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Resource Beyond the "66 Game" Rebuild
- Thread starter FlowersByIrene
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- Apr 20, 2006
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He had about 3 other really strong seasons. Unfortunately for him his body sort of gave up
on him during his prime. Still managed an unbelievable season in 17.
His career is very similar to someone like Cripps to this point imo.
- Aug 22, 2020
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People willfully took what I was saying with one of my previous posts out of context; players like Durdin, Caroll, and (perhaps) Motlop were 'reach' selections because they were taken in years where our draft was compromised. In other words, if we had have made more of our draft position (something I believe SOS would have managed) we most likely would have drafted different players. We are arguably relying on 'said' players to perform above their draft status.
Also; every preseason we make observations about players we think are about to have break-out seasons (some optimistically) and also those who we are less convinced about. The latter tend to outweigh the former and the raw numbers never match the optimism. I don't see what's so controversial about saying that everything needs to go right for the Blues, both on-field and in terms of the next few trade/draft periods.
Also; every preseason we make observations about players we think are about to have break-out seasons (some optimistically) and also those who we are less convinced about. The latter tend to outweigh the former and the raw numbers never match the optimism. I don't see what's so controversial about saying that everything needs to go right for the Blues, both on-field and in terms of the next few trade/draft periods.
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- Banned
- #1,330
I think Murphy was pretty bloody good his whole career (minus the last 2 season when he should have been shown the door). Consistent and one of the best at our club (not too many to beat in that division though). Had 1 or 2 elite seasons (AA calibre) and as you said a number of other really good years. He was much better than gibbs who never really reached his potential, especially as a mid.
Cripps is a good call and thats my worry with him - first 4 or 5 years were elite but then the last 2 have been really poor. im not sure he'll get back to anywhere near his best and be an average midfielder with some good games but not many. 6 year contract could be a burden especially if he cant find a 2nd string like playing forward.
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #1,331
Where did I claim he was a champion?
would be interesting to see how many of 2011 and the current list would make into a Merged 23.
- Apr 20, 2006
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I’d say both Murphy and Cripps have had 3 outstanding years and have both peaked at a similar level. I pray Cripps gets his mojo back and doesn’t become a whipping boy like Murphy did.
JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
- May 31, 2012
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Judd > Cripps
Murphy< Walsh ?
Gibbs < Cerra?
Robbo < Hewett ?
Carrazzo < Kennedy ?
Simmo > Lob / Newnes
Kreuzer > TDK/Pittonet
Bell Armfield McLean Ed Curnow
Dow Setterfield blah blah blah
Forwards
Harry > Waite
Charlie > Sentata
Anyone < Garlett
Anyone < Betts
SOJ < Walker
Backs
Weitering > Jamison?
Saad < Yarran
Williams = Scotland ?
Bower < than anyone
Duigan/Laidler / Tuohey ......< Stocker / Kemp = dont think so!
Key difference between the sides is Harry and Depth.
Kemp| Stocker | Fisher | Cuningham are all higher quality players than the bare cupboard back then - we hope
However against that
Carlton ( back then ) had genuine leg speed on the outside- unmatched by any other side in the competition - Armfield/Garlett/Yarran type speed very rare commodities - got to remember that Carlton was the only side that could compete head to head against Geelong at its best the side (literally) blew teams off teh park - our current line up is nowhere near that attacking capability - yet
Carlton back in 2012 was very very very fixable - Ratten copped a year of horror injuries a year of scumbaggery from leaks to press about how Ratten wasnt up the the job form inside urgers in Carlton pushing for Malthouse - in teh end and I know from inside board numbers - teh Baord was 50/50 and ultimately Swann + so called benefactor swayed Kernahan.
injury toll for 21012 was horrendous people forget- starting with that infamous roided up Essendon game seeing Carazzo have his shoulder smashed - not 6 months after Carlton had destroyed Essendon in a final - they put up a roided side on field that was bigger/stronger/faster than any side in the competition- until half way through the season they started to blow their hamstrings - all of them.
The current list has a chance of building a very strong genuine contending side over the next 2-3 years - that is where we are right now.
IF the coaches can get a game plan that is competitive working week in week out.
Metalcrusher
A God Amongst The People
- Banned
- #1,336
For the 2011 part.
Having a look at the 18-22 age bracket in 2013 when Malthouse took over, versus the current group. These are the players where the improvement comes from.
2013: Menzel, Dylan Buckley, Lucas, Watson, Yarran, Temay, Bootsma, McCarthy, Mitchell, McInnes, Davies, Graham, Casboult, O'Keeffe, Bell, Cachia, Dale (17 players).
2022: LOB, Dow, Motlop, Cerra, TDK, Stocker, Carroll, Kemp, Walsh, Durdin, Parks, Philp, Honey, Akuei, Mirkov, Cottrell (16 players).
Not sure about you but there seems a large gulf between the abilities of those 2 groups( speculation about the current group obviously). That list under Malthouse was going nowhere with its best 2 players banged up and Yarran struggling with off field issues.
- Banned
- #1,338
There's a chance alot of the 2022 names turn out as bad as the 2013 players - im sure in 2013 we were comparing how much better they were than the 2004 list etc.
Admittedly Cerra and Walsh wont be shit players. LOB, Dow, TDK, Stocker, Kemp etc are still quite unproven qualities but you'd hope most turn out good players (stocker showing the most thus far). The others are all unknown quantities and im sure half wonk make it.
That 2013 list, there would have been real high hopes on Menzal, Lucas, Watson, Yarrran, Mitchell, McInnes, Graham etc - same as there are now with Dow, Motlop, TDK, Stocker, Kemp, Carroll, Durdin etc.
- Apr 20, 2006
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If you do the same thing for 2012 though you can probably add 5 really exciting prospects to that list.
thylacine60
Post-Human
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- #1,340
mcinnes............kill me............
JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
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Yes we have hopes about a lot of these players...
which is why I stated in my post
".....key difference between the side back then and today is #1 Harry and #2 'Depth' " - but the depth is unproven at this stage - what gives me confidence is the fact we have our own VFL team and we have actually put some investment into coaching depth as well...
Yes I did mention speculation with the current crop. Fills me with more optimism than most of the 2013 bunch, but time tells I guess.
- Nov 27, 2016
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I reckon
Carrazzo > Kennedy at that stage.
He started off fairly rough but was a very good mid before he got injured against a juiced up * outfit.
Kennedy could get there too, but 2011 was peak Carrazzo prior to injury.
thylacine60
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- #1,344
was gonna also suggest carrots covers kennedy on a brake......
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thylacine60
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JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
- May 31, 2012
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I'm enjoying reading people's best 22 and seeing Kennedy listed as an 'emergency' alongside McGovern...maybe Carlton supporters have become so used to watching skinny runts wearing the famous old jumper as to have forgotten what the CLub used to stand for - I've really enjoyed going through old videos on youtube and watching the teams from the 70/80's and 90's go about their business of destroying the opposition and it wasn't by being half stepping runts who ran in circles missed tackles and couldn't kick a ball to save their lives either...
as for Carrots as you say has Kennedy covered (at his peak) Carrots was a late bloomer and a competitor- Kennedy is much younger, better kick, has good a footy brain and can play forward / mid...but at the margin not as fast as Carrots.
- Nov 27, 2016
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I was comparing peak Carrots to current Kennedy. Probably not really a fair comparison as we don't know where Kennedy will end up.
I will say that Kennedy is coming from a much higher 'floor' than Carrots began at.
Kennedy is a natural footballer whereas Carrots was a butcher of the ball and had to work really hard to get to where he did.
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It's hard to compare a team that was more set in stone, decided and peaking against a team that is still verging on that.
Midfield.
Walsh - Judd. Won't be long and we will be comparing the two and arguing over who is better. A big call but I am confident.
Cripps - Murphy. At their best both the same quality but very different players however going into finals where that games can be hard physical slogs, give me Cripps.
Gibbs - Cerra. Gibbs was always a disappointment around this time. Malthouse somehow got him going and he played some good footy for a couple of seasons under he and Bolton for memory. His last season for us was really good, then to Adelaide and nothing much again. Cerra is already where Gibbs was most of his career and his best is yet to come at only 22.
Carrazzo - Hewett. Tough question. Lets see more of Hewett.
McLean - Kennedy. We spent good picks and coin to get Mclean who at best was handy but spent a lot of time in the VFL. Same with Kennedy but he's probably slightly better than McLean now and younger. Give me Kennedy.
Joseph - Curnow. It's Curnow.
Kreuzer - TDK. TDK is a younger version who is showing the potential to be able to go forward which is something Kreuzer lacked. IMO TDK will be a pretty comparable if not better ruck when he develops. If he grows into the player his talent suggests, TDK will be better but that could be a couple of years away but lets see.
Warnock - Pittonett for sure.
Then you have depth in our current list. Curnow, Dow, Carroll, Stocker, Setterfield. Something that 2011 list didn't have and why it fell over. I think we had Lucas as a reserve mid and whoever had been dropped, usually McLean. Midfield has a lot more depth. Miles better depth, it's bottom end in the best 22 is better, the top end could match that side but it had a very good top end. That side was all about Judd and Murphy, for the first time since 2000 we had two elite midfielders. Then we didn't again. We could have 1-4 next year if things go right. That's huge, potentially.
As for wings, 2011 was probably a little better thought we really didn't have definitive wingers for memory, it was shared by a few such as Scotland, Simpsons, Curnow, Robinson Armfield if my memory is right? Our current wings are still a work in progress. O'Brien, Philp, Newnes, Cerra, Carroll, Cuningham? Who's it going to be? Someone else?
Forward line.
Curnow and McKay v Waite and O'Hailpin. No contest.
Betts, Armfield, Walker, Garlett, Robinson and Ellard V Owies, Durdin, Martin, Motlop, Silvagni and Honey. Our current crop will be terrific but they are still developing. IMO will be better at the pressure side of things. That group in 2011 carried us a lot, it's kicked a lot of goals. The current group are very talented but lets see, they are very new.
Miles and miles ahead in talls. We had some good small and medium forwards which carried us in many games for our lack of tall forwards. Our young group of smalls has so much potential and IMO is going to be a more modern, pressure orientated group. But it's still developing, lets come back to this and the end of the season.
Defence
Weitering v Jamison. Weitering is the better player but Jamison was a decent full back.
Henderson v Young/McDonald. Henderson was pretty good, the other two are yet to prove themselves.
Plowman v Laidler. Same same. McGovern could be better.
Yarran v Saad. Both are/were pretty good when on.
Scotland v Docherty. At their best both are terrific, Docherty hasn't had the best luck it's fair to say.
Duigan v Williams. Williams probably if fit.
Thornton - Marchbank/McGovern.
I can see that our depth is a lot better than that side. A hell of a lot better. If Jones was still there then our talls are hands down miles ahead. Smalls and medium players are about the same.
Our quality is still developing so it's hard to say. On potential and where I think some of those guys can go as players, our current team goes past that side and that could be this year. This is going to be an interesting season and a season of rapid growth I am hoping.
Lets hope that our current side does what that old list couldn't. Fill it's own holes with quality players coming through. provide a steady stream of young players coming through in general. Provide genuine depth and injury cover. Not be too reliant on individuals. Bat deep in all areas. Become elite in the physical, pressure and defensive side of the game.
As for our 66 game rebuild... more like 161 game rebuild. It should be finished. We should be ready to go!
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