely detrimental.

Rather forwards take care of score board pressure firstly.

 

[CatRiot]

Way too early for this... but having a stab.

B: Bews, Taylor, Kolodjashnij
HB: Tuohy, Henderson, Stewart
C: Kelly, J Selwood, Duncan
HF: Ablett, Buzza, Cockatoo
F: Crameri, Hawkins, Menzel
Fol: Smith, Dangerfield, S Selwood
Int: Menegola, Fogarty, Guthrie, Parfitt

Emrg: Parsons, McCarthy, Thurlow, Blicavs, Zuthrie, Gregson, House, Miers, Constable

Fogarty was averaging 25 touches, +9 tackles, +1.3 goals a game in TAC and similar at Champs... That tackle pressure is way higher than Parsons, McCarthy or Gregson... I can see him slotting in the seniors very early next season.